Brose S-Mag E01680-100 vs. -200: Real Hardware updates ?

[Christox]

Hi there,

I rode my first S-mag with endnumber -200 in the Levo.
After 4 S-mags this is the first motor which is comparable silent as the previous Alloy Drive S and also has no cracking sound from the sprag bearings at the first kilometers as the others partially had.

While the Specialized naming update 2.1 to 2.2 was more marketing due to previously implemented belt, firmware and an O-Ring on the spindle outside, i'm asking if the Brose -200 series has real improvements inside like more silent gear, better sprag bearings or something ?
Perhaps @Bearing Man has already opened a -200 S-Mag ?

Best regards,

Chris

 

[Bearing Man]

I have opened many 200 S-Mags. There are a few structural changes to the belt cover and body to try and stiffen it and stop noise from the electric motors armature, but that's about it. Sprags etc are all the same. Only other difference is a polymer drive belt. Noise can be subjective, as even the old motors had large variations in noise levels, some noisy and some silent. I hope this helps.
Peter.

 

[Christox]

Only other difference is a polymer drive belt

Thanks
Could this new belt be an improvement regarding lifetime compared to the already "improved" actual rubber/carbonfibre belt ? Or does brose just wants to get away from greasing the squeaking thick rubber belt

 

[Bearing Man]

Thanks
Could this new belt be an improvement regarding lifetime compared to the already "improved" actual rubber/carbonfibre belt ? Or does brose just wants to get away from greasing the squeaking thick rubber belt

We'll have to wait and see

 

[c.tonus]

Bearing Man...
Does the brose mag engine line differ only in software? Is there no difference in hardware?I ask because my Socialized Tero 4.0 (with T drive) had a problem with loud and progressive noise, especially at the end of the ride and had its engine replaced under warranty. But they sent me a C drive (50nm) instead! As despite being heavy at 105kg, I usually only use it in ECO mode, I think I will gain autonomy! But I am worried that it will be more of the same, after 2 years the engine will give problems again and then it will be on me!

 

[Bearing Man]

Bearing Man...
Does the brose mag engine line differ only in software? Is there no difference in hardware?I ask because my Socialized Tero 4.0 (with T drive) had a problem with loud and progressive noise, especially at the end of the ride and had its engine replaced under warranty. But they sent me a C drive (50nm) instead! As despite being heavy at 105kg, I usually only use it in ECO mode, I think I will gain autonomy! But I am worried that it will be more of the same, after 2 years the engine will give problems again and then it will be on me!

Hi, Not sure your numbers are correct? The Tero 4.0 should come fitted with the Drive C Mag 50Nm motor (Specialized 2.0E). The Drive T Mag is 70Nm and would consume more of your battery. There will be little difference internally, but you can always get it upgraded by us or one of our partners, once it gets near the end of it's warranty.

 

[c.tonus]

Hi, Not sure your numbers are correct? The Tero 4.0 should come fitted with the Drive C Mag 50Nm motor (Specialized 2.0E). The Drive T Mag is 70Nm and would consume more of your battery. There will be little difference internally, but you can always get it upgraded by us or one of our partners, once it gets near the end of it's warranty.

Ok, thanks

 

[Christox]

Hi there,

after deciding that i will stay at Speci / Brose S-Mag for my new bike, is would like to know if there is a source to get the Dayco Kevlar/Polymer belt for repairs ? My 24 levo with -200 S-Mag, Motor production date was 11/22 has the old carbon belt assembled. I would like to have the new belt as spare, which will last longer in marketing speech

The new belt is used from speci since end of 2023, but in the belt replacement kits, theres seems to be the old one included.

Has anyone been able to purchase this new belt yet ?

Dayco | News: Dayco Partners with Europe’s Leading E-Bike Drive Manufacturer to Transform Drive Technology - International | EN

To transform the personal mobility industry, Dayco is consistently partnering with prominent original equipment (OE) manufacturers and supplying its premium quality products from its global...

www.dayco.com

best regards,

Chris

 

[RichMorr]

Hi there,

after deciding that i will stay at Speci / Brose S-Mag for my new bike, is would like to know if there is a source to get the Dayco Kevlar/Polymer belt for repairs ? My 24 levo with -200 S-Mag, Motor production date was 11/22 has the old carbon belt assembled. I would like to have the new belt as spare, which will last longer in marketing speech

The new belt is used from speci since end of 2023, but in the belt replacement kits, theres seems to be the old one included.

Has anyone been able to purchase this new belt yet ?

Dayco | News: Dayco Partners with Europe’s Leading E-Bike Drive Manufacturer to Transform Drive Technology - International | EN

To transform the personal mobility industry, Dayco is consistently partnering with prominent original equipment (OE) manufacturers and supplying its premium quality products from its global...

www.dayco.com

best regards,

Chris

How did you find the production date of the motor?

 

[Bearing Man]

Hi there,

after deciding that i will stay at Speci / Brose S-Mag for my new bike, is would like to know if there is a source to get the Dayco Kevlar/Polymer belt for repairs ? My 24 levo with -200 S-Mag, Motor production date was 11/22 has the old carbon belt assembled. I would like to have the new belt as spare, which will last longer in marketing speech

The new belt is used from speci since end of 2023, but in the belt replacement kits, theres seems to be the old one included.

Has anyone been able to purchase this new belt yet ?

Dayco | News: Dayco Partners with Europe’s Leading E-Bike Drive Manufacturer to Transform Drive Technology - International | EN

To transform the personal mobility industry, Dayco is consistently partnering with prominent original equipment (OE) manufacturers and supplying its premium quality products from its global...

www.dayco.com

best regards,

Chris

The Dayco belt is not for general release yet, same as the polymer belt before it. It's currently only for factory fitment and there is no dealer release date at this time.

 

[Christox]

Thanks @Bearing Man

How did you find the production date of the motor?

On the sticker, due to the fact, that the new Speci App doesn'T show the motor S/N anymore as in Mission control
It is included as: E01680-200YYMMDD-1-003


Best regards,

Chris

 

[RichMorr]

Thanks @Bearing Man


On the sticker, due to the fact, that the new Speci App doesn'T show the motor S/N anymore as in Mission control
It is included as: E01680-200YYMMDD-1-003


Best regards,

Chris

Cool have to have a look. I’ve got my24 alloy Levo and the build day of the bike is March 24 so be interesting seen the YofB the motor is.

 

[electricbogaloo]

The Dayco belt is not for general release yet, same as the polymer belt before it. It's currently only for factory fitment and there is no dealer release date at this time.

That sucks

 

[neils]

Has the Dayco belt become available to you guys at the eBike Motor Centre yet?
Just sending you an S Mag for a service/overhaul, suspected broken belt. 3 years old. approx 1000 miles (wife's bike)

 

[Bearing Man]

Has the Dayco belt become available to you guys at the eBike Motor Centre yet?
Just sending you an S Mag for a service/overhaul, suspected broken belt. 3 years old. approx 1000 miles (wife's bike)

Not yet, it's still under test with the factory at this time. The one in the kits currently is not that bad these days.

 

[electricbogaloo]

You mean Brose is still testing that belt? Or whoch factory do you mean?

 

[Bearing Man]

You mean Brose is still testing that belt? Or whoch factory do you mean?

Yes, I believe Brose factory want to be 100% sure with their "in warranty" protected motors before replacing the current belt and releasing the new belt into the general market.

 

[electricbogaloo]

That's weird considering the s-mag was launched in 2018 and they must have known since 19/20 that the belt is not reliable. 5+ years of belt testing and optimization?

 

[RichMorr]

That's weird considering the s-mag was launched in 2018 and they must have known since 19/20 that the belt is not reliable. 5+ years of belt testing and optimization?

For me they can do as much motor R&D as they want. If a new more reliable belt is being tested I’m all for it. I’ve mention before as some as my warranty is up it will be sent to @Bearing Man for upgrade and service as I want my bike to last, however (touch wood) 1400 miles in 10 months and seems to be going strong.

 

[Bearing Man]

That's weird considering the s-mag was launched in 2018 and they must have known since 19/20 that the belt is not reliable. 5+ years of belt testing and optimization?

The belts have been updated and upgraded at least 5 times in the last 5 years. I can assure you that Brose have never stopped trying to improve this concept. However, when the belt is asked to deal with pedal strikes, crashes, people pulling the spider off without the special tool and pulling their belt pullies out of alignment or never having their belt changed etc. etc.
As all will know on here, I am as neutral as I can be with regards the manufacturers. However, when I see about 75% of the motors we receive for repair, where the customer has stated that he thinks or has been told the belt has failed, the belt is normally fine and some other component is to blame. Trust me, the belts are not that bad regardless if it's a carbon or Drayco one.

 

[RichMorr]

The belts have been updated and upgraded at least 5 times in the last 5 years. I can assure you that Brose have never stopped trying to improve this concept. However, when the belt is asked to deal with pedal strikes, crashes, people pulling the spider off without the special tool and pulling their belt pullies out of alignment or never having their belt changed etc. etc.
As all will know on here, I am as neutral as I can be with regards the manufacturers. However, when I see about 75% of the motors we receive for repair, where the customer has stated that he thinks or has been told the belt has failed, the belt is normally fine and some other component is to blame. Trust me, the belts are not that bad regardless if it's a carbon or Drayco one.

@Bearing Man what is so special about the Drayco belt, other than being the latest revision?

 

[Bearing Man]

Can't answer that one just yet, sorry.

 

[RichMorr]

Can't answer that one just yet, sorry.

Super secret stuff, LOL

 

[gipsy]

Started to hear clacking from my 2020 Comp and opened it to see situation.
Belt had two small cracks on the edge

and I decided to leave it there and keep riding while waiting for the new belt.
After two or three rides it gave up.

After opening it for second time and done some research it was clear that clacking noise is not from belt but most likely from sprag.
Some history at this point, bike has done 7000km with this motor with great care to avoid the water when possible.
It payed off, no rust inside at all, only sprags. to be replaced, all other bearings seem to past massage test.
Here is funny detail to be seen on this image, one of plates(bottom one) is in wrong direction it seems and that is before I took the bearing out!

Once out, plates started to fell out, no damage on shaft or housing.
Now waiting for Kluber grease to come. separately as they(AXEVO) sell sprag bearings without grease and you should use special grease without EP aditives for sprag to function at it's best.
Not sure about heat marks on shaft if that part of shaft was heat treated in factory or needle bearing was overheating badly?
Any idea?

 

[electricbogaloo]

So the worn sprag bearing busted your newly mounted belt after just a few kilometres and the motor was wrongly assembled after just 7000km? That's rich for a 'premium' brand. I didn't open my motor yet but on my bike a few things weren't correctly installed and its funny considering people always point out how specialized is a premium brand and therefore the finish is better or whatever...

 

[gipsy]

So the worn sprag bearing busted your newly mounted belt after just a few kilometres and the motor was wrongly assembled after just 7000km? That's rich for a 'premium' brand. I didn't open my motor yet but on my bike a few things weren't correctly installed and its funny considering people always point out how specialized is a premium brand and therefore the finish is better or whatever...

No, no,... it. must be my English, I left old belt with cracks in and put motor back while planing to order new belt but in next few rides belt broke so I took it down agein to find out the sprag is gone too.