Bosch Gen 5 Rumour - More Power updates coming!

[russ_e]

Interesting that they would wait all the way until the end of May. Seems like they are not doing a very good job of keeping it secret. Wonder why they don't make an announcement.

In other news, I just rode my gen 5 e bike for the first time since the Amflow release (still prefer my regular bike most days) and it now feels woefully inadequate all the sudden (joking)

I know someone did my local route and just took one of my KOMs on Strava on the Amflow

I've convinced myself it's unrestricted too!

 

[Junior]

I saw the official numbers today, and it will be 120nm, 750w, with 600% assist and the release date is 26 May.

Did you see anything about class 3 mode. I think thats what more people in here are interested in

 

[Junior]

I know someone did my local route and just took one of my KOMs on Strava on the Amflow

I've convinced myself it's unrestricted too!

Flag it! haha

 

[501AM]

Did you see anything about class 3 mode. I think thats what more people in here are interested in

Unfortunately, I just saw the specs for the "Performance Upgrade 2.0" as Bosch call it.

 

[Suns_PSD]

I saw the official numbers today, and it will be 120nm, 750w, with 600% assist and the release date is 26 May.

I mean, it's a significant upgrade and more than enough for me, but it's literally HALF the watts of the Avinox, which is crazy when you think about it.

 

[Rando_12345]

I mean, it's a significant upgrade and more than enough for me, but it's literally HALF the watts of the Avinox, which is crazy when you think about it.

It's mostly that it simply doesn't move the needle at all on my choice of a bosch vs avinox bike.

Bosch would do better to source updated batteries ASAP and maybe even focus onto releasing an updated SX with 70nm + rattle free to hold onto that segment until avinox come for it also down the line...

 

[Suns_PSD]

Well, I'm a broken record on this, but yah, the battery density is what matters much more than additional power.

Avinox and Bosch are tied on the battery front at the moment. Word is that Bosch is releasing a denser battery 3rd quarter, and although 10-15% improvement would be cool, it's not life changing and possibly not worth the expense.

Now if someone could get a 30% improvement in battery density, and it was retrofittable, that would be amazing.

And like others, I'd sure enjoy a class 3 setting for those road sections.

Someone did post on PB that the power increase is 950w/ 120nm but who knows.

 

[Junior]

Well, I'm a broken record on this, but yah, the battery density is what matters much more than additional power.

Avinox and Bosch are tied on the battery front at the moment. Word is that Bosch is releasing a denser battery 3rd quarter, and although 10-15% improvement would be cool, it's not life changing and possibly not worth the expense.

Now if someone could get a 30% improvement in battery density, and it was retrofittable, that would be amazing.

And like others, I'd sure enjoy a class 3 setting for those road sections.

Someone did post on PB that the power increase is 950w/ 120nm but who knows.

I am somewhat guessing itll be 850 or 900. If you cross multiply 600/85 = x/120 you get 847. 750/100=x/120 gets you 900

 

[russ_e]

900w & 120NM would be great update!

 

[ntm95]

Bosch needs to channel the spirit of blitzkrieg (in a positive way ) to catch up and stay in the discussion for the next year as I would not be surprised if Avinox starts to churn out annual hardware and software upd

Well, I'm a broken record on this, but yah, the battery density is what matters much more than additional power.

Avinox and Bosch are tied on the battery front at the moment. Word is that Bosch is releasing a denser battery 3rd quarter, and although 10-15% improvement would be cool, it's not life changing and possibly not worth the expense.

Now if someone could get a 30% improvement in battery density, and it was retrofittable, that would be amazing.

And like others, I'd sure enjoy a class 3 setting for those road sections.

Someone did post on PB that the power increase is 950w/ 120nm but who knows.

Like I've talked about in the past, e-bikes use commercial, off the shelf cells that have been on the market for more than a year, usually several years. There'll be no surprises.
The 4680's used in the new 700wh dji battery, and the newer 21700's with slightly more capacity will provide a slightly better power density. These cells have been available for quite some time.
The 4680's are sort of a dead end, as the cell is physically too large to build higher voltage systems out of.

 

[Suns_PSD]

Like I've talked about in the past, e-bikes use commercial, off the shelf cells that have been on the market for more than a year, usually several years. There'll be no surprises.
The 4680's used in the new 700wh dji battery, and the newer 21700's with slightly more capacity will provide a slightly better power density. These cells have been available for quite some time.
The 4680's are sort of a dead end, as the cell is physically too large to build higher voltage systems out of.

What are the most premium cells that are available right now that you think would be applicable for the voltage, space, etc. other requirements, and what percent density increase would they even represent?

 

[Mario Antony]

Unfortunately not on a bosch gen 5 equipped yeti lte and I've yet to find a lbs showing any real interest or will to do what I'd like, activate the spare power ports for a front light and the rear sram derailleur. Might well be that none are yeti dealers and due to the dealer I bought the bike not dealing with yeti anymore, my nearest yeti dealer is 2.5-3 hours away.

Call any person/company doing Flash Service.
All my Bosch ports were activated + powermore250, lights, etc. Everything activated + 64km/h - all done by Rudie.

 

[Raptor]

If I could get faster charging and 900WH battery in my current Cube one77 frame I'd be happy - not arsed about increase in power.

No point in me begging/hoping for a speed increase with Bosch Gen5 - it ain't gonna happen!

 

[Suns_PSD]

Call any person/company doing Flash Service.
All my Bosch ports were activated + powermore250, lights, etc. Everything activated + 64km/h - all done by Rudie.

Can you share what you rigged up for your lights?

Did you buy some sort of universal power cable that attaches to a universal light or what?

Please advise.

 

[Junior]

Can you share what you rigged up for your lights?

Did you buy some sort of universal power cable that attaches to a universal light or what?

Please advise.

assuming it outputs enough amperage, I would assume the USB on your kiox (under a flap) could power an outbound light on the bars

 

[ntm95]

What are the most premium cells that are available right now that you think would be applicable for the voltage, space, etc. other requirements, and what percent density increase would they even represent?

Commercially available now, that make sense financially ?
65a and 60b's.
6500mah and 6000mah in a 21700 format.
Current packs use lg m58's (or equivalent, 5500 to 5800mah).
So marginal gains.

 

[Shaki]

900w & 120NM would be great update!

and that's what's supposed to happen after the update because there are already leaks regarding this information

 

[emtbeast]

Like I've talked about in the past, e-bikes use commercial, off the shelf cells that have been on the market for more than a year, usually several years. There'll be no surprises.
The 4680's used in the new 700wh dji battery, and the newer 21700's with slightly more capacity will provide a slightly better power density. These cells have been available for quite some time.
The 4680's are sort of a dead end, as the cell is physically too large to build higher voltage systems out of.

Sorry but we should share correct information. It's not a 4680 cell that is used in the new Avinox FP700.

It's practically impossible to build a 700Wh 36V battery in that length(56cm) and thickness with ten 4680 cells, it would be more than 80cm long. Some emtb magazines shared false information.

Looking at the dimensions It should be a custom 4650 cell(ten cells + bms ≈ 56cm).

 

[Mario Antony]

Can you share what you rigged up for your lights?

Did you buy some sort of universal power cable that attaches to a universal light or what?

Please advise.

yes, Supernova lights and high/low beam button.

with summer hour, I've removed because there's no need for lights until ~ 20:00, and it's around 200grm on the handlebar,

 

[emtbeast]

What are the most premium cells that are available right now that you think would be applicable for the voltage, space, etc. other requirements, and what percent density increase would they even represent?

Like already answered the latest cells(example M65A) are in the max range of 6,5Ah(slightly better at charging/discharging, cca 13% increase of battery pack energy density). For example a current 800Wh would become a 936Wh one in basically the same size and quite similar weight.

Looking at the Molicel P60B, this cell is pretty bonkers, slighly lower capacity vs the M65A but in exchange for that it has extreme stability at really high charge/discharge currents. It would yield only about cca 7% in battery pack energy density. For example, a current 800Wh battery pack would become an 864Wh one in basically the same size and quite similar weight.

 

[ntm95]

Sorry but we should share correct information. It's not a 4680 cell that is used in the new Avinox FP700.

It's practically impossible to build a 700Wh 36V battery in that length(56cm) and thickness with ten 4680 cells, it would be more than 80cm long. Some emtb magazines shared false information.

Looking at the dimensions It should be a custom 4650 cell(ten cells + bms ≈ 56cm).

You are correct, 4680's are too large/heavy.
There are a few places saying 4680 mistakenly, including myself.

 

[emtbeast]

You are correct, 4680's are too large/heavy.
There are a few places saying 4680 mistakenly, including myself.

Yeah the blame is on them, not your self. They should edit their articles correctly. Thanks for your help to the emtb community

 

[BigCraig]

How long did this new update take to install for everyone?

My end it took almost 4 minutes to transfer from the app to the bike, then a further 4 or so minutes for the update.

Suspiciously long for a minor update that added diddly squat to my bike!

The emtb+/ 750W update took under 2 minutes. An update that was good, and much quicker.

Have we received the new update without knowing it? Are Bosch trolling us? Are Bosch trying to avoid the issues they faced when they did the 100Nm update? Maybe they had server issues during that update and they're trying to avoid a repeat of that?

 

[trekRailIRL]

Have we received the new update without knowing it? Are Bosch trolling us? Are Bosch trying to avoid the issues they faced when they did the 100Nm update? Maybe they had server issues during that update and they're trying to avoid a repeat of that?

I've no idea what you are talking about. Similar times for my update today though.

 

[Suns_PSD]

yes, Supernova lights and high/low beam button.

with summer hour, I've removed because there's no need for lights until ~ 20:00, and it's around 200grm on the handlebar,

Did the Supernova light come with the needed power cord?

If you can provide a link that would be great.

 

[Suns_PSD]

Sorry but we should share correct information. It's not a 4680 cell that is used in the new Avinox FP700.

It's practically impossible to build a 700Wh 36V battery in that length(56cm) and thickness with ten 4680 cells, it would be more than 80cm long. Some emtb magazines shared false information.

Looking at the dimensions It should be a custom 4650 cell(ten cells + bms ≈ 56cm).

So custom cells for e-bikes are in fact quite possible, it would appear.

But it also appears, that we are very close to the current density limit.

 

[BigCraig]

I've no idea what you are talking about. Similar times for my update today though.

Which update? The new one? How long did it take?

 

[ntm95]

How long did this new update take to install for everyone?

My end it took almost 4 minutes to transfer from the app to the bike, then a further 4 or so minutes for the update.

Suspiciously long for a minor update that added diddly squat to my bike!

The emtb+/ 750W update took under 2 minutes. An update that was good, and much quicker.

Have we received the new update without knowing it? Are Bosch trolling us? Are Bosch trying to avoid the issues they faced when they did the 100Nm update? Maybe they had server issues during that update and they're trying to avoid a repeat of that?

That's kind of what I was thinking.

So custom cells for e-bikes are in fact quite possible, it would appear.

But it also appears, that we are very close to the current density limit.

Yes and no.
It's the same cell (construction/composition), just different height.
Until someone disassembles the 700wh, we won't know the exact dimensions, but it's certainly a 46xx pattern cell.

46xx Cylindrical Cells - Battery Design

46xx cylindrical cells is an abbreviation for the new class of 46mm diameter cells. Starting with the Tesla 4680, an 80mm high version.

www.batterydesign.net

 

[trekRailIRL]

Did the Supernova light come with the needed power cord?

If you can provide a link that would be great.

This is the light I have.

Same idea.

I've removed it now as we come into spring and longer evenings. The output on full beam is great and then it can be dipped to not dazzle people as needed.

Comes with all cables needed and remote for controlling high/low beam.

LEZYNE E-BIKE MEGA HB StVZO E2000 | LED FRONT BIKE LIGHT E-BIKE MEGA HB StVZO E2000

 

[Suns_PSD]

This is the light I have.

Same idea.

I've removed it now as we come into spring and longer evenings. The output on full beam is great and then it can be dipped to not dazzle people as needed.

Comes with all cables needed and remote for controlling high/low beam.

LEZYNE E-BIKE MEGA HB StVZO E2000 | LED FRONT BIKE LIGHT E-BIKE MEGA HB StVZO E2000

That's freakin' slick! I need that.