Yes, but by coverage you mean insurance? Insurance companies? There's the rub. A bike shop here had two ebikes stolen while being demo'd. I don't know the details of the theft, but insurance didn't cover it because it wasn't shop lifting. I thought I was insured myself once - there is usually a catch - but again that is a cliche isn't it.
Bike was stolen whilst in for repair
- Thread starter Bluegord1993
- Start date
So, this dreadful for you — awful ?
But if it had been stolen from you, unless you had a ‘new-for-old’ expensive insurance, your insurance company would only pay no more than what your purchase receipt showed. The recommended retail price simply has no relevance to how insurance contracts are written, unless ‘new-for-old’ is paid for. In that case, they have to supply a new one which would cost new retail price. If there was no bike available (like now) they would give you a cash equivalent unless you agreed to a different spec/manufacturer that was available for the same cost.
This may or not be fair, but even those who’ll no doubt shout me down, will, I suspect, know that I’m right.
This simple and painful — really horrible — truth applies to the LBS’s insurance which will definitely not be new for old. Further, as the insurance claim may be for pushing on for $100K for their single claim, depending on store size — you say everything went — the insurance company will have their best ‘loss adjuster’ on the case....
Really sad for you mate ?
But if it had been stolen from you, unless you had a ‘new-for-old’ expensive insurance, your insurance company would only pay no more than what your purchase receipt showed. The recommended retail price simply has no relevance to how insurance contracts are written, unless ‘new-for-old’ is paid for. In that case, they have to supply a new one which would cost new retail price. If there was no bike available (like now) they would give you a cash equivalent unless you agreed to a different spec/manufacturer that was available for the same cost.
This may or not be fair, but even those who’ll no doubt shout me down, will, I suspect, know that I’m right.
This simple and painful — really horrible — truth applies to the LBS’s insurance which will definitely not be new for old. Further, as the insurance claim may be for pushing on for $100K for their single claim, depending on store size — you say everything went — the insurance company will have their best ‘loss adjuster’ on the case....
Really sad for you mate ?
Cyclopath1000
Active member
In the usa different insurance products are available at different price points. If it's " cost of replacement " then used or new you get a new bike. If it's fair value you get that. Most likely if the bike shop used customary accepted locks and security they were not remiss in the handling of your bike so probably the lbs isn't bound to further indemnify you. He didn't steal your bike somebody else did. Criminal activities hurt all.
I
Exactly that , if the LBS is under insured then it’s up to them to top up the difference !
As has been stated, what you paid for the bike is irrelevant, it's what it will cost to replace it with like for like that is relevant. Your contract is with the LBS not their insurers, they need to replace your bike, like for like, if they can't get a second hand one in the same condition then they should offer a new one, they don't pay RRP for them do they.
Pdoz
E*POWAH Elite World Champion
So am I reading this correctly?
If my 3 yo giant fugly is at the lbs and someone has taken enough drugs to take it, then I score a brand spaniking new trance?
The lbs is expected to keep a straight face when I demand a trance to replace it?
Next time I buy a bike online I still get to whinge that the lbs refuses to do the warranty work?
And it's the insurer who is the bztrd ?
If my 3 yo giant fugly is at the lbs and someone has taken enough drugs to take it, then I score a brand spaniking new trance?
The lbs is expected to keep a straight face when I demand a trance to replace it?
Next time I buy a bike online I still get to whinge that the lbs refuses to do the warranty work?
And it's the insurer who is the bztrd ?
Rusty
E*POWAH BOSS
That one is old as the hills. Had this happen at our MC shop in the 70's and ended up doing a RePo with a couple of the mechanics once we located the bike. As soon as dad was denied coverage he had his lawyer write up an Indemnity document for test rides and made sure his insurance company changed his coverage. Needed a change of insurance company to resolve, but is pretty much standard practice in the MC industry these days. LBS has a similar form for test rides that are anything more than a lap around the carpark.
Rusty
E*POWAH BOSS
Nope - you would be expecting something second hand and similar.
No you are not
Pdoz
E*POWAH Elite World Champion
Good to hear, so the op had an ex demo 2020 bike that he had ridden enough to need to be at the lbs for service.
So a brand new replacement bike but slightly liwer speck would be considered a bloody good deal?
So a brand new replacement bike but slightly liwer speck would be considered a bloody good deal?
bigkev
New Member
That's what I mean - I'm sure they did all that. Thieves change too. Anyone can make a licence etc. I don't know the details but it would have been a scam that was relatively new; I bet the insurance companies knew about it though.
Ignore their insurance cover as you are not bound by the terms of the bike shops cover, that is the compensation they receive in the event of them sustaining a loss. The bike shop must offer you an acceptable like for like replacement regardless of whether they lose out in giving you that deal (although I don't see why they would). The fact that the market has changed significantly since Spring 2020 is well known so why should you accept a credit for the same amount you paid when it will not get you back an equivalent bike.
If the bike shop are not prepared to put you back where you were before they lost your bike then you are well within your rights to issue a claim in the County Court for a sum you can prove is necessary to do just this. This is not limited to what you paid but a sum you show is necessary to put you back in the same position as you would have been if the bike had not been stolen. Check out the small claims procedure online, you can represent yourself fairly easily and are not liable for costs (beyond the application itself) so long as you are reasonable in the way you conduct the case. This is of course a PITA for you but even worse for them so I cannot see why they wouldn't want to work with you to get you a decent replacement.
If the bike shop are not prepared to put you back where you were before they lost your bike then you are well within your rights to issue a claim in the County Court for a sum you can prove is necessary to do just this. This is not limited to what you paid but a sum you show is necessary to put you back in the same position as you would have been if the bike had not been stolen. Check out the small claims procedure online, you can represent yourself fairly easily and are not liable for costs (beyond the application itself) so long as you are reasonable in the way you conduct the case. This is of course a PITA for you but even worse for them so I cannot see why they wouldn't want to work with you to get you a decent replacement.
Presumably he has the original reciept for what he paid for it ?
If so then he needs to bang in that as a claim and then give you the bike at cost, which is what the insurance company will have paid him, so he won't lose, then you can ask him to meet you half way to the cost of the additional bits
If so then he needs to bang in that as a claim and then give you the bike at cost, which is what the insurance company will have paid him, so he won't lose, then you can ask him to meet you half way to the cost of the additional bits
In Oz, the shop would be required to replace the bike like for like. You lose a bike and they replace it as it was or better (new model for example). They could offer you an equivalent or even a cash settlement but those are offers. What the insurance of the shop is has nothing to do with it. Nor is what you paid for the bike. If they had no insurance you'd still have a claim, for example, at the CURRENT value. It's up to them to have enough insurance.
However, this isn't Oz. And I'm not a UK lawyer (or any lawyer for that matter). You need to get actual legal advice and often a second and third opinion, especially if it's from a consumer affairs bureau. You can ring those people 5 times and get 5 different answers. Depending on your local laws you may be entitled to a new bike, a used bike based on the age of your bike or nothing at all. Get some proper legal advice.
Negotiate with the shop for sure. Draw a line in the sand where you know what you're entitled to. Also remember that they're probably a bit lost as well. Insurance companies aren't there for their clients, in general and the store may be as confused as you. And they'll be suffering, especially if they're a small store. Bike shops are booming, except they can't get stock, so they're not, really. When the store says they're dealing with insurance there's nothing wrong with politely reminding them that your *contract* is with the store, not their insurance. Not your problem.
I think you're handling it really well. If you get another demo and the drivetrain is in good shape, I think you'll be luckier than many.
Gordon
However, this isn't Oz. And I'm not a UK lawyer (or any lawyer for that matter). You need to get actual legal advice and often a second and third opinion, especially if it's from a consumer affairs bureau. You can ring those people 5 times and get 5 different answers. Depending on your local laws you may be entitled to a new bike, a used bike based on the age of your bike or nothing at all. Get some proper legal advice.
Negotiate with the shop for sure. Draw a line in the sand where you know what you're entitled to. Also remember that they're probably a bit lost as well. Insurance companies aren't there for their clients, in general and the store may be as confused as you. And they'll be suffering, especially if they're a small store. Bike shops are booming, except they can't get stock, so they're not, really. When the store says they're dealing with insurance there's nothing wrong with politely reminding them that your *contract* is with the store, not their insurance. Not your problem.
I think you're handling it really well. If you get another demo and the drivetrain is in good shape, I think you'll be luckier than many.
Gordon
I understand it's a bit sketchy taking legal advice on a forum. You could pay a solicitor at least £150 an hour for some advice or you could follow up the advice here with your own research to ensure you are not being led astray.
You would be making a claim for loss (your actual bike) as a result of breach of contract (the shop not being able to return your bike). The shop should pay you damages (the cost to put you back on an equivalent bike) as they are not able to fulfil their obligation under the contract (to return your bike).
With this information you should be able to research the process and understand how and why you are going down this route.
You have a very straightforward and simple claim for damages. None of this is similar to an insurance situation so please disregard this approach if you want back the equivalent of what you left in the care of the shop.
I had a quick look for examples of similar situations and came up with this well set out example of the process on MSE forum. Chap seems to have hit the buffers at the enforcement stage owing to unclear company structure but otherwise this is otherwise a good example of how to succeed in this situation.
The small claims process is set up to make it easy for an individual to recover their losses in this type of straightforward situation without the expense of lawyers being involved and it is the right way to settle a dispute.
Good luck.
forums.moneysavingexpert.com
You would be making a claim for loss (your actual bike) as a result of breach of contract (the shop not being able to return your bike). The shop should pay you damages (the cost to put you back on an equivalent bike) as they are not able to fulfil their obligation under the contract (to return your bike).
With this information you should be able to research the process and understand how and why you are going down this route.
You have a very straightforward and simple claim for damages. None of this is similar to an insurance situation so please disregard this approach if you want back the equivalent of what you left in the care of the shop.
I had a quick look for examples of similar situations and came up with this well set out example of the process on MSE forum. Chap seems to have hit the buffers at the enforcement stage owing to unclear company structure but otherwise this is otherwise a good example of how to succeed in this situation.
The small claims process is set up to make it easy for an individual to recover their losses in this type of straightforward situation without the expense of lawyers being involved and it is the right way to settle a dispute.
Good luck.
My Item Stolen From Repair Shop - What can I do?
Hi All, I really hope someone can help. I don't know where else to go and I'm at a complete loss.
forums.moneysavingexpert.com
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on the legalities you are giving advise on would thatI understand it's a bit sketchy taking legal advice on a forum. You could pay a solicitor at least £150 an hour for some advice or you could follow up the advice here with your own research to ensure you are not being led astray.
You would be making a claim for loss (your actual bike) as a result of breach of contract (the shop not being able to return your bike). The shop should pay you damages (the cost to put you back on an equivalent bike) as they are not able to fulfil their obligation under the contract (to return your bike).
With this information you should be able to research the process and understand how and why you are going down this route.
You have a very straightforward and simple claim for damages. None of this is similar to an insurance situation so please disregard this approach if you want back the equivalent of what you left in the care of the shop.
I had a quick look for examples of similar situations and came up with this well set out example of the process on MSE forum. Chap seems to have hit the buffers at the enforcement stage owing to unclear company structure but otherwise this is otherwise a good example of how to succeed in this situation.
The small claims process is set up to make it easy for an individual to recover their losses in this type of straightforward situation without the expense of lawyers being involved and it is the right way to settle a dispute.
Good luck.
My Item Stolen From Repair Shop - What can I do?
Hi All, I really hope someone can help. I don't know where else to go and I'm at a complete loss.
be under "English Law" or another country`s
just asking
Not holding myself out as an expert (lawyer) but giving advice on the the principles used in English small claims.
I understand not wanting to be an arse and yes he is in a bad spot but he should understand also. It’s not costing him anything out of pocket and that is why I don’t understand his side on not wanting to replace the bike for an equal valued one.
Or even if you took in to that shop for work and not purchased it from that shop
Bluegord1993
Member
- Thread starter
- #84
Picked up the bike today, both wheels like bananas, fork legs scratched right into the metal, stone chips everywhere, none of my parts as he’s waiting on them (3 weeks) ago it was stolen ?
so have you acually accepted the bike
or just inspected it
just trying to get the lay of the land
Bluegord1993
Member
- Thread starter
- #86
I took it home as he was about to head off and I wouldn’t have been able to view it or get it for another 2 weeks due to work commitments
Bluegord1993
Member
- Thread starter
- #88
Basically,
got the ex demo
hadn’t been to the shop as the lbs got it tuesday
told him that if it’s not decent then give it back to the rep
Was told it’s all good and fully serviced, brakes are non existent
And had to go see it today and took it home for a good check and to say the least I’m not happy,
did you not check it in the LBS in front of the owner
Bluegord1993
Member
- Thread starter
- #90
Asked where all my parts were and we were both in a hurry to get away, I’ve not even sat on it, it looked good in the shop covered in wd40 no where near the lights, I put it in the van and came home, should have brought something up there but only noticed all the bad points when I had it upside down checking the wheels for a buckle
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