Avinox Reveals its Motor Gearbox

[TorAtle]

I am currently riding a belt driven cvt in the form of a Bosch motor + Enviolo hub for commuting, touring and the odd excursion on easy trails. Being a crude version of an ecvt, it's been mostly great. The main drawback is the heavy hub which will be solved with a motor/gearbox. Changing gear manually is decent, but it lacks haptic feedback. Again, could be solved. The auto shift performs as you'd expect being a reactive system - it's often too late to the party. I guess thats where the lidar comes in, although it's probably many years into the future. Lastly there's the belt. I haven't washed my bike yet which kinda says it all . Love it.

I think most of us are going to get on well with a belt driven ecvt.

 

[Paulquattro]

SRAM

The SRAM Brand Portfolio

• SRAM: The core brand responsible for drivetrains (including the Eagle and AXS wireless lines), brakes, and shifting systems.
• RockShox: Acquired in 2002, this brand produces mountain bike suspension forks, rear shocks, and dropper posts.
• Zipp: Acquired in 2007, Zipp manufactures high-end carbon wheels, handlebars, and stems.
• Quarq: Founded in 2006 and bought in 2011, Quarq specializes in precise crank-based and spider-based power meters.
• Avid: Acquired in 2004, Avid is known for its hydraulic and mechanical disc brake systems.
• Truvativ: Purchased in 2004, this brand produces strong, durable components like cranksets, chainrings, and handlebars.
• Time Sport: Acquired in 2021, SRAM owns and manufactures Time's iconic road and mountain bike clipless pedal systems.
• Hammerhead: Acquired in 2022, this division manufactures GPS cycling computers.
• Velocio: Acquired in 2022, this is SRAM's premium cycling apparel division.

Yeah there running scared

 

[shmulik]

Avinox MG Concept: no derailleur, no cassette, infinite gearing

Avinox has shown its new MG Concept at Eurobike.

MG stands for Motor Gearbox, but the interesting bit is that this isn’t just a normal gearbox motor. From my interview, Avinox described it as using stepless virtual gearing.

That means no traditional rear drivetrain:

• No derailleur
• No cassette
• No fixed mechanical gear steps
• Gear changes in around 0.1 sec
• Can be run as 4 gears, 5 gears, 12 gears, or full auto
• AI-supported auto shifting
• Similar power target to M2S
• Chain or belt compatible
• Potential motor lock anti-theft
• Regen braking being explored

The best way to think about it:

A normal bike has fixed gears, like steps.

This is more like a ramp. The system has effectively infinite ratios underneath, then the software lets you decide how you want that gearing to feel.

Avinox had concept bikes from Canyon, Commencal, Mondraker and Forbidden using the MG system.

Still only a concept, likely not production until next year, but this could be one of the biggest drivetrain changes in eMTB for years.

All the credit goes to REVONTE from Finland. They started the trend. Pitty they didn't make it financially.

 

[sethimus]

I think most of us are going to get on well with an chain driven ecvt.

fyp. half of this forum lives in muddy rainy uk

 

[Pilot]

All the credit goes to REVONTE from Finland. They started the trend. Pitty they didn't make it financially.

Don’t forget E2‘s Owuru drive, bought and brought to market by Decathlon for 2(?) years now. And prices are great as well, for the whole urban ebike (Decathlon BTWIN LD 940E) comes at 2800€. It might have some spongy pedal feel, but still great for non-competitive riding!

I‘m also curious if Bosch can buy up one of the main eCVT developers in time, license a respective bundle or come up with something of their own. Though I fear they might have overtly focused on regulatory retaliation against their Asian competition.

 

[Pilot]

The SRAM Brand Portfolio

• SRAM: The core brand responsible for drivetrains (including the Eagle and AXS wireless lines), brakes, and shifting systems.
• RockShox: Acquired in 2002, this brand produces mountain bike suspension forks, rear shocks, and dropper posts.
• Zipp: Acquired in 2007, Zipp manufactures high-end carbon wheels, handlebars, and stems.
• Quarq: Founded in 2006 and bought in 2011, Quarq specializes in precise crank-based and spider-based power meters.
• Avid: Acquired in 2004, Avid is known for its hydraulic and mechanical disc brake systems.
• Truvativ: Purchased in 2004, this brand produces strong, durable components like cranksets, chainrings, and handlebars.
• Time Sport: Acquired in 2021, SRAM owns and manufactures Time's iconic road and mountain bike clipless pedal systems.
• Hammerhead: Acquired in 2022, this division manufactures GPS cycling computers.
• Velocio: Acquired in 2022, this is SRAM's premium cycling apparel division.

Yeah there running scared

SRAM seems more like a Unilever or Nestlé style conglomerate of the bike component industry. Owning multiple top brands thus coming close to delivering a one stop shop experience. Now Asian manufacturers like Stablead are aggressively starting a wide variety of high quality products at the same time, offering bike brands the very same one stop experience for most components at top quality for (as announced 15% below current market price). Dampers, forks, handle bars, disc brakes, and whatnot. Wheel sets I don’t know. But SRAM‘s OEM pricing will definitely come under attack as well, so they might not only suffer from eCVT making their main products obsolete.

 

[sethimus]

even their drivetrain division was initially aquired (used to be sachs)

 

[DaffyD]

Well done DJI for this innovation: 2 years after their first motor.
Shimano, Bosch, Sram deserve the consequences of their lack of innovation over the last 10+ years.

Going to be so awesome to pedal out of the corner and be in the right "ratio" with no chain skipping.

To be fair to the other companies, AI and powerful computers are assisting with China’s innovation. If you look at some of the consumer electronics shows they are dominating in almost every sector. Then again they build massive power plants every week and giant data centers as well. And there isn’t a single protester , so it’s full speed ahead in China for all technology innovation.

One example; China built two massive coal fired power plants a week, every week in 2025. They burn more coal than the rest of the planet combined. Not a single environmental protest to slow it down. The USA and EU built zero coal power plants in 2025.

So hard to compete with that…

They do some renewable energy as well, but that’s mostly to distract from their real source of power.….

 

[slickrock]

Agreed.
And a "manualised auto" is still not the same thing. Just does not drive the same. I think controlling the clutch pedal makes the difference.

Saying this, I agree with G-Sport

I will reserve my judgement until I can get on one. But with speed and accuracy of electronic control these days I would be very surprised if the person on the cranks can 'feel' much slop.

Agreed. This is what I experienced with the TM-B, albeit that was a pedal-by-wire instead of ECVT, but if you think about PBW this is actually a worst case scenario for pedal feel because there is no mechanical connection between pedal and drive shaft - it's 100% simulated. The TM-B felt almost freakishly (not in absolute terms but in terms of my PBW expectations) connected in manual mode. To get that snappy feel, the system has to instantaneously counteract pedal torque. I put the bike in a higher gear and mashed the pedals from a standstill and got very quick counteraction. I would put it certainly better than any IGH I've tried (even the Rohloff), and more on par with a detuned, slightly worn chain setup. In Auto mode, snapiness doesn't even apply because a it was tuned for cadence. TM-B needed more software work in that area - a quick reaction motor to power the drive is different that counteraction at the pedals. Clearly it felt that the TM-B pedal generator was acting like a motor to create the counteraction at the pedals, not to mention haptic feedback, which uncannily mimicked mechanical changing gears. Who's to say at this point though without a finished product, if ECVT has a rougher go at this because of the mechanical interconnections between motors, pedal, and chain forces. Owuru city motor has internal belts and is not built for EMTB but is out there (pedal vibration has been called out), though their V2 motor shown last year is the better one to get a beat on, other than these new Chinese offerings.

 

[sethimus]

some renewable energy

 

[dadeadduck]

To be fair to the other companies, AI and powerful computers are assisting with China’s innovation. If you look at some of the consumer electronics shows they are dominating in almost every sector. Then again they build massive power plants every week and giant data centers as well. And there isn’t a single protester , so it’s full speed ahead in China for all technology innovation.

One example; China built two massive coal fired power plants a week, every week in 2025. They burn more coal than the rest of the planet combined. Not a single environmental protest to slow it down. The USA and EU built zero coal power plants in 2025.

So hard to compete with that…

They do some renewable energy as well, but that’s mostly to distract from their real source of power.….

Erm,

China built 315gw of solar last year, nearly 60% of the entire world. USA added 43gw.

It built 5x more clean power than dirty. That's not a distraction, it's billions in strategic decision making to keep diverse stability in the grid.

China has 35 nuclear power stations being built, which when complete will be larger than the US fleet.

The US is too busy distracting itself with stock bubbles, personal wealth and white nationalists using internal cultural wars to think beyond tomorrow.

 

[Powerslider]

Thread took an ugly turn into geopolitics @Moderator

 

[sethimus]

Thread took an ugly turn into geopolitics @Moderator

wah wah wah someone is confronting me with unwanted truths that shatter my personal usa image

 

[killjoyken]

wah wah wah someone is confronting me with unwanted truths that shatter my personal usa image

I thought the Swiss were neutral?

 

[Moderator]

Ok guys, let's try and stay on topic !

Thanks.

 

[Singletrackmind]

Exactly my thoughts re. Avinox’s forced hand to show a “prototype” even though it quite obviously is costing them (and their brand partners) sales.

An important thing to consider for folks who are shopping (or who stopped shopping based on this news) is that new technologies need time for the inevitable bugs to get worked out. As anyone who’s bought a first model year car can attest, there are plenty of issues that only show themselves after release. Your best experience on a bike for the next 2+ years is probably going to be on that current gen M2S, so go buy it tomorrow and enjoy it.

That's the strategy I'm taking. Will ride my M2S powered bikes for next ~2 years while they work the kinks out.

 

[Ndanger]

think most of us are going to get on well with a belt driven ecvt.

I'm curious if stones that get pulled through the belt sprocket will be a problem.

 

[patdam]

I'm curious if stones that get pulled through the belt sprocket will be a problem.

for me clearly yes (i have an motorcycle with belt) and i want not on my ebike

 

[TorAtle]

I'm curious if stones that get pulled through the belt sprocket will be a problem.

Worst case the belt will skip a cog or come off? Assuming there is a tensioner. The last month I've had 3 cog skips, or at least that's what I think is happening. Something akin to a worn chain jumping a tooth but with a different sound.

 

[Ndanger]

Ah ha , I have a vision of the future...

 

[Bmin]

I liked the idea too but no belt for me on bikes. Helped a neighbor with his Gates CDX belt driven city ebike. He was looking for a replacement belt as the belt was damaged when his long coat was catched and dragged into the system.
First thing, belt is very expensive.
Second thing, it needs to be handled & installed very carefully.
Worst thing, it wasn‘t available for delivery - worldwide. Only 2 or 3 used ones on ebay, in unknown conditions.

 

[sethimus]

Ah ha , I have a vision of the future...

View attachment 188176

you want a bike with 3 pedals for your 2 feet?

 

[killjoyken]

I've read too many horror stories about belts to know I don't want to try one. Chains aren't perfect but they work well as long as you maintain them and I can easily fix one on the trail.

 

[caper11]

Worst case the belt will skip a cog or come off? Assuming there is a tensioner. The last month I've had 3 cog skips, or at least that's what I think is happening. Something akin to a worn chain jumping a tooth but with a different sound.

Hopefully there is a tensioner. The derailer did that task for the chain.

A CVT will suit city commuter bikes, now, mtn bikes that will see a higher load and require a fast backshift?

 

[pnwrider]

That's the strategy I'm taking. Will ride my M2S powered bikes for next ~2 years while they work the kinks out.

While I don’t entirely disagree with the sentiment here, the reality is that, at least for those of us in the US, availability of the M2S bikes is still extremely limited, with most manufactures out multiple months if you order something today. That means you’re missing most or all of the current riding season either way. Hard to justify spending high dollar for a top tier M2S bike with these looming so close on the horizon. Not to mention resale value on those will be seriously hurt if eCVTs turn out half as good as it seems like they are.

Sure there will be kinks/bugs, but I suspect they’ll be largely software related (thusly updatable), as the mechanical components of an eCVT are actually remarkably simple and reliable. Ask Toyota.

 

[nickf]

I'm curious if stones that get pulled through the belt sprocket will be a problem.

I think a lot of people wrongly believe that belts are unbreakable, but stones or large grit in the sprockets seems to be a common cause of belts snapping. While I love the idea of a belt, I don't want to always have to carry a spare just in case. I always have a spare chain rapid link with me, it takes up zero space, and can save your ride.

 

[Suns_PSD]

I think a lot of people wrongly believe that belts are unbreakable, but stones or large grit in the sprockets seems to be a common cause of belts snapping. While I love the idea of a belt, I don't want to always have to carry a spare just in case. I always have a spare chain rapid link with me, it takes up zero space, and can save your ride.

Others have found that belts can experience unseen damage when packaged even a little tightly. Then fail shortly after install. So, if you try and roll the thing up in your hydration pack, thinking that it'll save you down the road/ trail, it likely won't.
If you think about it accessory drive belts on an ICE are packaged in a way that doesn't overly flex them either, probably for the same reason.

 

[Brawwp]

Well guys I have good news, you can also just opt for the chain on the mgu

 

[Powerslider]

Well guys I have good news, you can also just opt for the chain on the mgu
View attachment 188250

An unbroken/continuous rear triangle (parrellagram?) like that couldn't even use a belt. There'd be no way to install it.

 

[Petrex]

An unbroken/continuous rear triangle (parrellagram?) like that couldn't even use a belt. There'd be no way to install it.

Unless someone starts to make something like the VEER Split Belt Pro !