Avinox M2

[B-man]

I’m not one that needs a lot of range from my bike, but for those who do, it seems to me a poor choice to pick a motor platform that doesn’t have a range extender option. Says a lot that even those who want a lot of range are seduced by big power.

You are absolutely correct. The only reason I bought a Levo Gen4 was because of the extender or Id be on a Amflow. Four or five of my buddies are the same. They all bought Levos or Orbeas with Bosch. They all wanted Amflows but decided on bikes with available extenders.

DJI is really screwed up with not making an extender. I cant even imagine how many more bikes would sell with the DJI motor.

 

[xtraman122]

For those saying batteries will drain way too fast, I guess if you truly ride at these crazy wattage levels in turbo that may be true, but I could never imagine doing that having tried that much power before.

My bike has a Bafang M560, which is 1200W/130Nm at full power, and it’s an absurd amount of power for anything other than a quick sprint up a hill if you’re tired. It hardly even feels like you’re riding a bike, your feet feel more like a throttle control than a power input. I feel bad for my drivetrain even trying the power for a few seconds just messing around, I rarely get above 600W in my normal riding on the mode I use.

All this to say, as someone else pointed out, just because it’s capable of the crazy power doesn’t mean you have to use it, nor does it mean your battery life will suffer just because it has the capability. It lets you feel safe knowing your motor is tested to be capable of roughly double the load you’re using it for and should last a long time barely breaking a sweat with what you’re asking from it.

 

[xtraman122]

DJI is really screwed up with not making an extender. I cant even imagine how many more bikes would sell with the DJI motor.

I’m willing to bet not that many people in the grand scheme of things actually buy a range extender, especially on bikes that offer 800Wh batteries. Obviously some are out there, but I’m willing to bet the share of people that have a range extender as a make or break requirement on their list of desires on a bike with an 800Wh option is very small.

We see them be really popular with Bosch because so many manufacturers went with the 600Wh battery option for better looking frames.

 

[B-man]

I’m willing to bet not that many people in the grand scheme of things actually buy a range extender, especially on bikes that offer 800Wh batteries. Obviously some are out there, but I’m willing to bet the share of people that have a range extender as a make or break requirement on their list of desires on a bike with an 800Wh option is very small.

We see them be really popular with Bosch because so many manufacturers went with the 600Wh battery option for better looking frames.

I think you are right but it all depends on the trails you ride or where you live. I live in an area with big vertical climbs and long miles. Our climbs can be 7000-9000 ft vert and 25-40 miles. Most all have extenders. The few that dont have extenders carry extra batteries.

 

[xtraman122]

I think you are right but it all depends on the trails you ride or where you live. I live in an area with big vertical climbs and long miles. Our climbs can be 7000-9000 ft vert and 25-40 miles. Most all have extenders. The few that dont have extenders carry extra batteries.

Wow, that’s an impressive climb. I’d be done riding halfway through the climb geez.

 

[zerofunds]

Everyone's different, we ride up steep and down steep, everything is in turbo at max effort, after an hour everyone is cooked. Absolutely no need for a battery extender.

 

[Suns_PSD]

I shredded a chain today, in the correct gear, on my Fazua 60.
I don't see how these new motors can run any drive train besides a Linkglide. The power is insane.
Sram really needs to design Transmission to have a really strong 9 or 10 gear version with first gear having around a 44-46t.

 

[Bogdan_CH]

For full power Ebikes a 38/40 would be more than enoght. I never use the last 2 or 3 big rings.

I find it a miss they didn't launch that DH deraileur for a more packed smaller ratio cassete.

 

[ZR1]

Need to ride it to judge. May well be the rumoured 1300w peak is rarely used but if it comes with more low rpm torque it would be a plus for me.

 

[Rando_12345]

My plan is to buy a slopestyle bike with sram DH 7 speed and an Avinox bike this year.

My dumb plan is to put the DH groupset on the Avinox bike for a weekend and see what happens 11-26 might be a bit short, but 1300W should be enough for any non-tech climbs and even most tech climbs.

 

[xtraman122]

I shredded a chain today, in the correct gear, on my Fazua 60.
I don't see how these new motors can run any drive train besides a Linkglide. The power is insane.
Sram really needs to design Transmission to have a really strong 9 or 10 gear version with first gear having around a 44-46t.

I’ve been thinking this is past due as well. A 10 speed cassette that would make a little more room for a beefed up version of the t-type chain would be perfect for any of the full powered bikes now.

 

[TTEngineer]

I shredded a chain today, in the correct gear, on my Fazua 60.
I don't see how these new motors can run any drive train besides a Linkglide. The power is insane.
Sram really needs to design Transmission to have a really strong 9 or 10 gear version with first gear having around a 44-46t.

Oddly enough my buddy also shredded his chain on his Fazua powered Relay this weekend.

I honestly think less gears and less range would solve a lot of the drive train issues on e-bikes.

Due to the power, you don’t need 52T cog. Hell you don’t really need a 50 either.

I personally think something like a 9 speed 10-46 is probably the right ballpark. 9 speed would be a significantly thicker chain, a proven step count on the cassette, and additionally your cage could be shorter increasing clearance and probably durability.

Box components with the Prime 9 was on the right track, they just don’t have the R&D budget to make it perfect.

 

[Yetimans]

Avinox M2S premium: 130 Nm 1300 W / Boost 150 Nm 1500 W
Avinox M2 cheap: 110 Nm 1000W / Boost 130 Nm 1300 W

 

[Wojtek]

Avinox M2S premium: 130 Nm 1300 W / Boost 150 Nm 1500 W
Avinox M2 cheap: 110 Nm 1000W / Boost 130 Nm 1300 W

i will take the one that is more reliable and quieter.

 

[xtraman122]

i will take the one that is more reliable and quieter.

And lighter

 

[sethimus]

I’ve been thinking this is past due as well. A 10 speed cassette that would make a little more room for a beefed up version of the t-type chain would be perfect for any of the full powered bikes now.

that would require a new derailleur for each type of cassette as here are no limit screws nor b screw on these derailleurs, how would you setup those for other cassettes?

 

[Yetimans]

Y más ligero

M2S 2.5 kg M2 : 2.8 kg

 

[TTEngineer]

that would require a new derailleur for each type of cassette as here are no limit screws nor b screw on these derailleurs, how would you setup those for other cassettes?

The transmission is all handled electronically with limits. That’s an easy software update.

You could also keep the same limits as 12 speed and just gap the cogs more to make room for the larger chain.

I’d still want a different rear mech though. Reduce chain line angles, shorter cage more compact setup. It would be better all round.

 

[xtraman122]

that would require a new derailleur for each type of cassette as here are no limit screws nor b screw on these derailleurs, how would you setup those for other cassettes?

You wouldn’t, it would be a fixed setup just like the current SRAM transmissions. It would be another option, a heavy duty one or something like that.

The T-Type is great and I love mine, but if these new motors truly have 1500W there is inevitably going to be an increase in drivetrain failures when people take SRAM’s messaging of “it shifts better under load” to heart going up hills in Turbo.

 

[sethimus]

You wouldn’t, it would be a fixed setup just like the current SRAM transmissions. It would be another option, a heavy duty one or something like that.

The T-Type is great and I love mine, but if these new motors truly have 1500W there is inevitably going to be an increase in drivetrain failures when people take SRAM’s messaging of “it shifts better under load” to heart going up hills in Turbo.

that’s why there is smooth shift. if you have an avinox and run transmission wireless, that’s on you if there is another, drivetrain friendlier option…

 

[ntm95]

I get you guys are all angry about “unnecessary power,” but I think you’re missing a huge point here.

Theoretically, with this motor having way more power, it should be wayyyyy more efficient in our normal power modes. I’m stoked for this and can’t wait to see how efficient this motor is in eco and auto tuned down.

That's not true at all.
Typically motors with more torque capacity will have a higher average current draw, but won't peak as high. And motors with less torque capacity will have lower average draw, but higher peak current draw.
This is with the motors in isolation, but when one factors in the drag from torque multiplication in a drivetrain, it's all the same.
More torque capacity will always equate to less efficiency at lighter loads. The counterpoint to that is how much time does the bike/drivetrain actually spend at lighter loads ?

 

[Suns_PSD]

Could have sworn that I had saw a diagram of 3 different Avinox motors.
The old one, the new M2 mid range product & the top of the line M2s.
Did the M2s diagram show a CF case?
What was the other stuff the diagram was showing?

 

[BT180]

Could have sworn that I had saw a diagram of 3 different Avinox motors.
The old one, the new M2 mid range product & the top of the line M2s.
Did the M2s diagram show a CF case?
What was the other stuff the diagram was showing?

Check my comment a page or 2 back. I grabbed the shot from a Youtube vid. Not sure how accurate it is, but aligned with my thoughts considering the "s" in the M2S name

 

[Powerslider]

Could have sworn that I had saw a diagram of 3 different Avinox motors.
The old one, the new M2 mid range product & the top of the line M2s.
Did the M2s diagram show a CF case?
What was the other stuff the diagram was showing?

Yeah, that screenshot implies there is a difference in the gear pack or something. Composite case seems like it wouldn’t be good for heat dissipation, but it sure looks like there’s woven mat.

The other thing that is clear from that pic is the M2 and M2S can hover in free space. The M1 needs a little stand. Impressive.

 

[ozzybmx]

I shredded a chain today, in the correct gear, on my Fazua 60.
I don't see how these new motors can run any drive train besides a Linkglide. The power is insane.
Sram really needs to design Transmission to have a really strong 9 or 10 gear version with first gear having around a 44-46t.

.... and simplify it, I bought the first version of XT Linkglide for my Ibis nearly 3yrs ago, then it went LG400, LG300, 11sp, 10spd... now Cues in all different combos. They also lightened the original XT LG400 cassette, mine was 800g for 11-51t, the next generation went down to somewhere around the 600g mark.

As you said, why doesn't Shimano or SRAM come out with a XTe or X0e/GXe groupset, 10 spd with 11-46t range, beefed up cassette and HD chain. None of this Cues crap in several levels, label it 'e' so there's no guess work and make a simple mechanical mid range drivetrain able to withstand the power of modern ebike motors.

 

[Powerslider]

.... and simplify it, I bought the first version of XT Linkglide for my Ibis nearly 3yrs ago, then it went LG400, LG300, 11sp, 10spd... now Cues in all different combos. They also lightened the original XT LG400 cassette, mine was 800g for 11-51t, the next generation went down to somewhere around the 600g mark.

As you said, why doesn't Shimano or SRAM come out with a XTe or X0e/GXe groupset, 10 spd with 11-46t range, beefed up cassette and HD chain. None of this Cues crap in several levels, label it 'e' so there's no guess work and make a simple mechanical mid range drivetrain able to withstand the power of modern ebike motors.

High-torque T-Type compatible chain sounds like a potential market opportunity. Cassettes can likely handle the situation but who knows really.

 

[slickrock]

Yeah, that screenshot implies there is a difference in the gear pack or something. Composite case seems like it wouldn’t be good for heat dissipation, but it sure looks like there’s woven mat.

View attachment 180143

Wait... that M2S looks to have CF housing. Mounting looks identical. Would like to see other side to see if there are chain guard mounts. What's the image source?

 

[Powerslider]

Wait... that M2S looks to have CF housing. Mounting looks identical. Would like to see other side to see if there are chain guard mounts. What's the image source?

Snipped from a post earlier in this thread.

 

[Wah]

Somebody already posted an actual picture of the M2S and it’s doesn’t look anything like that.

 

[ozzybmx]

High-torque T-Type compatible chain sounds like a potential market opportunity. Cassettes can likely handle the situation but who knows really.

I have no experience of T Type but the SRAM XX1/X0 chains are some of the best wearing chains available. I have just got 2000km out of a rainbow XX1 on my Amflow, its not completely worn yet but its nearly there, swapped because the XT cassette is stuffed and jumping on the highest 3 gears. So no point putting a partially worn chain on a new cassette or it will probably jump straight away and if not, will cause premature wear on the cassette.

Now went Shimano SLX 12spd cassette as the only difference between that and the XT is 1 extra alu cog, which is not even needed on an eeb. Paired with an X0 12spd chain... same wear rate as a XX1 but doesn't come in fancy colours and I picked up 3 of them for half the price of XX1's.

Someone make a 'E" labelled drivetrain in 10spd and make it simple.