Anyone have any information or rumors on an AVINOX 900+wh battery?

[Singletrackmind]

Trying to decide on my next bike that will definitely be powered by the latest Avinox M2S motor.

This will be a bike set up primarily for long days in the saddle and epic climbing.

Anyone with inside information or rumors on when Avinox will release a 900+wh battery?

 

[B Rabbit]

Trying to decide on my next bike that will definitely be powered by the latest Avinox M2S motor.

This will be a bike set up primarily for long days in the saddle and epic climbing.

Anyone with inside information or rumors on when Avinox will release a 900+wh battery?

I'd be guessing theyd release the new cell into the current 600 and 800wh battery cases upping them 10% (edit- this is inaccurate, the energy density of the new 700wh battery isnt a 10% increase on the old 6-800wh batteries) or so to get close to the 900wh. We'll at least i hope so. This was eluded to in Robs interview at the Avinox tent at sea otter.
12:20 mark.

 

[Singletrackmind]

I'd be guessing theyd release the new cell into the current 600 and 800wh battery cases upping them 10% or so to get close to the 900wh. We'll at least i hope so. This was eluded to in Robs interview at the Avinox tent at sea otter.
12:20 mark.

Thanks for sharing! Hopefully bigger capacity battery comes to fruition soon.

 

[Powerslider]

I'd be guessing theyd release the new cell into the current 600 and 800wh battery cases upping them 10% or so to get close to the 900wh. We'll at least i hope so. This was eluded to in Robs interview at the Avinox tent at sea otter.
12:20 mark.

I agree there will be updated batteries in the “old” form factor. I’m not as confident about a 10% increase in capacity though. I believe the primary improvement they’re focused on is the ability to deliver enough current to allow the M2S to produce full power like the FP700 does. Capacity improvements are likely to be a lot more modest than 10%.

 

[B Rabbit]

I agree there will be updated batteries in the “old” form factor. I’m not as confident about a 10% increase in capacity though. I believe the primary improvement they’re focused on is the ability to deliver enough current to allow the M2S to produce full power like the FP700 does. Capacity improvements are likely to be a lot more modest than 10%.

My bad, I thought I read the new 700 battery increased the wh per kg 10%, turns out it’s less then that.

 

[Singletrackmind]

I agree there will be updated batteries in the “old” form factor. I’m not as confident about a 10% increase in capacity though. I believe the primary improvement they’re focused on is the ability to deliver enough current to allow the M2S to produce full power like the FP700 does. Capacity improvements are likely to be a lot more modest than 10%.

Interesting point of view. I had the option to have a 600, 700 or 800wh battery on the bike I just ordered and went with the FP700 so I could enjoy the full power capabilities of the M2S motor.

I wonder how many riders would give up the 1500nm/1500w power output for a bigger 800wh battery but "only" have 130nm/1300w power spectrum?

 

[Miscel76]

The 700 watt battery in a large frame goes all the way up in the downtube. There is no room for a bigger battery. The only solution is a decent range extender 250/300 watt compact and not too ugly to carry around.

 

[Astro66]

Anyone with inside information or rumors on when Avinox will release a 900+wh battery?

Problem with the new cells, is they can only stack them in series. So the length of the downtube is already a bottleneck with the 700wHr battery. I guess they could stack them beside each other. But that is going to be one fat downtube, which destroys one of Avinox's biggest selling points.

So I'm guessing that to produce a 900wHr battery they would just make a bigger 21700 pack, which is just adding extra batteries, or choosing 21700 cells with a little more capacity. I don't see this happening soon. I think larger capacity is only gained through using an external 600wHr battery.

 

[slickrock]

The 700 watt battery in a large frame goes all the way up in the downtube. There is no room for a bigger battery. The only solution is a decent range extender 250/300 watt compact and not too ugly to carry around.

The FS800 is technically longer than the 700WH. Why wouldn't it fit? Perhaps too tall? Any frame besides that Crestline that supports all of the internal batteries?

 

[zizajaun]

Problem with the new cells, is they can only stack them in series. So the length of the downtube is already a bottleneck with the 700wHr battery. I guess they could stack them beside each other. But that is going to be one fat downtube, which destroys one of Avinox's biggest selling points.

So I'm guessing that to produce a 900wHr battery they would just make a bigger 21700 pack, which is just adding extra batteries, or choosing 21700 cells with a little more capacity. I don't see this happening soon. I think larger capacity is only gained through using an external 600wHr battery.

Or developing/using yet another cell. I think they missed a trick by not making the new cells even fatter, so that the down tube was a similar diameter to the old one. For a slight loss in aesthetics, they could have produced a 700-1000wh battery that sits lower down, nearer the BB, for improved handling, and/or has higher capacity. In theory they could produce such a cell to use in a higher-capacity battery that doesn't fit the PX, but I'd be surprised if they did. There a lots of good 21700 cells that can easily provide the required output in a more flexible package without reducing capacity (potentially even increasing it); the tricky part might be keeping the cost down, as high-power, high-capacity cells are more expensive than the LG M58T they currently use.

 

[DylanJM]

I'd be guessing theyd release the new cell into the current 600 and 800wh battery cases upping them 10% (edit- this is inaccurate, the energy density of the new 700wh battery isnt a 10% increase on the old 6-800wh batteries) or so to get close to the 900wh. We'll at least i hope so. This was eluded to in Robs interview at the Avinox tent at sea otter.
12:20 mark.

Surely the new cell would not work dimensionally in the old 600wh/800wh cases?

 

[tyrolrider]

On the other hand, a dealer told me, in their DJI B2B spare parts the other Day two more batteries popped up without further product text or prices.

- Avinox FP 320 Battery (3C), round (for the PX Downtube I guess)
- Avinox RS300 Battery (3C)

So my guess is the RS300 battery is a sleeker version of the RS600 and would fit the L PX frame, where space is limited on Size L (and M?) due to the Shock's Piggyback.

Any other info on those additional Batteries?

 

[tyrolrider]

Or developing/using yet another cell. I think they missed a trick by not making the new cells even fatter, so that the down tube was a similar diameter to the old one. For a slight loss in aesthetics, they could have produced a 700-1000wh battery that sits lower down, nearer the BB, for improved handling, and/or has higher capacity, with only a slight detriment to aesthetics. In theory they could produce such a cell to use in a higher-capacity battery that doesn't fit the PX, but I'd be surprised if they did. There a lots of good 21700 cells that can easily provide the required output in a more flexible package without reducing capacity (potentially even increasing it); the tricky part might be keeping the cost down, as high-power, high-capacity cells are more expensive than the LG M58T they currently use.

Exactly. I found and find the PL downtube still very nice to look at and sleek today. Of course the PX' DT is state of the Art, but it comes with limitations they could have avoided.

 

[David1960]

Trying to decide on my next bike that will definitely be powered by the latest Avinox M2S motor.

This will be a bike set up primarily for long days in the saddle and epic climbing.

Anyone with inside information or rumors on when Avinox will release a 900+wh battery?

I have the original pro carbon. There won’t be a 900 Wh battery. But I love original one. Don’t need more power. Would rather have extender or bigger battery. I don’t think 700 enough on new bikes. I would get deal on the original pro carbon- it’s amazing.

 

[tyrolrider]

I have the original pro carbon. There won’t be a 900 Wh battery. But I love original one. Don’t need more power. Would rather have extender or bigger battery. I don’t think 700 enough on new bikes. I would get deal on the original pro carbon- it’s amazing.

Sure, the PL is amazing, I loved it. but my Crew and I for example ride very steep and exposed uphill trails in the alps, of course downhill as well. if during a steep, exposed trail section you accidentally hit a obstacle with the front wheel and get a imbalance slope side, you want to get off the bike immediately to avoid falling down and worse the bike acting as a lever to amplify your fall. so long story short: the short Seattube and excellent seat tube insertion of the PX and PR series is amazingly helpful in such situations. drop the saddle as low as possible there.

I liked the PL very much, but the seat tube at 45 cm with Size L was always 3 cm too high. I once crashed into a steep ravine because of a bikes too long seat tube and too high saddle, and I couldn't get off the bike fast enough and got stuck at the saddle. that was 20 years ago and I miraculously got away with only minor bruises, but since then I always prefer short seat tubes and low saddles.

 

[Mlok]

I don't understand why it's such a problem for them to make a bigger battery, at least for the 1300W variant (with lower max current).
Rotwild shows that is not problem - 864Wh battery - 3,58kg:

R.EXC | ROTWILD Bikes

ROTWILD

www.rotwild.com

I have R.EX (with M1) with the same battery:

R.EX | ROTWILD Bikes

ROTWILD

www.rotwild.com

The downtube is not that big. And the battery is not that big either.

Rotwild uses newer 21700 cells with higher capacity (but with not enough max current for 1500W).
I'd actually prefer a slightly larger capacity (900-950W 4kg).

 

[David1960]

Sure, the PL is amazing, I loved it. but my Crew and I for example ride very steep and exposed uphill trails in the alps, of course downhill as well. if during a steep, exposed trail section you accidentally hit a obstacle with the front wheel and get a imbalance slope side, you want to get off the bike immediately to avoid falling down and worse the bike acting as a lever to amplify your fall. so long story short: the short Seattube and excellent seat tube insertion of the PX and PR series is amazingly helpful in such situations. drop the saddle as low as possible there.

I liked the PL very much, but the seat tube at 45 cm with Size L was always 3 cm too high. I once crashed into a steep ravine because of a bikes too long seat tube and too high saddle, and I couldn't get off the bike fast enough and got stuck at the saddle. that was 20 years ago and I miraculously got away with only minor bruises, but since then I always prefer short seat tubes and low saddles.

My friend has uno mith with Avinox motor. More enduro type. Great bike. Different set up.

 

[N19EGT]

Trying to decide on my next bike that will definitely be powered by the latest Avinox M2S motor.

This will be a bike set up primarily for long days in the saddle and epic climbing.

Anyone with inside information or rumors on when Avinox will release a 900+wh battery?

I’ve been told by a bike shop.
That there’s a 880 wh coming out in the summer. Along with a range extender.
The new battery will be the same size as the old 800wh, with 10% more WH’s

 

[E-NUB]

I think the power is there already, the real area for improvement is dropping weight!

 

[ntm95]

It'll likely be comprised of these, charge rate is the real upgrade:

Molicel INR21700-M65A - LG18650

E-One Moli new 21700 cell M65A is far the highest energy density 18650 in the industry:3.6V; 6.5Ah; 21700 Cylindrical 26A maximum discharge 0° to 60°C charge temperature -40° to 60°C discharge temperature Applications: Drone/UAS Robotics E Mobility etc.

egroup18650.com

 

[zizajaun]

It'll likely be comprised of these, charge rate is the real upgrade:

Molicel INR21700-M65A - LG18650

E-One Moli new 21700 cell M65A is far the highest energy density 18650 in the industry:3.6V; 6.5Ah; 21700 Cylindrical 26A maximum discharge 0° to 60°C charge temperature -40° to 60°C discharge temperature Applications: Drone/UAS Robotics E Mobility etc.

egroup18650.com

If so, I hope they make use of the higher charge limit. That's what's stopping me getting an Avinox bike now (I just cancelled my Velduro Rogue). But I think that would require a different charger, and I think they would want to use a different connector interface so you can't get the two mixed up (the old LG M58T cells are already being stretched beyond their nominal limit with the 12 amp charger, so charging them at 20+ amps would be dangerous), which would require a new wiring harness. That's a lot of changes to occur just a few months after the release of the latest motor.

 

[Highland Wheels]

I have the original pro carbon. There won’t be a 900 Wh battery. But I love original one. Don’t need more power. Would rather have extender or bigger battery. I don’t think 700 enough on new bikes. I would get deal on the original pro carbon- it’s amazing.

There very much will be a 900(+ maybe) battery coming this year that has the same form as the "current" 800s

 

[TheKaiser]

There very much will be a 900(+ maybe) battery coming this year that has the same form as the "current" 800s

Any idea if it'll allow the higher power output that the new 700 allows?

 

[ntm95]

Any idea if it'll allow the higher power output that the new 700 allows?

It definitely will, based on the fact that the current 58t cells are pretty limited for both charge and discharge rates, compared to other options.
I'm not sure why they did the 700wh battery honestly. A revamp of the current 600 and 800wh batteries with the molicell m65a's would have been just as good, if not better. Economics/availability most likely.

 

[Petrex]

Just from a logical point of view, I would expect new higher capacity packs to use the original form factor, but with newer higher capacity 21700 cells as mentioned by the experts.

Cell cross section image of the existing battery packs