Looking at the medium karve evo rsx - I’ve got one on order currently
2027 Orbea Wild LT Released - Avinox Powered
- Thread starter Rob Rides EMTB
- Start date
Rando_12345
E*POWAH Master
I agree, I think with a similar build as my current bike:
RS Zeb ultimate + vivid air ultimate
Dt swiss h1700
11speed XO1 drivetrain
Kryptotal DHs (closer to Enduro casing weights of other brands)
I would expect an M Wild LT to hit close to or under 22kg (800Wh and no pedals)
RS Zeb ultimate + vivid air ultimate
Dt swiss h1700
11speed XO1 drivetrain
Kryptotal DHs (closer to Enduro casing weights of other brands)
I would expect an M Wild LT to hit close to or under 22kg (800Wh and no pedals)
- Thread starter
- #243
Honestly that bike should be epic. I don’t think you will be disappointed (not tested it yet but on paper it’s looking very good)!
Appreciated Rob!
Rando_12345
E*POWAH Master
I'm 5ft10 also, my preferred reach is around 470mm with a 40mm stem, I think either an M or L would work for me but I'd probably go M.This is what scares me a little buying a bike before hopping on it. The Large is very close in numbers to my current S4 enduro which I love so I'm hopeful the Wild will be a similar fit. But at 5 ft 10in, I'm sort of between sizes which is always fun
If I went M: high setting reach is 462mm, could add a 5mm reach headset or just a slightly longer stem and be fine.
I'd you go L, then consider riding the bike in low position 480mm reach and then putting a 180mm fork to reduce the reach another few mm, reach adjust -5mm and we are back to just above 470mm.
Plummet
Flash Git
What bikes and what sizes are you comparing to? because it looks bang in the sweet spot as far as i can see.
What reach do you need and what wb are you trying to achieve?
In an XL I'd likely shop for a Crestie with the adjustable CS length, or the E-Dread.
I know that you know this, just putting it out there.
erikulator
Member
The last Wild had cheap/weak bearing hardware. Only one bearing per chainstay and no dust seals! Way behind competition! I hope they improved the hardware on the Wild LT. Has anyone seen or heard about bearing hardware upgrades from the last Wild? I don't see the new model manual on the Orbea website yet
deanFBM
Member
My medium heckler sl is 21kg sans pedals, Zeb, coil, maven, dh tyres, carbon mx wheels, t-type.
XL wild lt 23.7kg. If I went medium (-.03kg), 600wh (-0.9kg), 11speef mechanical drivetrain (-0.4kg), mx (-0.2kg), I'd want to remove the RS controller, mechanical dropper, under 22kg should be very achievable, right?
As you say, wild frame is the same weight as an unno mith, so real weights people have gotten on unno mith builds will be representative.
Discounting the stability from the geometry on the wild lt, maybe considering the unno mith as an equivalent example, how much of the negative ebike handling traits do you have on these bikes? Think front end riding like a stapler due to weigh distribution, battery weight up high and forward. Think bike pulling you down the hill on steep braking.
My heckler sl rides flipping amazing in terms of not having bad ebike handling traits, I'd like to swap from this and my dh bike to having a single enduro ebike, but concerned on bad handling traits, do you think a an unno mith or wild lt will achieve this?
XL wild lt 23.7kg. If I went medium (-.03kg), 600wh (-0.9kg), 11speef mechanical drivetrain (-0.4kg), mx (-0.2kg), I'd want to remove the RS controller, mechanical dropper, under 22kg should be very achievable, right?
As you say, wild frame is the same weight as an unno mith, so real weights people have gotten on unno mith builds will be representative.
Discounting the stability from the geometry on the wild lt, maybe considering the unno mith as an equivalent example, how much of the negative ebike handling traits do you have on these bikes? Think front end riding like a stapler due to weigh distribution, battery weight up high and forward. Think bike pulling you down the hill on steep braking.
My heckler sl rides flipping amazing in terms of not having bad ebike handling traits, I'd like to swap from this and my dh bike to having a single enduro ebike, but concerned on bad handling traits, do you think a an unno mith or wild lt will achieve this?
Nomadic Dad
Active member
Interesting to know the carbon Wild is same weight as the Unno Mith but think it's importantl to remember the cheaper aluminium frame versions will be at least 1.5kg heavier so over 25kg it seems
Rockman88
Member
Any real world photos of the H20? Great price, although only the base M2 motor.
- Thread starter
- #252
The Alloy frame weights 4.5KG versus the Carbon 2.6KG
Rando_12345
E*POWAH Master
With a 600wh I would think 22kg is fairly easy, at least with air suspension.
I'm second guessing myself on 22kg with the 800wh, as my maths previously always accounted for the battery in the derailleur + a specific pod controller. Now with the level of integration maybe going mechanical doesn't save you much weight at all when housing+cables are included...
Still convinced 22.5kg without spending much and having it bulletproof is doable.
- Thread starter
- #255
I dont think so to be totally honest. Never say never though!
I have a. question, with the new Bosch update, which is significant, why haven't you done a video discussing it, which covers lots of points that you have above which would show the avinox lacking in this area. It appears Orbea knew this, didnt like the Avinox and wanted to adjust this. Which is interesting in its self.
Comparing the motors technical riding ability is an important selling point. Its a major software release and just as important as the Avinox releases.
Considering your high profile, not doing a video about it, seems to indicate bias rather than doing one about it and disliking it. Now luckily we are a small niche on the Internet and we can use our keyboards to call each other out... it adds to the fun and interest of users, drive traffic and interest in the subject.
When the M2S launched you did about six videos. Now im not the content police, but knowing all bikes as well as I know them and the industry, then seeing (not just you) but major content makers cover the Bosch release in such a feeble or non existent way, when it deserves some time based content coverage and comparison, as it is a major response to the competition, is it enough? I don't know, is it politics only? Is it not really a tech upgrade?
This time consideration is of high significance in my opinion due to of the current market competition . In the past you have done plenty of comparisons. They are some of your most watched videos. Right now it looks like controlled content hyping, which I believe distorts the reality for users.
A major motor maker (not Bosch) told (im paraphrasing now) me that my content is "reassuring to all users," the differences exist are there, but the need to change product every five minutes is not and all kinds of brands and users can feel a negative take on their bike not being good enough when really it is extremely good.
In fact when I have tested as many motors as I have, one remains convinced there is no correct one motor solution for everyone. This I underline by doing as much coverage as I can of every motor system, whether paid content or not.
My personal favourite motors which i ride everyday for myself are the TQ60 and the MAXON Air S. These two motors have another whole ride feel to them that differs again.
Now I have worked for magazines and media houses and I still do, they have been slowly replaced by Youtubers. I also teach media at University and have directed my students on the courses I teach to observe what's happening to media bias and commentate on it and compare to other sectors to analyse and examine of which we have done so with bike media as well and how Social media is taking over.
There is a difference in approach to both media methods. The one key thing though that a media house as big as the ones I have worked for is that bias can be seen clearly by the public.
If you go in all the comment sections now on every channel, Its clear the public sees bias and they also accuse me of it even. The Youtube colab model has its place but people are tired of it at the moment and the Avinox hype train in the context of what we are discussing. I realise that its a big story, I am even testing a few bikes now (unpaid) to make sure that they are covered but doing it cautiously, as im sick of the hype train myself as it ignores the bike.
I argue there is ZERO problem with paid content, as long as its not the only thing one does. Media channels can build balance by factoring in other content that doesn't blow their Youtube model apart.
All the marketing managers are aware of who does what and how it affects things that the public sees and does. They are also all really annoyed with the clear bias that the internet as a whole has produced, including brands that have multi models with both systems.
Product managers fitting Avinox just because they "need to" not because they want to... tail wagging the dog.
The hyperbolic words used to describe features that are present on nearly all systems but apparently have been invented by the new pretender...
Take the the "slim" battery of Avinox. Its the same size in Xsection as the Bosch 600wh. no difference. The 800wh battery is fatter and shorter whilst avinox is thinner and longer. The avinox doesn't use mounting hardware as well so is lighter. The Bosch battery is fatter as product managers wanted that for weight distribution. Previously 70 percent of people wanted to remove their battery and did so for charging and winter storage for battery lifespan. Examining this is a highly important point, does not make the avinox method wrong, but cell arrangement being something that conquered the market is probably the story and why it is that way its not the "tech".
Finally when I have done back to back comparisons of the Avinox verses the Bosch new software, on a flat slightly inclined gently winding trail, it was actually the point where you can feel the difference in the motor response more than anywhere, which surprised me a great deal. if I explained to people the if and the why in detail, the consumer would have a clearer picture of what is actually going on, focusing on that though Im seen as biased for actually explaining whats happening... LOL So none of us can win...
Im glad your forum exists as these questions honestly wouldn't have a place to be discussed the way we can, you provide a valuable townsquare for English and Im glad to see your content and what you do. Gives me something to compete against, think about and also push back against, bike media needs this service!
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That's a big difference! I always thought more or less 1kg more for an alloy frame, and the Wild's simple rear end isn't an obvious target for weight gain. I'm surprised at the delta.
- Thread starter
- #258
ON the Bosch video point, the simple truth is, that I was due to do a collab with Bosch on the release of Performance Update 2.0 and go to the launch event, but the agency they use messed up the admin / travel side, so I couldn't cover it how I planned.
That's not me avoiding the update or deciding Bosch doesn't need coverage. I do think its significant I will be definitely covering it soon.
The wider reality of the situation is that almost all bikes / brands that are releasing the most talked about new bikes are releasing Avinox powered bikes. Those brands have reached out to me, supplied bikes and arranged launches to cover them and produce content for the release.
This year, not a single Bosch brand has asked for content / sent a bike for a video - other than Marin, and I've just picked up their new Bosch powered ebike that I will be making content on, which I'm looking forward to testing out.
Bosch’s update is good, and I do think it deserves coverage. But Avinox has been a brand new motor system with M2s, with new bikes, new batteries, new brands with new bike platforms and a lot of wider industry movement around which naturally creates more videos and content around it.
I understand why you might ask about coverage balance but not every gap in coverage is evidence of some wider media conspiracy. Sometimes the explanation is boring...the planned Bosch coverage didn’t happen because the logistics got cocked up, while the Avinox bikes kept turning up.
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That may be true, but it's the same as on my 2022 Trek Rail that's done over 7000km without any problems. Although to be fair my riding conditions are very dry so maybe riding in wet/muddy terrain might not be comparable.
@Rob Rides EMTB : In your video on the Unno Mith, you mention that the Mith weighs around 22 kg. Since the weight of frame, motor, and battery are essentially the same as on the Orbea, it seems that, at least in theory, the Orbea should also be able to reach a similar weight with an equivalent build. Am I missing something, or does that sound about right?
- Thread starter
- #261
yes. Main thing on the Mith:
210 dropper was lighter than 240
MX Carbon wheelset lighter (the Newman Carbon wheelset was really light)
Enduro Conti tyres lighter
Likely the Mith frame in XL lighter than the Wild XL frame
Maybe a few more bits. If I remember the Mith was 22.17KG
This is the sort of detailed analysis I like.
Most buyers give little consideration to the build seemingly unaware of how certain brands get their specs really light and others don't.
Heck I could slap on my Enduro build Berds with Exo+tires and my 175mm KS Lev Ci dropper on my own Wild would weigh 45.5#s easily even with the heavier coil suspension.
Mario Antony
Active member
If you come from a Bosch CX5...
Well, nevertheless, I'd say: Thank you Orbea, for showing everyone, that you can make a Better M2S, with less power!
A question for those owning the Bosch gen5 version of the Wild.
How is this part of the frame holding up? It's held together with a bolt, just like the left Shimano crank.
On the Bosch Wild It's on the bottom of the linkage, but on the Avinox Wild they changed it to the top.
Gaps like that on hard working linkage points kinda scream weak point...
How is this part of the frame holding up? It's held together with a bolt, just like the left Shimano crank.
On the Bosch Wild It's on the bottom of the linkage, but on the Avinox Wild they changed it to the top.
Gaps like that on hard working linkage points kinda scream weak point...
Singletrackmind
Well-known member
I had over 1,000 miles on my 2 previous Bosch Gen 4 & Gen 5 Wilds and never had any issues with my frames what so ever.A question for those owning the Bosch gen5 version of the Wild.
How is this part of the frame holding up? It's held together with a bolt, just like the left Shimano crank.
On the Bosch Wild It's on the bottom of the linkage, but on the Avinox Wild they changed it to the top.
Gaps like that on hard working linkage points kinda scream weak point...
View attachment 187085
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View attachment 187083
Only issue I had even remotely was the knuckle chowder who installed my rear coil shock stripped out the bolt and I had to drill it out, order new hardwarefrom Orbea. Nothing to do with design of frame.
I wonder is it the same on the aluminium version? Maybe some kind of manufacturing-related benefit?On the Bosch Wild It's on the bottom of the linkage, but on the Avinox Wild they changed it to the top.
Gaps like that on hard working linkage points kinda scream weak point...
The aluminium suspension rocker on my Trek Rail doesn't have this kind of gap, but I noticed that other Trek bikes with the same suspension rocker did. Clearly there was a design choice to include it on some but not other models
That's reassuring, but 1000 miles isn't a lot.
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