2027 Orbea Wild LT Released - Avinox Powered

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Regarding this "start up" motor reactivity tune feature on the motors: To me, its literally <5% of importance versus the rest of the bike, motor and ecosystem

It’s such a small part to my riding experience that I really dont think it’s *that* big of a deal at all. IMO.

For some maybe its the most important thing, but I literally think most people are not that bothered by it at all.

There's so much more to how an emtb performs. Geometry, suspension, Motor ecosystem, travel, brakes, tyres, all matter WAY more in the grand scheme of things that the startup characteristic of a motor.

We can sweat the tiny motor reactivity details a ton, but its just such a small inconsequential factor for pretty much every rider I've met, that it really doesnt seem to bother me *most* people at all. I dont think I've ever spoken to anyone that it bothers - I cant remember anyone at all mentioning it in real life!

The RS tune is faster than standard Avinox, but I would happily take a bike that has the other 95% of stuff that I place far more priority over.

For some, motor startup might be a big deal. For me, and probably for a lot of riders, it’s one detail among many. I’d still rather have the bike that gets the other 95% right than obsess over one tiny part of the motor feel.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

strange isnt it... I do believe that there has been too much of.... something... going on... rather than reporting on how all the motor systems actually work. They have been afraid, for what reason i dont understand... or maybe no one actually understood and didn't have the experience and needed myself and or a bike company to explain it to them...

As I have said numerous times, all the engineers understood exactly what I have been saying.

If someone’s personal priority on a motor / emtb is instant motor pickup for technical climbing, fair enough. I think you prefer the Bosch feel over Avinox. Thats totally fine. But not everyone does.

It doesn’t mean every reviewer is dishonest for putting that lower down the list of priorities. So I don’t agree with the idea that reviewers are being dishonest, afraid, or don’t understand bikes simply because they don’t put one specific motor characteristic at the centre of a review.

 

[dirtsufer]

Does anybody know if the mullet or 29" rocker will be available to buy from the Orbea Spare Part Shop?

I'm wondering the same thing. My LBS cannot even help me complete a MyO order yet though let alone know if they'll be able to get spare rockers. Really wish the configurator included the option to buy the extra link. Maybe it will in the coming weeks

 

[Suns_PSD]

Regarding this "start up" motor reactivity tune feature on the motors. Bosch vs Avinox etc.

To me, its literally <5% of importance versus the rest of the bike. Its such a small part to my riding experience that I really dont think its *that* big of a deal at all. IMO.

For some maybe its the most important thing, but I literally think most people are not that bothered by it at all.

There's so much more to how an emtb performs. Geometry, suspension, travel, brakes, tyres, all matter WAY more in the grand scheme of things that the startup characteristic of a motor.

We can sweat the tiny motor reactivity details a ton, but its just such a small inconsequential factor for pretty much every rider I've met, that it really doesnt seem to bother me *most* people at all. I dont think I've ever spoken to anyone that it bothers - I cant remember anyone at all mentioning it in real life!

The RS tune is faster than standard Avinox, but I would happily take a bike that has the other 95% of stuff that I place far more priority over.

For some, motor startup might be a big deal. For me, and probably for a lot of riders, it’s one detail among many. I’d still rather have the bike that gets the other 95% right than obsess over one tiny part of the motor feel.

I agree with you but generally speaking your reviews as well as most other e-bike reviewers have put tremendous focus specifically on the Avinox motors and its old response rate as a Pro, to now say it's 'only 5%' strikes me as odd.

But, yah, the motors just push you up the uncomfortable grades, the motor overall isn't that important really. I just want it to be quiet, reliable, long term serviceable, and have somewhere around 600 watts which is enough with a reasonably sized battery. With those features in place, I can ride at my max capabilities.

 

[Tokidokijake]

@Rob Rides EMTB , did you feel the bike was better as a 29’er or MX? Seems like quite a few of the things I’ve read have people preferring the 29’er route but I’m wondering if that has more to do with the location the bikes were ridden. Would love to hear your perspective. Thanks!

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

I agree with you but generally speaking your reviews as well as most other e-bike reviewers have put tremendous focus specifically on the Avinox motors and its old response rate as a Pro, to now say it's 'only 5%' strikes me as odd.

But, yah, the motors just push you up the uncomfortable grades, the motor overall isn't that important really. I just want it to be quiet, reliable, long term serviceable, and have somewhere around 600 watts which is enough with a reasonably sized battery. With those features in place, I can ride at my max capabilities.

When I say ‘5%’ I’m talking specifically about the nuance of the start up feel / reactivity of the motor being of such importance versus the rest of the bike/geo/motor ecosystem and spec

I absolutely agree that the motor system as a whole matters a lot. Power, support feel, battery size, software features ,fast charging etc etc

But that’s different from saying one very specific part of the motor feel, the initial pickup response from a standstill / slow moving should dominate an overall review. Its a small part of it.

EG I think somewhere along the lines of this:

- Motor system, battery size - 30%
- Geometry / sizing / weight distribution - 30%
- Suspension travel & chassis - 20%
- Specification / brakes / tyres / wheels - 15%
- Motor start-up reactivity / initial pickup - 5%

 

[Ou812]

At 170cm would you go small and do a +5 headset or medium and do a -5 headset? I tend to prefer around a 440-445 reach so kind of in the middle of the small and medium.

 

[ntm95]

Hi Rob, on a similar note, do you know if all 800wh Avinox bikes (with internal battery) are able to have a 600wh swapped in, or does it require a different set of fittings? I know the new removable 800/600wh batteries have been designed to fit in the same space, but the internal 600 is so much shorter that I've been having trouble imagining how it can be mounted to the same fittings as the internal 800, however I have seen reference to some of the original Amflow bikes being (theoretically) available with a 600wh fitted stock, so clearly there is some ability to swap, but wasn't sure if that was due to Amflow integrating a second fitting that is perhaps not used by other brands.

The 800wh top bolt is secured by a bolt that goes throught the battery and into a threaded insert in the frame. The display has to be removed to access it on most frames.
The 600wh top bolt is the same as the lower, just a bolt through the frame into a threaded insert in the battery itself.
Compatibility is just as easy as providing another hole in the downtube to secure the 600wh. Forbidden's e-bikes have it, I'd be surprised if orbea missed that.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

The 800wh top bolt is secured by a bolt that goes throught the battery and into a threaded insert in the frame. The display has to be removed to access it on most frames.
The 600wh top bolt is the same as the lower, just a bolt through the frame into a threaded insert in the battery itself.
Compatibility is just as easy as providing another hole in the downtube to secure the 600wh. Forbidden's e-bikes have it, I'd be surprised if orbea missed that.

Theyve changed it recently. Most new bikes have both top and bottom bolts as inserts on the battery. It uses a new top cap on the 800wh battery to achieve this. No longer need to take out the display to remove the top bolt (its underside of donwtube).

 

[nickf]

I’d still rather have the bike that gets the other 95% right than obsess over one tiny part of the motor feel.

You must be new to this forum!

 

[notaninfluencer]

If someone’s personal priority on a motor / emtb is instant motor pickup for technical climbing, fair enough. I think you prefer the Bosch feel over Avinox. Thats totally fine. But not everyone does.

It doesn’t mean every reviewer is dishonest for putting that lower down the list of priorities. So I don’t agree with the idea that reviewers are being dishonest, afraid, or don’t understand bikes simply because they don’t put one specific motor characteristic at the centre of a review.

I would say not even mentioned it is the problem. It is a major motor character thats ignoredd, how it rides. Back when the Fazua ride 50 came out, you were the first to mention the engagement as an important element of how that motor worked. as the freewheel and hub togther gave a huge lag if i remember correctly. So in that sense you led the way.

 

[ntm95]

Theyve changed it recently. Most new bikes have both top and bottom bolts as inserts on the battery. It uses a new top cap on the 800wh battery to achieve this. No longer need to take out the display to remove the top bolt (its underside of donwtube).

View attachment 187027

That's certainly a more sensible design from a frame production standpoint. Blind inserts are always a liability, particularly on the interior of a mold.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

I would say not even mentioned it is the problem. It is a major motor character thats ignoredd, how it rides. Back when the Fazua ride 50 came out, you were the first to mention the engagement as an important element of how that motor worked. as the freewheel and hub togther gave a huge lag if i remember correctly. So in that sense you led the way.

The Fazua was totally different, it has only 24(or28) points of engagement on the motor pawls before the chainring even started moving. It has a ton of free float in the cranks before it even engaged the motor. Thats a seperate issue verses motor pickup speed, in my opinion. Avinox picks up up the chainring movement immediately (funnily enough Bosch also has ratchet points before the motor picks up with distinct ratchet clicks).

Alex, I do I mention it in my videos! To imply its never mentioned is simply untrue.

In my very first Amflow video 18 months ago, I said this:

“Sometimes when I’m starting off on really steep stuff it’s sometimes a little bit more difficult to control…
“I find it tricky to actually get started in a controlled manner…"

In the most recent Amflow video I say this of the M2S motor:

"“Down low, it doesn’t have a lot of punch…”

AND I also say:

“Sometimes I would like a little bit more punch down low… rock climbs, really technical crux moves where you kind of start, stop on the pedals, it doesn’t give that instant boost that some other bikes do. And I think I would like to see that added.”"

In this video (Amflow Deep Dive Questions)

I say: "They do feel quite different under the power delivery as well. Like the Bosch seems to accelerate quicker as soon as you put your foot on the pedal. The DJI takes a little bit more to get it going, but then after you’re going, the DJI just takes off…"

“That’s one thing that I prefer about the Bosch, the overrun is repeatable 100% of the time.” AND “For technical climbs, if you love that kind of stuff, these (Avinox) can do it. They’re just a little bit harder.”

I think we’re massively over weighting one very specific motor characteristic here. Start up reactivity matters, especially for certain technical climbing situations, but in the grand scheme of what makes an eMTB or motor system good, I don’t think it makes anywhere near the difference being suggested.

You prefer the instant Bosch response, others prefer a smoother slower power delivery. Both can be correct! Neither view is wrong.

I will also say it again:
Repeatedly implying that reviewers or YouTubers are being dishonest, afraid to say something, or not doing their job properly just because they don’t weight this issue the same way as you is unfair. Different reviewers can have different priorities without there being some hidden agenda.

If someone cares deeply about motor startup response, that’s totally valid. But that doesn’t make everyone else dishonest for seeing it as one detail among many.

 

[MeatBike]

@Rob Rides EMTB would you buy a Wild LT with your own money, vs all the other ebikes on the market?

Full fat bikes aren't for me*, I'm just curious. Maybe you cover this in your video but I haven't had time to watch it yet.

*The H10 model probably would be close to the top of my list if I was interested, since I'm a big fan of my Rise LT.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

@Rob Rides EMTB would you buy a Wild LT with your own money, vs all the other ebikes on the market?

Full fat bikes aren't for me*, I'm just curious. Maybe you cover this in your video but I haven't had time to watch it yet.

*The H10 model probably would be close to the top of my list if I was interested, since I'm a big fan of my Rise LT.

No, the XL geo doesnt work for me personally - I am trying to get a Large to try, with a +5mm reach adjust.

 

[dirtsufer]

No, the XL geo doesnt work for me personally - I am trying to get a Large to try, with a +5mm reach adjust.

This is what scares me a little buying a bike before hopping on it. The Large is very close in numbers to my current S4 enduro which I love so I'm hopeful the Wild will be a similar fit. But at 5 ft 10in, I'm sort of between sizes which is always fun

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

This is what scares me a little buying a bike before hopping on it. The Large is very close in numbers to my current S4 enduro which I love so I'm hopeful the Wild will be a similar fit. But at 5 ft 10in, I'm sort of between sizes which is always fun

I think the L has a better balance for sure - and you always have the option of +5 or -5 reach adjust to add extra front centre / reach

 

[Brawwp]

@Rob Rides EMTB are you mostly comparing the start torque from stock avinox setting or with “quick start” feature toggled on. I feel quick start made big difference on the regular m2s. I don’t see needing more bottom end torque than that without it lifting the front or spinning the rear wheel. I guess you can just ride out a higher gear though to offset that. I’m also lighter so I can see this being better for heavier guys too.

I’d bet they let orbea get their sales for a bit then release the tune in an update. Excited to try it if that’s happens

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

@Rob Rides EMTB are you mostly comparing the start torque from stock avinox setting or with “quick start” feature toggled on. I feel quick start made big difference on the regular m2s. I don’t see needing more bottom end torque than that without it lifting the front or spinning the rear wheel. I guess you can just ride out a higher gear though to offset that. I’m also lighter so I can see this being better for heavier guys too.

I’d bet they let orbea get their sales for a bit then release the tune in an update. Excited to try it if that’s happens

Yes, I always use Quick Start on. Thats how I would compare it.

 

[Suns_PSD]

I did want to bring up another topic as it applies to all the modern Avinox bikes being released:

This total shredder NIC ADV just posted a review on the new Pivot AMPed. Specifically, when talking in the video and in the comments about the long skinny 800WH battery in the Avinox AMPed vs. the short fat 800wh battery in the Bosch Pivot LT, he said that the LT feels notably lighter and more maneuverable due to the lower center of gravity and that on the AMPed he'd prefer to have less power and make do with the 600wh battery for this reason. This is even more relevant considering the LT is longer, slacker & more travel AND has the 800wh battery.

It's just something to consider. I was picking up on this subtle detail reading many bike reviews and I knew that I wanted a bike with a 600wh battery which is appropriate for my terrain and fitness level, or if I had to have an 800 wh battery that I'd specifically choose a Bosch bike (i.e. Yeti Lte or Norco VLT Range) precisely for the better handling fatter more squat 800wh battery. Yes, it doesn't look as good, yet over and over people acknowledge that it just handles better.

 

[Tokidokijake]

I did want to bring up another topic as it applies to all the modern Avinox bikes being released:

This total shredder NIC ADV just posted a review on the new Pivot AMPed. Specifically, when talking in the video and in the comments about the long skinny 800WH battery in the Avinox AMPed vs. the short fat 800wh battery in the Bosch Pivot LT, he said that the LT feels notably lighter and more maneuverable due to the lower center of gravity and that on the AMPed he'd prefer to have less power and make do with the 600wh battery for this reason. This is even more relevant considering the LT is longer, slacker & more travel AND has the 800wh battery.

It's just something to consider. I was picking up on this subtle detail reading many bike reviews and I knew that I wanted a bike with a 600wh battery which is appropriate for my terrain and fitness level, or if I had to have an 800 wh battery that I'd specifically choose a Bosch bike (i.e. Yeti Lte or Norco VLT Range) precisely for the better handling fatter more squat 800wh battery. Yes, it doesn't look as good, yet over and over people acknowledge that it just handles better.

This has been my experience on my Druid E with the 800 battery. Weight itself isn’t super high but the bike feels heavier than other bikes due to where the weight is placed, particularly when leaning the bike over on turns. I’d prefer to throw a 600 in it but can’t find one to purchase.

 

[dirtsufer]

This has been my experience on my Druid E with the 800 battery. Weight itself isn’t super high but the bike feels heavier than other bikes due to where the weight is placed, particularly when leaning the bike over on turns. I’d prefer to throw a 600 in it but can’t find one to purchase.

Even Ollie at Forbidden prefers the 600 battery in the new dreadnought...which is funny because you can't buy the bike with the 600. I personally want the 600 for the lower weight and handling. I plan to down tune the motor and eek out more range and use the quick charging on bigger days.

 

[Suns_PSD]

This has been my experience on my Druid E with the 800 battery. Weight itself isn’t super high but the bike feels heavier than other bikes due to where the weight is placed, particularly when leaning the bike over on turns. I’d prefer to throw a 600 in it but can’t find one to purchase.

It's interesting to me that some people that have access to both batteries, have in every single instance I've read expressed a preference for the 600wh. People like Mike Kazimer & Dario @ PB, like Ollie at Forbidden, like NIC ADV, like several posters on this very forum. Brain Cahal rated the E-Druid Lite with a 600wh battery as 'Goated' his top rating for its handling prowess, but not the E-Naught.

But on the sales floor, manufacturers struggle to give away the 600wh battery bikes.

Given that battery technology does seem a bit stalled out, maybe one of the light motor systems, running no more than 750 watts, that can make do with a 600 wh battery, is really the ideal platform for e-bikes? We used to say 'well it barely takes more weight in the motor to make more power', and this is true. But in reality, we are still battery limited (and drivetrain!) so in that context a highly efficient and light motor system such as the Maxon makes great sense whereas a larger more powerful wh-hungry motor with current battery technology, really doesn't make sense for many riders.

Like if this new Wild had the Maxon with the newest cellular tech 600wh battery mounted really low and was consequently 3#s lighter than my current Wild with considerably better efficiency, I'd 100% have to buy it. I don't care about >100 nm of torque. But I'm likely in the minority in wanting this as power sells.

I get that many riders sort of 'tour' and that's a different thing where handling is not prioritized and range is.

 

[Brawwp]

It's just something to consider. I was picking up on this subtle detail reading many bike reviews and I knew that I wanted a bike with a 600wh battery which is appropriate for my terrain and fitness level, or if I had to have an 800 wh battery that I'd specifically choose a Bosch bike (i.e. Yeti Lte or Norco VLT Range) precisely for the better handling fatter more squat 800wh battery. Yes, it doesn't look as good, yet over and over people acknowledge that it just handles better.

You’re pulling at straws man. We get it. You got the Bosch wild and it’s actually the best bike ever. Everything else has bad dropper insertion, rattles, illegal, and has 2inches of battery higher that make it a terrible ride.

Unless you ride an 800 Bosch and Avinox 800 literally back to back, you will never notice the difference while you’re wiping smashed bugs out of your grinning teeth on the Avinox. You’re talking about .1 lbs higher up. The Avinox package overall is lighter (motor, battery, bike). But sure the weight is distributed a little longer on the downtube. Your profile pic is you riding with a backpack. That’s 10x worse than 2 inches of battery weight.

 

[Tokidokijake]

It's interesting to me that some people that have access to both batteries, have in every single instance I've read expressed a preference for the 600wh. People like Mike Kazimer & Dario @ PB, like Ollie at Forbidden, like NIC ADV, like several posters on this very forum. Brain Cahal rated the E-Druid Lite with a 600wh battery as 'Goated' his top rating for its handling prowess, but not the E-Naught.

But on the sales floor, manufacturers struggle to give away the 600wh battery bikes.

Given that battery technology does seem a bit stalled out, maybe one of the light motor systems, running no more than 750 watts, that can make do with a 600 wh battery, is really the ideal platform for e-bikes? We used to say 'well it barely takes more weight in the motor to make more power', and this is true. But in reality, we are still battery limited (and drivetrain!) so in that context a highly efficient and light motor system such as the Maxon makes great sense whereas a larger more powerful wh-hungry motor with current battery technology, really doesn't make sense for many riders.

Like if this new Wild had the Maxon with the newest cellular tech 600wh battery mounted really low and was consequently 3#s lighter than my current Wild with considerably better efficiency, I'd 100% have to buy it. I don't care about >100 nm of torque. But I'm likely in the minority in wanting this as power sells.

I get that many riders sort of 'tour' and that's a different thing where handling is not prioritized and range is.

Yea I’ve asked my LBS for a 600 and they couldn’t procure one. If someone knows where to grab one please hit me up!

 

[Suns_PSD]

You’re pulling at straws man. We get it. You got the Bosch wild and it’s actually the best bike ever. Everything else has bad dropper insertion, rattles, illegal, and has 2inches of battery higher that make it a terrible ride.

Unless you ride an 800 Bosch and Avinox 800 literally back to back, you will never notice the difference while you’re wiping smashed bugs out of your grinning teeth on the Avinox. You’re talking about .1 lbs higher up. The Avinox package overall is lighter (motor, battery, bike). But sure the weight is distributed a little longer on the downtube. Your profile pic is you riding with a backpack. That’s 10x worse than 2 inches of battery weight.

Nah, we're all splitting hairs here man. That's what we do. The last generation Levo was 90% as good as any modern e-bike after-all and was released half a decade ago.
There is a real handling advantage to the 600wh battery, that's pretty apparent. So, choosing a motor system that works best around that only makes sense and that's neither the Bosch nor the Avinox. But I'll agree that is probably getting outside of the scope of this particular thread except to say, choose battery size wisely!

 

[Brawwp]

Nah, we're all splitting hairs here man. That's what we do. The last generation Levo was 90% as good as any modern e-bike after-all and was released half a decade ago.
There is a real handling advantage to the 600wh battery, that's pretty apparent. So, choosing a motor system that works best around that only makes sense and that's neither the Bosch nor the Avinox. But I'll agree that is probably getting outside of the scope of this particular thread except to say, order wisely!

dude at this point, if your local dealer gets an Avinox orbea demo I will literally Venmo you towards a day demo just so we have some merit behind all your Avinox criticisms lol.

 

[Petrex]

Whatever you do, do NOT buy any bike until someone who is the first bike tester and is not an influencer tells you the truth and the facts, and gives it his blessing.

 

[Brawwp]

Whatever you do, do NOT buy any bike until someone who is the first bike tester and is not an influencer tells you the truth and the facts, and gives it his blessing.

everybody has bias. Your best bet is to demo yourself. Just because someone criticizes something doesn’t mean they’re fully trustworthy or unbiased. There’s also stoke behind anything new and popular. Take this low end torque thing. Wasn’t everybody just going on about wanting “natural” feeling emtb. Now all the sudden the Bosch torqueiness is preferred and Avinox is catching up lol. Having a motor immediately kick in providing heavier assistance isn’t natural, but I’m sure it’s sick and I do want to try it.

The good news is every major system out now is truly good. I just hope we don’t complain to the point of restricting the progress because we’re in an awesome time for emtb tech

 

[Powerslider]

I did want to bring up another topic as it applies to all the modern Avinox bikes being released:

This total shredder NIC ADV just posted a review on the new Pivot AMPed. Specifically, when talking in the video and in the comments about the long skinny 800WH battery in the Avinox AMPed vs. the short fat 800wh battery in the Bosch Pivot LT, he said that the LT feels notably lighter and more maneuverable due to the lower center of gravity and that on the AMPed he'd prefer to have less power and make do with the 600wh battery for this reason. This is even more relevant considering the LT is longer, slacker & more travel AND has the 800wh battery.

It's just something to consider. I was picking up on this subtle detail reading many bike reviews and I knew that I wanted a bike with a 600wh battery which is appropriate for my terrain and fitness level, or if I had to have an 800 wh battery that I'd specifically choose a Bosch bike (i.e. Yeti Lte or Norco VLT Range) precisely for the better handling fatter more squat 800wh battery. Yes, it doesn't look as good, yet over and over people acknowledge that it just handles better.

Fair point really. Physics demands battery weight being higher; along with a lighter motor means the bike's center of gravity has to be somewhat higher. This is an example of why I find it difficult to respect how much importance many put in the looks of a skinny downtube. Form should follow function.

For me a 600Wh battery would only be enough for short rides before work. I'm not going to invest in having both a 600Wh and 800Wh+ battery. I really don't even like the idea of my bike behaving so differently according to the battery I'm using at the time. For these reasons I personally am not interested in the smaller batteries. I respect others have different perspectives on this though.