Levo Gen 3 2023 Zeb Ultimate potential issues?

[Renton]

Hi all,

I’ve got a new 2023 Zeb ultimate on my ebike and think I’ve got few issues with it:

* Meant to be 170mm travel but only shows around 163mm of stanchion when correct sag
* Not reaching full travel even when running lots of sag
* Sits quite low in its travel
* Quite rough and keep getting sore hands when riding fast down rough trails

Its a good fork dont get me wrong but the Fox 38 that came on my Levo expert felt loads better than this.

Any suggestions on what to look at?

 

[Paulquattro]

Hi

Point 1 and 3 are the same thing (Its a rockshox thing not a fault)
How old is the fork , have you give it a chance to settle in mine didnt get good for a good while i also came from a 38 but i wouldnt go back now
But were all different too in what we want and feel from our bikes.

 

[yorkshire89]

Is it 163mm with the bikes weight or when you lift the front wheel up in the air? Ebikes extra weight can cause it to sink slightly into it's travel. If thats with no weight on the fork, you can usually solve this by pushing down on the lowers while pulling up on the bars. On the older Rockshox it was usually a blocked port between positive and negative air chambers that would fill with grease.

Harshness can be a number of things. If you aren't using full travel, how many tokens are installed?
Might be worth adding what settings (PSI, compression, rebound) you are running, and if this is what's recommended for your weight. I don't ride a Zeb but people seem to recommend running 10% less pressure than what's recommended, but this will depend on your riding style.

 

[Renton]

You need to read the below thread. Everything you wrote above shows you have no clue what you’re doing.

Suspension set-up guides and info​

Hmmm care to elaborate on why I don’t know what I’m doing ??

 

[Bomble]

Are you running 7mm of ‘correct sag’ on a 170mm fork and complaining about its ride?

I think he means he has set his sag in the normal way but without him being on the bike, it usea 7mm of travel.

 

[Paulquattro]

I think he means he has set his sag in the normal way but without him being on the bike, it usea 7mm of travel.

Thats how i took it to be fair .

 

[Renton]

Yeah. But then if it’s running quite low on it’s sag doesn’t correspond with rough on hands. Unless he has everything closed it makes no sense. Correct sag and quite low are not congruent and that’s assuming his compression and rebound are closed otherwise too much sag would be an even softer ride.

Regardless if he learned about setting up suspension he would learn all he needs and then come back with logical troubleshooting requests.

And yet I know enough to know that it feels completely different to the fox 38 I had previously.

For reference I’ve sat the air pressure to give the correct sag. Then with no one on the bike there is only 163mm of stanchion showing.

When sagged to 25% the fork is sitting well into its travel and then still doesn’t reach full travel no matter how hard the hit.

I’ve even set the sag to 50% and still not hit full travel.

The fork is also quite harsh and spikey. Down rougher trails you end up with sore hands and the occasional hand jolted from the bar.

I’ve tried with different high and low speed compression settings and whilst some settings are better it doesn’t alleviate the feeling.

Bambamoda you seem to be quite aggressive in your answers to me. Not sure why but I posted this to see if anyone else has experienced the same feelings or issues. This is a bike community after all.

 

[jjglass535]

I have the same fork and I find it works really well. I have both high and low in the middle setting. Rebound 3 clicks from full out and I think about 70 lbs of air to give me 20% sag. This is on the 160mm version of the fork.I might have 1-2 mm of sag from the bike weight if any. It rides high in the travel and eats up everything I throw at it. I did go 1 click softer on low speed comp. Maybe you should empty the air out , set the clickers to the neutral setting and start over. I also only weigh 140 lbs

 

[jjglass535]

Remove volume spacers. If it’s an off the shelf fork they often have 2.

Adjust air pressure to ride at the height you prefer. 25% should be fine ballpark. Set your clicks to the middle on everything and go from there.

You have 170mm of travel. That’s pretty comfy for a 6’ drop to flat so understand your bike can be used for extreme performance and from the shelf it’s more likely to be set up to protect people who rode more extreme.

My off the shelf 160 zeb came with 1 token installed and it's perfect. You're right though it depends on the type of riding you do. I ride fairly aggressive with some good size drops and jumps and use my travel but never bottom

 

[Renton]

I have the same fork and I find it works really well. I have both high and low in the middle setting. Rebound 3 clicks from full out and I think about 70 lbs of air to give me 20% sag. This is on the 160mm version of the fork.I might have 1-2 mm of sag from the bike weight if any. It rides high in the travel and eats up everything I throw at it. I did go 1 click softer on low speed comp. Maybe you should empty the air out , set the clickers to the neutral setting and start over. I also only weigh 140 lbs

This is what I was expecting. I was hoping it would sit high in its travel and eat everything.

I was at Cannock the other day and upper and lower cliff had me wondering if the fork was broke. Really bad chatter into the berms and just felt incredibly harsh.

It’s been fine for the first few rides and gotten progressively worse.

 

[Alexbn921]

For tuning you need to remove spacers and add psi. I would also move the adjusters back to factory settings as a baseline.

All new forks need service. Take apart the lowers and clean/lube the air spring. Then reassemble with correct fluid levels. It gives you a known baseline.

 

[Bomble]

I struggled with my Zebs, they were the 2022 ones though. They were either harsh but supportive or if I managed to get them feeling plush, they would dive like mad with no support at all, didn’t matter how many tokens either, didn’t make sense.
I ended up sending them off for a full service and a Luftkappe piston fitting, this cured everything and transformed them. The pro guy didn’t find anything broken in the fork so I assumed it was just wrongly greased/ oiled from the factory.

 

[2WheelsNot4]

@ BAMBAMODA

There's an empty house near me

 

[Mikerb]

It may be worth starting from scratch with the tuning. You could also try "burping" the fork which may tell you something about a potential problem....( burping is carefully inserting something like the end of a zip tie between the stanchion and seal on the airspring side, to see if that releases any air, and also allows the fork to rise above its current level of static/no rider SAG). If you do indeed get an escape of air you have to option of either doing a lower leg service or continuing as below to see if it rectifies itself.

Next Remove the airspring top cap and make a note of how many tokens you have fitted. Forks fitted as standard are often specifically tuned by the bike brand so whilst 2 tokens is normal for an off the shelf fork, yours may be different. I would leave 1 token fitted. you can always add another later if needed.

The procedure I have found effective for setting up a fork is to firstly leave all compression and rebound settings fully open, then set SAG. On a 170mm fork I would start by setting SAG at 30% using the "ready" position.

Now ride the bike on a short section of trail that gives the fork some work to do. Obviously the fork should at this stage feel pretty plush and fast and you should quite easilly be able to achieve full travel.

Assuming that is the case, now position rebound at its mid point whilst still leaving any compression settings fully open. Repeat your short trail ride. Adjust rebound 2 clicks slower.....ride again.....adjust rebound 2 clicks faster than the mid point..ride again. Keep going until the fork feels its best even if that is with rebound only a couple of clicks from fully open. Do not be surprised if rebound ends up close to open. A heavy factory tune can make rebound add significantly to what feels like compression!

Now repeat that process with low speed compression ( leave high speed compression open if you have that adjustment as well). I usually find LSC 1/3 from open works well and is best judged on the behaviour of the fork compressing into a berm.

If you are now happy with the forks performance all that remains is to test for bottom out. A lot depends here on the sort of terrain you usually ride so for example find a jump or drop that is typical of the sort you encounter on your usual rides. If you are now bottoming out on that sort of feature but you are happy with performance of the fork in its first third to half of its travel you are probably best leaving SAG as 30% and either adding a few clicks of HSC if that is an option, or adding another token.
If you fail to achieve the results outlined at each stage then your fork probably needs a lower leg service.

 

[DNE87]

Crap assembly from the factory, will be clogged with grease, and probably not enough oil in lowers, pretty common with RS stuff, and my 170 Zeb was like this from new. I always strip and service a brand new fork myself before riding it so I know its how it should be internally.

 

[DNE87]

It may be worth starting from scratch with the tuning. You could also try "burping" the fork which may tell you something about a potential problem....( burping is carefully inserting something like the end of a zip tie between the stanchion and seal on the airspring side, to see if that releases any air, and also allows the fork to rise above its current level of static/no rider SAG). If you do indeed get an escape of air you have to option of either doing a lower leg service or continuing as below to see if it rectifies itself.

Next Remove the airspring top cap and make a note of how many tokens you have fitted. Forks fitted as standard are often specifically tuned by the bike brand so whilst 2 tokens is normal for an off the shelf fork, yours may be different. I would leave 1 token fitted. you can always add another later if needed.

The procedure I have found effective for setting up a fork is to firstly leave all compression and rebound settings fully open, then set SAG. On a 170mm fork I would start by setting SAG at 30% using the "ready" position.

Now ride the bike on a short section of trail that gives the fork some work to do. Obviously the fork should at this stage feel pretty plush and fast and you should quite easilly be able to achieve full travel.

Assuming that is the case, now position rebound at its mid point whilst still leaving any compression settings fully open. Repeat your short trail ride. Adjust rebound 2 clicks slower.....ride again.....adjust rebound 2 clicks faster than the mid point..ride again. Keep going until the fork feels its best even if that is with rebound only a couple of clicks from fully open. Do not be surprised if rebound ends up close to open. A heavy factory tune can make rebound add significantly to what feels like compression!

Now repeat that process with low speed compression ( leave high speed compression open if you have that adjustment as well). I usually find LSC 1/3 from open works well and is best judged on the behaviour of the fork compressing into a berm.

If you are now happy with the forks performance all that remains is to test for bottom out. A lot depends here on the sort of terrain you usually ride so for example find a jump or drop that is typical of the sort you encounter on your usual rides. If you are now bottoming out on that sort of feature but you are happy with performance of the fork in its first third to half of its travel you are probably best leaving SAG as 30% and either adding a few clicks of HSC if that is an option, or adding another token.
If you fail to achieve the results outlined at each stage then your fork probably needs a lower leg service.

You don't need to 'burp' any fork with pressure release valves on the lowers.

 

[DNE87]

Don’t try to get people to think this! I’ve never needed this with a new fork. You service them after 50/100 hours of use if you’re getting serious use.

Well they should be thinking it, RS and Fox are notorious for poor factory assembly, pretty standard practice to strip down a new fork for a lot of people.

 

[ebikerider]

Well they should be thinking it, RS and Fox are notorious for poor factory assembly, pretty standard practice to strip down a new fork for a lot of people.

Totally agree.

Also having correct bushing clearance is a lottery and this can be a cause of harshness. The Zeb has a weird air spring....too little air and it sags deep and is harsh....more air = better mid stroke but harshness from the pressure. A secus sorts out the air spring and if the bushings are sized correctly you will have a decent fork.

 

[Olivier Clg]

For tuning you need to remove spacers and add psi. I would also move the adjusters back to factory settings as a baseline.

All new forks need service. Take apart the lowers and clean/lube the air spring. Then reassemble with correct fluid levels. It gives you a known baseline.

I totally agree with that. He has to disassemble and rebuild the fork starting with the air spring first : I think the transfer port must be clogged with excess grease and there is also too much in the negative chamber which would explain this loss of travel in static. I have always stripped and rebuilt my new air spring RS forks before the first use and have never had any issues. For the ZEB, I have been riding with it since it's release (3 x MY21) then now 2 x MY23 on my Levo Gen3 and my KSL: they are really perfect!

 

[ebikerider]

I totally agree with that. He has to disassemble and rebuild the fork starting with the air spring first : I think the transfer port must be clogged with excess grease and there is also too much in the negative chamber which would explain this loss of travel in static. I have always stripped and rebuilt my new air spring RS forks before the first use and have never had any issues. For the ZEB, I have been riding with it since it's release (3 x MY21) then now 2 x MY23 on my Levo Gen3 and my KSL: they are really perfect!

Transfer port cannot be clogged or blocked with grease. There is far too much pressure for a tiny blob of grease to hold it back so disregard that thought.

 

[Chrysaor]

Transfer port cannot be clogged or blocked with grease. There is far too much pressure for a tiny blob of grease to hold it back so disregard that thought.

This, I was on the way to say exactly the same, grease can definitely not clog a transfer port, the pressure is too high there but it's a legend I have heard many times already.
Nevertheless, too much grease can reduce the negative air volume chamber.

For the OP though, before opening the fork I would start by removing all the tokens and inflate to RS recommended pressure, open HSC and LCS and setup the rebound according to RS.
From there, adjust the pressure to get the support you were looking for while riding. And if you bottom out too much start to add a token at a time while keeping the pressure constant.
"Sit too low and harshness" often go together as you are riding around the point where the fork becomes really progressive --> not enough air pressure.
Don't worry about a couple of mm missing it really doesn't matter, the fork performance does.

 

[yorkshire89]

The transfer port or dimple could definately get blocked on earlier forks if there was too much grease, not sure if it's the same with current Rockshox.

Let the air out of the forks and pull lowers and uppers apart, this should solve the sucking down issue.

 

[2WheelsNot4]

Crap assembly from the factory, will be clogged with grease, and probably not enough oil in lowers, pretty common with RS stuff, and my 170 Zeb was like this from new.

This is what I'm hoping. Picked up a new lyrik select on Wiggles ebay clearance at 1/2 retail price with the report that the damper isnt functioning. Rebound knob adjustment makes it sound like its dry in there, at least thats what im hoping, but either way its a brand new fork so whatever is amiss it will likely be something along those lines.
Or I could upgrade it to a 2.1 damper and get effectively an ultimate fork for the same price as the select.

 

[Redlemon]

Hi all,

I’ve got a new 2023 Zeb ultimate on my ebike and think I’ve got few issues with it:

* Meant to be 170mm travel but only shows around 163mm of stanchion when correct sag
* Not reaching full travel even when running lots of sag
* Sits quite low in its travel
* Quite rough and keep getting sore hands when riding fast down rough trails

Its a good fork dont get me wrong but the Fox 38 that came on my Levo expert felt loads better than this.

Any suggestions on what to look at?

If the fork is not showing full travel, you could have a ''fork suck down'' issue after removing air from the fork improperly, my 2 ZEBs did this when I removed air too quickly. Issue was fixed by adding air until full travel showing and removing air slowly with a fork pump.

If you're not reaching full travel no matter what, I would try to remove all tokens inside and try again.

Also if your fork is rough, I would assume tuning is not optimal and it's easy to mess up the tuning and have the fork performing poorly.

 

[Mikerb]

Well they should be thinking it, RS and Fox are notorious for poor factory assembly, pretty standard practice to strip down a new fork for a lot of people.

I think it is more likely the amount of time from manufacture, that a fork lays in its box or fitted to a bike...in a box.... possibly for months in a variety of different temperature zones........without actually being used........that means a new fork could need fresh oil and/or grease even though it is brand new.

 

[ebikerider]

I think it is more likely the amount of time from manufacture, that a fork lays in its box or fitted to a bike...in a box.... possibly for months in a variety of different temperature zones........without actually being used........that means a new fork could need fresh oil and/or grease even though it is brand new.

Oil and/or grease does not degrade just sitting there or every tub of oil and/or grease in everyone's shed would be useless by now.

 

[WNH]

Hi all,

I’ve got a new 2023 Zeb ultimate on my ebike and think I’ve got few issues with it:

* Meant to be 170mm travel but only shows around 163mm of stanchion when correct sag
* Not reaching full travel even when running lots of sag
* Sits quite low in its travel
* Quite rough and keep getting sore hands when riding fast down rough trails

Its a good fork dont get me wrong but the Fox 38 that came on my Levo expert felt loads better than this.

Any suggestions on what to look at?

Maybe try a Shockwiz.

 

[philn]

I'm about to set up the same 2023 Zeb 170mm on a new Gen3 Turbo..

If I felt like I tried everything, I would take the bike to a suspension specialist. Local to me is Gravity suspension in Fullerton CA, and I have another bike shop master mechanic I can have look at it. Or get in touch with the retailer you bought the fork from. Maybe you're eligible for a warranty exchange?

 

[RustyIron]

Local to me is Gravity suspension in Fullerton CA,

WHAT?! Fullerton? I guess we're neighbors.

I just worked on my Pike yesterday. It's warmed up enough this morning that I'm going to head over to The Oaks to get it dirty. Maybe we'll cross paths one of these days. Look for a homely guy in shabby clothes who doesn't ride very well.

 

[Rick66]

I think that there are confusing answers because of mixed models, the 2023 models have a new airshaft and damper so try to keep this in mind.
I have a 2023 Zeb 180, and i also got the suck down about 7mm, i have try to inflate in different ways but nothing helps.
I also have problems with damper, that is not solved .