Do 12 speeds still make sense for full powered EMTB's?

[cream]

It's real. Canyon, Comencal, Mondraker are showing them tomorrow. CVT, though - not gears.

Most likely it will be an e-CVT, which will use gears and 2 electric motors.

This was presented last year at eurobike:
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/owurus-continuously-variable-motor-gearbox-unit-eurobike-2025.html

I've tested such a thing (e-cvt), I like the engineering behind (while I don't like traditional CVT) but I'm not sure I want that for my eMTB. (which isn't a gravity/DH oriented bike).

 

[RoJo]

It's real. Canyon, Comencal, Mondraker are showing them tomorrow. CVT, though - not gears.
CVT sounds like the last thing you'd ever want in a MTB, at first. But small gas scooters have been using them for decades with great longevity and surely for MTB use they'd discretize the shifting into however many "gears" you want - exactly the topic of this thread! The result would be a smooth, silent shift at full torque every time.

Perhaps "Pinion" and others have been looking at this challenge from the wrong perspective all along - focused on gears instead of the CVTs which have proven so successful in similar-sized powerplants.

View attachment 187333

This thread just became pointless

 

[RustyMTB]

This thread just became pointless

I mean I did say that last night to gales of laughter!

 

[cream]

This thread just became pointless

or gearless

 

[Petrex]

It's real. Canyon, Comencal, Mondraker are showing them tomorrow. CVT, though - not gears.
CVT sounds like the last thing you'd ever want in a MTB, at first. But small gas scooters have been using them for decades with great longevity and surely for MTB use they'd discretize the shifting into however many "gears" you want - exactly the topic of this thread! The result would be a smooth, silent shift at full torque every time.

Perhaps "Pinion" and others have been looking at this challenge from the wrong perspective all along - focused on gears instead of the CVTs which have proven so successful in similar-sized powerplants.

View attachment 187333

Similar image from E-Mountainbike Mag

Not quite the same.
Maybe different generation of renders ?
You're probably right though, yours is not just an AI image.

 

[zizajaun]

And that destroys Shimano chains but not KMC eGlide EPT.

Right.

As you know, I didn't say anything of the sort. I just said the eGlide chains last longer than the Shimano chains (e.g. LG500), in my experience. That shouldn't be surprising given that they are specifically designed for ebikes, cost more, weigh more, and have an anti-corrosion coating. It's no more baffling than the fact that SRAM XO chains last much longer than SRAM GX chains.

 

[zakflip]

Well this is going to kill the thread.

scrub to 3.12 set your own gearing, thank you Avinox.

 

[RustyMTB]

As you know, I didn't say anything of the sort..

The Shimano chains are also pretty crap, sometimes reaching 0.5% wear in just a couple of rides in bad conditions

We know what you said. Doubling down on it is illuminating if nothing else.

 

[billium]

New Avinox MG sounds promising but we won't know for a while....

Efficiency will likely be less - how much will matter.
Cost will likely be non issue when buying a bike in that the extra motor cost will be offset by simpler transmission.
Added weight sounds like a non issue when transmission is (mostly) removed but some people spend large amounts to save few hundred g so again how much weight will be added?
Reliability of any type of CVT is likely to be lower than traditional gears inside the motor -will we notice?
Will lower reliability be offset by not replacing Cassette and Derailleur - possibly.

 

[zizajaun]

We know what you said. Doubling down on it is illuminating if nothing else.

I claimed Shimano chains sometimes wear to 0.5% in a couple rides in bad conditions (where one ride is lapping a bike park for 8 hours with with a high-power motor and the drivetrain caked in mud) and that KMC eGlide chains last much longer. Obviously those conditions "destroy" KMC chains eventually as well, but not as quickly. There is nothing implausible or mysterious about that: some chains are just more durable than others.

 

[steve_sordy]

Caked in mud, lapping the bike park at 3000 W / 200 Nm.

Mud or no mud, a single strand of standard half inch pitch chain is not designed for that duty. It is not surprising that it wore out. You are lucky it didn't snap!

 

[Suns_PSD]

I claimed Shimano chains sometimes wear to 0.5% in a couple rides in bad conditions (where one ride is lapping a bike park for 8 hours with with a high-power motor and the drivetrain caked in mud) and that KMC eGlide chains last much longer. Obviously those conditions "destroy" KMC chains eventually as well, but not as quickly. There is nothing implausible or mysterious about that: some chains are just more durable than others.

I've never heard of a KMC eGlide chain, now you have me curious.

 

[skizzian]

I've never heard of a KMC eGlide chain, now you have me curious.

I've used the KMC E11 EPT E-Bike Chain on a few bikes - not the e-glide!
personally I didn't really notice much of an improvement over the Shimano on the giant e-bike
on MTB's and especially the missus road bike (neither electric) there was maybe an extra month of use (like 8 instead of 7)
I think the coating wears off pretty quick in UK rain and roads - then the wear on the rollers is pretty much the same

 

[irie]

As you know, I didn't say anything of the sort. I just said the eGlide chains last longer than the Shimano chains (e.g. LG500)

You said:

The Shimano chains are also pretty crap, sometimes reaching 0.5% wear in just a couple of rides in bad conditions, but the KMC eGlide EPT lasts ages

 

[RustyIron]

one ride is lapping a bike park for 8 hours with with a high-power motor and the drivetrain caked in mud

Strava or it didn't happen.