New Pole EMTB with Maxon Air in Production (Hiisi)

maxed out, EU prices (the Netherlands)

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slickrock said:
View attachment 174375
So it appears that Leo is finally taking covers off what he's been working on and more importantly perhaps a reveal of the resurrected Pole brand itself. In some ways, what we see here is not that surprising if one has been following the Pole FB group and YT vids and his clear obsession with the Maxon motor. He had clearly stated that he wanted to put the Maxon into his Sonni, and based this glimpse it appears that that is exactly what he did. I do like the look of the bike overall, and appreciate the more, ahem, androgynous/neutered profile of this bike compared to the Sonni. The sharp bend where the downtube meets the motor is characteristic of motors where the transmission is transverse to the the motor, like with Fazua. Still it could be a leaner and more svelte in that area compared to some other bikes I've seen with this motor. Then again, this may not be the final iteration of the bike, much like the Voima went through a number of changes before it went GA.

The unknown here, ASAIK, is the current state of the Maxon battery platform, which I hoped by now the Swiss company would reveal a better set of batteries and mounting platform. I particular, what size battery is inside this bike? My guess is that it's the smaller 400wh battery and not the 600WH battery. [edit: PB article casually states that the onboard battery is 600wh, so if this is really the case that's good news and signals the Maxon revised their battery dimensions ]. That the bike has the battery extender in the picture is probably telltale. Leo had said months ago that 600WH battery was chubbier (much like the how the Bosch 800wh battery is chubbier than the 600wh) and the the battery mount are different for each, so they may not be swappable anyway [edit: this bike actually has Crestline-like battery swap out capability]. I'm really hoping Maxon has already gone back to the drawing board in the battery department to get this remedied in the coming 2026 season, where perhaps Leo knows something we don't. If not this may be the biggest reservation about the bike.

The other dimension of this reveal of the fabrication tech used, namely that Leo seems to have stayed the course with the full CNC, glued 7075 aluminum approach, which to some may still be controversial. 7075 is not easily weldable or repairable, and as such requires company that is a going concern and can stand behind a warranty program. Pole has lost goodwill here as none of the warranties on all the current bikes out there survived the company's receivership. The original swingarm design of the Voima was known for cracking issues and were replaced with an improved design under warranty before the company when under. One could argue this is general issue with any company that goes belly-up, whether they use carbon fiber or not (YT comes to mind). Needless to say, I have not experience any material issues with the Poles I've owned.

Finally, though, I'm really glad that this bike is a Sonni successor rather than Voima, because I've owned both and can clearly say that the Sonni is the far better bike, scaling back on some of the extremities of its predecessor. And that the Sonni never got it's moment because only handful of them were produced before Pole went under (my bike literally arrived the day the bankruptcy was announced). Maybe someday I will do full review of the Sonni, but until such time, this new Pole will hopefully put a newer, lighter version of it in other people's hands.
Click to expand...
High Rock Ruti

On another note! My Voima with less than 700 miles has two cracked rear suspension members. Leo found(one of the two parts) a used part and wants $250. He hid behind the "old company no longer exists, so no warranty is owed".

My $10,000 bike is also bankrupt. More bad news, 7075 aluminum cannot be welded, anybody need spare parts.....for free?

Warm Regards Ruti
 
Doing the euro to USD conversion, it comes out to $12,872.28 USD for the Pole frameset! I paid approximately $7,500 for my brand new Crestline Plaid frameset! I get making a limited quantity to make it an exclusive item, but I think he’ll have a hard time selling 50 them. On the other hand, the Crestline Plaid sold all 300 Plaids, (150 raw and 150 chalk white) within 48 hours.
 
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tooFATtoRIDE said:
View attachment 183658


lol these prices...
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Been stewing on this for over a week now, planning to write up an extensive take, but only have time for TLDR at the moment:
  1. Pole's resurrected business has significantly been scaled back. At only 50 frames and aptly named, Pole is more at home at the Bespoked Bike Show than at Sea Otter. No matter how good this bike may be, it will only be in the hands of a select few, so it's influence will be limited this year or longer.
  2. At that price, especially the frame price, it will be relegated to only the most rabid Pole enthusiast or well-heeled EMTB fans. We will see how this kind of exclusivity plays out.
  3. We will have to wait to see for in-depth review of the bike that isn't sanctioned by Pole. There just won't be not enough bikes out there to move to justify it, at least this year.
  4. The Maxon choice makes more sense now, as it is distinct from the other players in the Avinox sea, and you don't need to rely on massive support network with this kind of limited rollout and hand-holding support.
  5. As I've said on other posts, the very best thing about this bike is that it's continuation/evolution of the Sonni (who's rollout got cut off with the bankruptcy), which I can attest is an excellent suspension design and bike. It is markedly superior to the Voima, which nearly everyone else who's owned, owns, or tested one may be improperly drawing conclusions as to how this new bike would compare to prior Poles or other boutique brands.
  6. Edit: Pole still has a huge hole to climb out of from it's bankruptcy, from the decision to stay with its fabrication approach to the warranty/support fallout from the company dissolution, and this is made harder by Leo keeping with the same brand/moniker. But this may not matter much if he continues this bespoke approach and market only double digit frames per year, which he could probably sustain and such a limited market can absorb.
 
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irie said:
€23,043 is not even funny, it's absolutely fucking hilarious!
rotfl.gif
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With everything maxed out in 200mm gravity build (Double camp fork and Intend shock), plus every possible accessory, I get 18,554 euro- difference probably due to ex-VAT. A base 180mm build (still top drawer SRAM suspension) with no accessories is 13,123 euro - more line with S-Works prices. Still, all of these prices is are off-the chain and only drills in that this that Pole is not really serving this greater market anymore, probably because it can't based on the company's weighted priors.
 
Bomble said:
I’m amazed anyone evens trusts Pole.
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If the builder progress bar is to be believed, there are only 6 bikes left to buy, admittedly though a low bar to hit with such a small run. With a market this small, there will always be buyers.
 
slickrock said:
View attachment 174375
So it appears that Leo is finally taking covers off what he's been working on and more importantly perhaps a reveal of the resurrected Pole brand itself. In some ways, what we see here is not that surprising if one has been following the Pole FB group and YT vids and his clear obsession with the Maxon motor. He had clearly stated that he wanted to put the Maxon into his Sonni, and based this glimpse it appears that that is exactly what he did. I do like the look of the bike overall, and appreciate the more, ahem, androgynous/neutered profile of this bike compared to the Sonni. The sharp bend where the downtube meets the motor is characteristic of motors where the transmission is transverse to the the motor, like with Fazua. Still it could be a leaner and more svelte in that area compared to some other bikes I've seen with this motor. Then again, this may not be the final iteration of the bike, much like the Voima went through a number of changes before it went GA.

The unknown here, ASAIK, is the current state of the Maxon battery platform, which I hoped by now the Swiss company would reveal a better set of batteries and mounting platform. I particular, what size battery is inside this bike? My guess is that it's the smaller 400wh battery and not the 600WH battery. [edit: PB article casually states that the onboard battery is 600wh, so if this is really the case that's good news and signals the Maxon revised their battery dimensions ]. That the bike has the battery extender in the picture is probably telltale. Leo had said months ago that 600WH battery was chubbier (much like the how the Bosch 800wh battery is chubbier than the 600wh) and the the battery mount are different for each, so they may not be swappable anyway [edit: this bike actually has Crestline-like battery swap out capability]. I'm really hoping Maxon has already gone back to the drawing board in the battery department to get this remedied in the coming 2026 season, where perhaps Leo knows something we don't. If not this may be the biggest reservation about the bike.

The other dimension of this reveal of the fabrication tech used, namely that Leo seems to have stayed the course with the full CNC, glued 7075 aluminum approach, which to some may still be controversial. 7075 is not easily weldable or repairable, and as such requires company that is a going concern and can stand behind a warranty program. Pole has lost goodwill here as none of the warranties on all the current bikes out there survived the company's receivership. The original swingarm design of the Voima was known for cracking issues and were replaced with an improved design under warranty before the company when under. One could argue this is general issue with any company that goes belly-up, whether they use carbon fiber or not (YT comes to mind). Needless to say, I have not experience any material issues with the Poles I've owned.

Finally, though, I'm really glad that this bike is a Sonni successor rather than Voima, because I've owned both and can clearly say that the Sonni is the far better bike, scaling back on some of the extremities of its predecessor. And that the Sonni never got it's moment because only handful of them were produced before Pole went under (my bike literally arrived the day the bankruptcy was announced). Maybe someday I will do full review of the Sonni, but until such time, this new Pole will hopefully put a newer, lighter version of it in other people's hands.
Click to expand...
So he bought the brand back, kept the name and IP and isn’t honouring warranties? Feels like there should be better protection for consumers. That seems like a scam. The IP (including trademarks) should die in bankruptcy. Call the new brand Pale or Pile.
 
doochenozzle said:
So he bought the brand back, kept the name and IP and isn’t honouring warranties? Feels like there should be better protection for consumers. That seems like a scam. The IP (including trademarks) should die in bankruptcy. Call the new brand Pale or Pile.
Click to expand...
Yeah, there are a lot of things Leo could have done by distancing him from his own brand and push some kind "reinvention" strategy. By keeping the same brand/IP keeps the feeling of those being burned in the foreground. YT looked like toast, but there is enough founder money wealth to resurrect the brand and "supposedly" honor warranties, which is huge. Leo probably only has himself to invest in the brand, having blown investor goodwill, hence the solute of an extremely scaled back business model and cutting of prior warranty commitments. Going (and staying) bespoke may be his only way out of this in the long run.
 
slickrock said:
With everything maxed out in 200mm gravity build (Double camp fork and Intend shock), plus every possible accessory, I get 18,554 euro- difference probably due to ex-VAT. A base 180mm build (still top drawer SRAM suspension) with no accessories is 13,123 euro - more line with S-Works prices. Still, all of these prices is are off-the chain and only drills in that this that Pole is not really serving this greater market anymore, probably because it can't based on the company's weighted priors.
Click to expand...

As someone who formerly belonged to the 'more money than brains club' (2 separate times sadly!) to some people a few thousand difference just doesn't matter, it's just a rounding error.
But I just find this a bike dumb in so many ways and the fact that he has the ability to machine rear stays for people that own Pole products and can't even be bothered to do it, is pretty disgusting. Even if he just charged them at cost. Ultimately this machining frames is just a terrible bicycle manufacturing technique.
Leo should have utilized his machining skills to make CF molds and laid up the carbon fiber himself just like lots of other small builders do. Then he should have found some badass battery expert to make him a custom highest density battery that could possibly exist surpassing the mass market batteries from the other players. That combined with the Maxon motor, he would really have something. He could sell that for a premium and that would truly be special.
But the fact that he won't even assist people in getting updated replacement chainstays for Pole bikes means that buying anything custom or special from this guy is just gambling with your money. I'd say there's a greater than 50% chance you'll have no support for this product inside of 60 months.
I live in a place that definitely doesn't have world class terrain, yet both Poles I knew of folded bigly.
 
Suns_PSD said:
As someone who formerly belonged to the 'more money than brains club' (2 separate times sadly!) to some people a few thousand difference just doesn't matter, it's just a rounding error.
But I just find this a bike dumb in so many ways and the fact that he has the ability to machine rear stays for people that own Pole products and can't even be bothered to do it, is pretty disgusting. Even if he just charged them at cost. Ultimately this machining frames is just a terrible bicycle manufacturing technique.
Leo should have utilized his machining skills to make CF molds and laid up the carbon fiber himself just like lots of other small builders do. Then he should have found some badass battery expert to make him a custom highest density battery that could possibly exist surpassing the mass market batteries from the other players. That combined with the Maxon motor, he would really have something. He could sell that for a premium and that would truly be special.
But the fact that he won't even assist people in getting updated replacement chainstays for Pole bikes means that buying anything custom or special from this guy is just gambling with your money. I'd say there's a greater than 50% chance you'll have no support for this product inside of 60 months.
I live in a place that definitely doesn't have world class terrain, yet both Poles I knew of folded bigly.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it did happen twice.

What's interesting is that other makers are moving to bonded frame designs: Acto-5, Paladin, even Unno, are going with clamshell bonded aluminum frames. I think what made the Voima problematic was using the same clamshell technique on the stays, where most of the failures occurred, whereas the other brands list above have simpler subtractive construction, not unlike the replacement Voima stays Pole is offering now (albeit out of stock and at some cost). Even though the Sonni uses clamshell chainstays, load bearing and torsion stiffness are helped by generous seat stays and larger shock yoke which the new bike shares. The Voima was all "seat stay" with no cross member and nearly absent chainstays, which also invited stress issues.

Whether or not Leo will be around in 5 years is function of his new lean bespoke model and not getting over his skis like he did in the past when venture funding was at hand.
 
Suns_PSD said:
Click to expand...
Quick take:
  1. Alex got spanked by Leo on a Garda BD trail, both riding bikes they never rode before. In an implicit way, it validated Leo and is brand in ways not expected.
  2. Alex's inarticulateness didn't do the bike's introduction any favors, not to mention evaluating a bike that's not correct size.
  3. The Cduro is a compelling comparison in it's own right, though probably off the table around here because they stuck with the 400Wh battery.
  4. If the Hiisi is the lightweight successor to the Sonni, then I wouldn't hold back and instead go with the full 200mm rear setup. Plushness combined with bottomless progression on the Downduro Sonni is intoxicating.
 
To be fair, Alex's bike didn't have a fully functioning rear brake. He could have edited that out, but he didn't.

They claimed it weighed 21 kgs, which for the build and frame is impressive.

I'd sure like to see that motor system in a proper CF frame with the lightest 550-650 wh battery they could integrate into the frame.
 
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