In the context of normal charge times for emtbs up to this point it's considered fast. There are also still plenty of bikes out there with removable batteries so it's not like you don't have a choice. Buy a Levo Evo if you want a long travel bike with a easily removable battery.
Whyte Karve Evo
- Thread starter lh270519
- Start date
I am a little disappointed that the Karve only has 800wh what's that still provides around three hours of climbs, however, I can normally get around four hours to fall and a half hours on a park or in the Lakes. I weigh 100 kilos when loaded and after 4 hours arriving I definitely need to break which is usually around about an hour which should provide sufficient power back into the battery on fast charging to allow me another blast in the afternoon. Replacement batteries are expensive and very heavy, so to me
There are number of options available with removable batteries however they all are considerably more expensive than the Karve RSX, so you pay your money you take your choice. For me Aesthetics are not that important, I had a PRST 4 ffs
. Removable batteries means you have to carry it around and they are heavy, alternatives being range extenders and mobile power units are also expensive. Every one wants different things from their bikes and from their rides, so no one solution fits all. For me and the type of riding that I do a fixed battery and fast charging is sufficient, couple to this the really aggressive pricing and my previous experiences with Whyte means I'm extremely happy with the bike I have ordered and truly excited for new by day.Nope, motor is cat 4 which brings the whole bike down to match
Wait, what? So no Avinox bike can receive cat 5 rating in that case?
Can anyone see it confirmed anywhere that Avinox is Cat 4?
Peter1979
Member
Atheron S170 is cat 5 and has avinox - however it states this on their page -
The Avinox motor comes with a 2 year warranty- and carries a Category 4 rating. Making the complete S.170E approved for Category 4 useage.
The Avinox motor comes with a 2 year warranty- and carries a Category 4 rating. Making the complete S.170E approved for Category 4 useage.
It's on the Atherton's S170E video, they say that the whole bike is cat 5 apart from the motor which is Cat 4
5:15
5 minutes, 15 seconds
Strength and durability were non-negotiable. The frame is EFB category 5 rated, which is the highest
5:22
5 minutes, 22 seconds
rating there is. The drive system is category 4, so the whole bike is category 4 approved.
Thanks. Need to do some digging on this.
Also, it seems there are multiple Category ratings - I can see ASTM (American Standard), but when it comes to european standard, does anyone know what it is?
Also, it seems there are multiple Category ratings - I can see ASTM (American Standard), but when it comes to european standard, does anyone know what it is?
From what I can see, europe doesnt seem to have one single universal official Cat 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 standard that everybody uses - seems some brands use their own interpretation of it?
In fact the more I read the brands category ratings, the more I see that its just the brands making up their own intepretations of it. Here's Cube's, Propains and Canyons:
CUBE (they actually go upto Cat 6!!)
CANYON:
PROPAIN:
CUBE (they actually go upto Cat 6!!)
CANYON:
PROPAIN:
Last edited:
I think it's BS EN 17406:2020 or ASTM F2043-13
That's really concerning, im sure bike manufacturers will honest any broken frames, and maybe Aminox might have some kind of receptacle agreement with the bike manufacturers should a motor fail, but what is really concerning is for people who have personal injury insurance because as We Know insurance companies will do anything to get out of a claim and if you're injured on a high speed bike park are they likely to refuse your claim and classify the bike is a cat 4 and therwfore say that cat of bike shouldn't be on that particular bike park
I can understand a bike frame ( design/material/geo) , suspension, wheels and brakes determining the suitability of a complete bike for various terrains and uses, but what the heck has a peddle assist motor got to do with it? About the only component within the motor that could be a factor is the main crank diameter and material.
Trek-Rail-eBike
Active member
I'm the same view as you.
I ride Bosch with 2 batteries and charge the 1st one (portable power pack) whilst riding the 2nd.
This bike looks awesome but I need a removeable battery on my next upgrade.
I use 3-5 in a day. Basically any self-shuttle enduro/DH/freeride trails with a road or fire road climb. The climb is boring and you don't want to be tired for the descents, and sometimes you've paid for access (e.g. Bike Park Wales), so you use full power to get to the top, and repeat until the battery dies. At these venues, an 800 Wh battery lasts me about 1.5-2 hours, and I might be riding for 6-8 hours, so that's 3-5 batteries.
How much elevation do you cover in a 3-5 battery day?
Just got some information- Avinox have no official rating / ASTM for their motor. Its not cat 4 / 5 or anything, not officially, anyway.
I checked a while ago and I think I was getting about 600m per hour, so that would be about 3600-4800m in 6-8 hours. Alternatively, I think I was using about 400 Wh to get that 600m of vert, so that's 1200m per charge, so that's...also 3600-4800m with 3-5 batteries.
To be clear, I also do longer rides in low-power modes; I once covered 55 miles in 5.5 hours on a single charge of a 720 Wh battery. But I generally prefer enduro-style riding where the climbs are just a means to an end, and I don't want to spend half my day waiting for the bike to charge.
I'd die of boredom if I had to sit around waiting for the uplift. You get more runs in with self-shuttling, and it's easier to session shorter sections rather than having to do full top-to-bottom runs. But yes, it does get boring on the climbs, even with a 150nm/1500w motor.I think I’d die of boredom before I flattened two batteries riding up bpw
Thanks for info. How many climbs do you get at BPW from a battery?
I remember saying you’d probably get more laps in on an ebike than on the bus (sure you can find the thread on it from ~2018) when I got my OG Kenevo. Then we tested it and concluded that the bus was a lot faster. Much higher risk of contracting trench-crack though
Trek-Rail-eBike
Active member
I tow my son up at the smaller bike parks / DH tracks, e.g Forest of Dean, Flyup 417, Cannock Chase.
He prefers to ride his DH bike at these (Marin Quake), but he also an eMTB (Trek Rail) for 'easier' rides outs
We did Forest of Dean on Monday and going back on Thursday again.
I tow him up the short fire road climb for the DH tracks - two batteries is enough for 5+ hours.
For uplift parks - e.g. BPW, We still both use uplifts currently, going to Revolution this Saturday and DYFI the following Sat
When he's old enough I will pay for a uplift for him and I will EMTB ride up to the top.
We had FoD to ourselves on Monday evening - The bottom of GBU
Last edited:
Is GBU fully open now , off there tomorrow 2I tow my son up at the smaller bike parks / DH tracks, e.g Forest of Dean, Flyup 417, Cannock Chase.
He prefers to ride his DH bike at these (Marin Quake), but he also an eMTB (Trek Rail) for 'easier' rides outs
We did Forest of Dean on Monday and going back on Thursday again.
I tow him up the short fire road climb for the DH tracks - two batteries is enough for 5+ hours.
For uplift parks - e.g. BPW, We still both use uplifts currently, going to Revolution this Saturday and DYFI the following Sat
When he's old enough I will pay for a uplift for him and I will EMTB ride up to the top.
We had FoD to ourselves on Monday evening - The bottom of GBU
I've never counted, and I mostly don't do full top-to-bottom runs. But if you know the vertical distance from top to bottom then you can make a rough estimate from the info I gave. ChatGPT reckons it's 240m vertical, so if I'm getting 1200m from an 800wh battery, that's 1200/240=5 runs. I think the BPW site says you can get about 10 runs in a full day of uplift, so the same as 2 batteries.
Funny, cos the main problem with self-shuttling is getting a sore arse from pedalling up rough fire roads. For that reason, I would actually consider paying for an uplift at BPW, where the climb is really long, rough, and indirect. I think I timed it at 15 minutes, and that was caning it at 1000-1500 W the whole way. But for smaller venues (Rogate, FoD, Dowie, Stile Cop, etc) I think self-shuttling would make sense even if you could get a free uplift. That's assuming you've got an Avinox-level motor, or weigh much less than I do. It's quite possible that a Kenevo would be much worse than an uplift at most venues.
Trek-Rail-eBike
Active member
Yep - GBU is fully openIs GBU fully open now , off there tomorrow 2
Yep, any venue in Wales e.g. Masts is 300m per climb. Turbo + quick battery swaps will roast any UK uplift if you're feeling up for it 
This is why I can't get onboard with a bike advertised as a "self shuttle rig" if it doesn't have quick swap battery.
Caersws is the only UK place where I value the uplift because they are super friendly there and the uplift track is steep AF.
DyFi on the other hand, I sit in that horrible landie bashing my head on the roof knowing that my bike is both faster and more comfortable uphill! I'm optimistic that now there is an Atherton eBike maybe they'll make a push up track
I've tried to persuade them in the past but previously they were way too cool to embrace eBikes. How the times are changing...
This is why I can't get onboard with a bike advertised as a "self shuttle rig" if it doesn't have quick swap battery.
Caersws is the only UK place where I value the uplift because they are super friendly there and the uplift track is steep AF.
DyFi on the other hand, I sit in that horrible landie bashing my head on the roof knowing that my bike is both faster and more comfortable uphill! I'm optimistic that now there is an Atherton eBike maybe they'll make a push up track
I've tried to persuade them in the past but previously they were way too cool to embrace eBikes. How the times are changing...dadeadduck
New Member
I got 5 full runs to the top at BPW and you can beat the uplift.
