Are MGU EMTBs still beta products?

[BikeBert]

Are MGU eBikes still overhyped and undercooked? When will they actually be ready?

Hey all,

With all the marketing noise around MGUs, I’m honestly starting to wonder if we’re being sold a dream that just isn’t there yet.

For all the promises: zero maintenance, huge durability, clean integration, the reality still looks shaky: early failures, loud drivetrains, sealed systems with questionable service intervals, limited spare parts, and software that still feels like public beta.

And let’s be real: some brands don’t help themselves. Take the Nicolai S16 for example: amazing engineering, but then they put that huge, ugly “Fit Remote Display” on the handlebar.

Meanwhile, bikes like the Moustache Clutch or Alutech ePelmo get a sleek integrated Master Node Display in the top tube.

One looks next-gen, the other looks like a DIY add-on from 2012. And yet both seem plagued by software issues.

Then there’s the belt tensioning system tucked under the motor, hanging low and exposed, right in the firing line of rocks, logs, and anything else the trail throws up. For a system advertised as “ultimate durability,” that design choice looks... questionable at best. One good rock strike and you’re done.

If MGUs are supposed to be the future, shouldn’t the whole system feel like it? Right now it feels like we’re paying premium money to be early testers.

On top of that, it’s getting harder and harder to find non-sponsored, brutally honest reviews. Most YouTube “tests” feel like PR pieces, not real-world assessments. So I’m hoping this thread can fill that gap with actual owner experiences and unbiased impressions from people who’ve ridden these bikes properly, not just parking-lot demos.


So I’m throwing this out to the community:

1. MGU owners, tell us the truth:

- Are these things actually holding up, or are we pretending they’re fine because we spent a fortune?

- Noise, drag, firmware stability, support - what’s the real story?

- Would you honestly buy an MGU bike again today?


2. Those still on the fence:

- What must be solved before you’d trust an MGU system?
(Spare parts? Serviceability? Modern displays? A proven multi-season lifespan? Something else?)


Don't get me wrong. I'm hoping to get the MGU bike myself, but the tech still feels far from mature.

Curious if others see it the same or if I’m off the mark. Let’s hear it.


Here are some most popular EMTBs with MGU system out right now.

Nicolai S16 MGU

Alutech ePelmo 1.0 Pinion MGU

Moustache Clutch

Rotwild R.X1000

Haibike AllMtn CF 11 TRN/IQ

Simplon Rapcon PMAX Pinion

Bulls Vuca Evo AM2

 

[monkeynuts]

I have robs old Nicolai s16. I have had a couple of issues with the bike. First was the 800wh battery failed twice. Apparently this was down to a faulty batch from the manufacturer!
secondly, the motor started making a whistling/ squeakping noise, no power lost or anything else. The MGU was exchanged. Down the grapevine, this noise is something to do with a seal not getting any lubrication, the motor casing has been altered to rectify this.
With the new motor, battery and new software update, the MGU has been trouble free. It also seems to be a lot quieter than before, and the gear changes in manual mode are nice and smooth. You still get the extra delay between 4-5 and 8-9, but that definitely isn’t a problem.
I had some issues with the Simplon Rapcon MGU, one of the first bikes with the early MGU. The MGU was changed due to a failure, and runs nice and smooth since it was changed, along with the software update.
The handle bar display did give some problems, but the second time it was changed, Nic up at Love e-bikes changed it for the Compact display. I then made my own holder for this display, and have it mounted inboard, next to the stem.
Since having the new display on the simplon, I have changed the
Nicolai to the same display.

The belt on the Simplon also snapped twice. I traced this down to the rear snubber that sits just below the rear sprocket, it had worn, and was allowing the belt to lift on the rear sprocket, when under full load, first gear (160nm motor force) and a heavy idiot pushing hard it would snap the belt back down into the sprocket and snap.
I made my own snubber, using stainless steel bearings. Not one problem with the belt since.

Same modification made the the Nicolai snubber when I noticed wear on the snubber.

I definitely don’t nanny the bikes, they go out in all conditions, covered in thick gloopy mud, they have been through deep water, with the motor submerged, the Nicolai went bog snorkelling in Scotland, both bikes take things in their stride !

The MGU definitely had some initial problems, and I do think that some of us were the Beta testers !. It Isn't perfect, but I much prefer it to having a mech on the rear, all the extra chain care, maintenance and replacements. I’m saying that with my fingers crossed !

 

[Frompi]

I have a Haibike CF10.
No problems so far, anycase , do you know any motor brand 100% free of problems?
Yes, the belt tensioner is not in the best place , but it has less risks than traditional derailleurs have
And also yes. It’s a bit noisier than other engines in low gears
The power and torque are more than enough for me
My big frustration is the software and display. I think that FIT has a lot of work to do to improve it. If it had the same capabilities than Avinox has , then it would be the perfect system FIT is a Swiss brand , so they are not so flexible as Chinese , I wouldn’t mind if DJI brought FIT.
Anyway , All downsides are forgotten when I park it after a ride day until next one. Nothing to do related to transmission maintenance : No clean, no lubricate, no changing chain,, no misalignment derailleur, no worries when cleaning with Karcher machine
In my case it was a blind purchase. I didn’t test it before buy it at online shop
No regrets at all and I definitely would buy it again and recommend to anyone interested in
Regards

 

[NervousFan]

I have a Haibike CF10.
No problems so far, anycase , do you know any motor brand 100% free of problems?
Yes, the belt tensioner is not in the best place , but it has less risks than traditional derailleurs have
And also yes. It’s a bit noisier than other engines in low gears
The power and torque are more than enough for me
My big frustration is the software and display. I think that FIT has a lot of work to do to improve it. If it had the same capabilities than Avinox has , then it would be the perfect system FIT is a Swiss brand , so they are not so flexible as Chinese , I wouldn’t mind if DJI brought FIT.
Anyway , All downsides are forgotten when I park it after a ride day until next one. Nothing to do related to transmission maintenance : No clean, no lubricate, no changing chain,, no misalignment derailleur, no worries when cleaning with Karcher machine
In my case it was a blind purchase. I didn’t test it before buy it at online shop
No regrets at all and I definitely would buy it again and recommend to anyone interested in
Regards

From what I've read, it appears that FIT has acquired Pinion.

 

[Flog]

@BikeBert - you sound as though you are gagging to purchase but just cant come out and say it.....

Have you ridden one yet, what were your thoughts?

I also have the Haibike CF10. I also blind purchase. I also think the display is pretty shoddy in today's super tech world. I also think the headline motor details seem low against the big avinox or bosch racing that are 100nm plus...... BUT, God I love it!!
I am sure that if you are riding bike park Wales every day or living within spitting distance of the Surrey Hills, and perjhaps have a higher technical ability than Mister Average (#me) this bike system is not up to your ability. But, I try and get out twice a week through the woods and up a few hills and single tracks it is more than enough bike for me.
The motor is more than enough for me and I havent not got up something because of the bike. It has great over run in Fly (turbo) mode and most of the time Flow (Tour) is pretty adequate for everything. The 800w battery seems good and in line with my previous bike.
Everybody mentions the whine in 1 to 4 but oh yes, no one mentions that in 9 to 12 it's silent. the clank between 4-5 and 8-9 is abrupt the first few times but I have plenty else to think about on my rides now.
I've had no motor, belt problems - it did squark a bit after a few muddy rides, but my "free" 12 week service from Sussex Ebikes, it was back to smooth. Any spares are easily sourced through Rich at Sussex bikes and yes, may have to wait for a courier but it's all do-able.
There is more drag on tarmac, although having shredda's on at the moment everything is a drag! The auto mode is good on tarmac / fire mode but you wouldn't use going up a trail - it's built on cadence so is re-active, its not AI or pro active, not sure anyone has done that with the motor car yet?
The gear change is awesome. To change direction up or down and to bale to hit the right gear within less than a second is a game changer.
It's horses for courses I suppose, but I am very happy with my choice and can not think, even for a second about going back to cassettes and hangers.

 

[Frompi]

@BikeBert - you sound as though you are gagging to purchase but just cant come out and say it.....

Have you ridden one yet, what were your thoughts?

I also have the Haibike CF10. I also blind purchase. I also think the display is pretty shoddy in today's super tech world. I also think the headline motor details seem low against the big avinox or bosch racing that are 100nm plus...... BUT, God I love it!!
I am sure that if you are riding bike park Wales every day or living within spitting distance of the Surrey Hills, and perjhaps have a higher technical ability than Mister Average (#me) this bike system is not up to your ability. But, I try and get out twice a week through the woods and up a few hills and single tracks it is more than enough bike for me.
The motor is more than enough for me and I havent not got up something because of the bike. It has great over run in Fly (turbo) mode and most of the time Flow (Tour) is pretty adequate for everything. The 800w battery seems good and in line with my previous bike.
Everybody mentions the whine in 1 to 4 but oh yes, no one mentions that in 9 to 12 it's silent. the clank between 4-5 and 8-9 is abrupt the first few times but I have plenty else to think about on my rides now.
I've had no motor, belt problems - it did squark a bit after a few muddy rides, but my "free" 12 week service from Sussex Ebikes, it was back to smooth. Any spares are easily sourced through Rich at Sussex bikes and yes, may have to wait for a courier but it's all do-able.
There is more drag on tarmac, although having shredda's on at the moment everything is a drag! The auto mode is good on tarmac / fire mode but you wouldn't use going up a trail - it's built on cadence so is re-active, its not AI or pro active, not sure anyone has done that with the motor car yet?
The gear change is awesome. To change direction up or down and to bale to hit the right gear within less than a second is a game changer.
It's horses for courses I suppose, but I am very happy with my choice and can not think, even for a second about going back to cassettes and hangers.

100% agree except in the part that the bike is not up to high skilled riders
This guy can show you what this bike can do


Regards

 

[sethimus]

From what I've read, it appears that FIT has acquired Pinion.

lol. Pinion is owned by Bombardier. Bombardier acquired parts of FIT:

ZEG verkauft Biketec an Bombardier

Die ZEG verkauft den Schweizer E-Bike-Systemanbieter FIT an Bombardier Recreactional Products, den Mutterkonzern von Pinion.

www.velojournal.ch

 

[Flog]

@Frompi - I was being kind - you found my video's then!!!!!

 

[Flog]

 

[Frompi]

@Frompi - I was being kind - you found my video's then!!!!!

This bike is very capable but it does not have a big marketing campaign support it as avinox has
Some users of Avinox are now realizing that so much torque is destroying the rear hub
Current hubs were not made for such torque
Besides they have to change chains in less than 800km
But they are happy because they can climb a steepy trail at 25kmh Well I’m not in such hurry

 

[TonTonUB]

What the Pinion MGU needs to rule them all :
- 8 speed
- smaller form factor and / or weight diminution
- 750 / 800Wh peak power (available on the speedbike motor version of the MGU)
- 100 nm torque
- 'fit' battery ('ala avinox')
- integrated screen (on top tube)
- wireless commands
- and of course, a refinement at rear wheel (Hall effect sensor and disc, instead of 1-3 magnets)

Pinion MGU gen2, where and when ?

 

[slickrock]

Are MGU eBikes still overhyped and undercooked? When will they actually be ready?

Hey all,

With all the marketing noise around MGUs, I’m honestly starting to wonder if we’re being sold a dream that just isn’t there yet.

For all the promises: zero maintenance, huge durability, clean integration, the reality still looks shaky: early failures, loud drivetrains, sealed systems with questionable service intervals, limited spare parts, and software that still feels like public beta.

And let’s be real: some brands don’t help themselves. Take the Nicolai S16 for example: amazing engineering, but then they put that huge, ugly “Fit Remote Display” on the handlebar.

...

And yet both seem plagued by software issues.

Then there’s the belt tensioning system tucked under the motor, hanging low and exposed, right in the firing line of rocks, logs, and anything else the trail throws up. For a system advertised as “ultimate durability,” that design choice looks... questionable at best. One good rock strike and you’re done.

If MGUs are supposed to be the future, shouldn’t the whole system feel like it? Right now it feels like we’re paying premium money to be early testers.
...
So I’m throwing this out to the community:

1. MGU owners, tell us the truth:

- Are these things actually holding up, or are we pretending they’re fine because we spent a fortune?

- Noise, drag, firmware stability, support - what’s the real story?

- Would you honestly buy an MGU bike again today?


2. Those still on the fence:

- What must be solved before you’d trust an MGU system?
(Spare parts? Serviceability? Modern displays? A proven multi-season lifespan? Something else?)


Don't get me wrong. I'm hoping to get the MGU bike myself, but the tech still feels far from mature.

Curious if others see it the same or if I’m off the mark. Let’s hear it.


Here are some most popular EMTBs with MGU system out right now.

What the Pinion MGU needs to rule them all :
- 8 speed
- smaller form factor and / or weight diminution
- 750 / 800Wh peak power (available on the speedbike motor version of the MGU)
- 100 nm torque
- 'fit' battery ('ala avinox')
- integrated screen (on top tube)
- wireless commands
- and of course, a refinement at rear wheel (Hall effect sensor and disc, instead of 1-3 magnets)

Pinion MGU gen2, where and when ?

Somehow missed this thread. Here is some input:

1. I would disagree that this is beta product. Whereas it's clear it's a V1.0 early-adopter product. What MGU's are up against is that there is a significant upfront commitment to this technology as it's not just an bike motor, but a an internal gearing system, and moreover a power control and power storage platform, and it's really hard to get everything working at the get to. We can take for granted just how hard it is to introduce and prevail with ebike motor platform: Bosch, Brose, Shimano took many years to get their platforms where they are now and others like Fazua, Panasonic, Mahle, are having trouble breaking out of their nIche's. OTOH, DJI seems to make this look easy, but they are clearly the exception to the rule.
2. Pinion is coming from the mechanical gearbox side, rather than from the motor side, so they are taking a lot of of additional platform on. IMO, it would be far easier for players established on the ebike power delivery side to take on a gearbox than the other way around like with Pinion. The bigger ask, is what the big guys are going to do about this. Shimano and SRAM both have patents applied for a MGU, but whether it see's the light of day at this point it's hard to tell, and they also have a derailleur legacy to protect. DJI is in a very good place to jump in: they are aggressive and move quickly, have the engineering talent, and don't have any transmission legacy to protect.
3. The requisite belt and chain spring tensioners are a sore spot for MGU's and gearboxes, currently. They can be heavy, ungainly, exposed, inefficient, noisy, and susceptible to mud and there's not enough companies out there to add competition to the space. So there needs to some new tech applied to this specific component as well for MGU as a category to take off. Note: another alternative is to design bikes than don't need a tensioner at all, and AFAIC, this is the way to go with MGU bikes - basically takes this entire issue off the table, not to mention killing off any pedal kickback.
4. The market is expecting at least a V1.1 product by now and most would even prefer a V2.0 product for MGU's to break into the mainstream. It's a good sign that early adopters have chimed in on this thread a reported mostly favorable experiences. But for MGU's to catch on, we want them to be lighter, smaller, quieter, more efficient, reliable, intuitive, and natural feeling at the pedal and be able to change gears under load (The Pinion is already quite powerful, but I guess more power would be welcome. ) But it's going to be hard to get all this to happen without tradeoffs, because spur-gear, carriaged-based gearboxes like the Pinion are already quite complex and heavy.
5. One way to get around this is wait for what I would call a MTU (Motor Transmission Unit), that dumps the gearbox in favor of an E-CVT Hybrid transmission or a pedal-by-wire transmissionless system. But it will take some time for this to make its way into the EMTB space - unless of course if DJI is working on this already.

 

[wb3jma]

I'm going to offer this video up which was just posted today by a bikepacking cyclist on why he is giving up on pinion and belt driven systems.

 

[TQFreak]

I'm going to offer this video up which was just posted today by a bikepacking cyclist on why he is giving up on pinion and belt driven systems.

I do not know about electric Pinion gearbox, but the acoustic Pinion gearbox is not durable according to the reports I found.

 

[slickrock]

I'm going to offer this video up which was just posted today by a bikepacking cyclist on why he is giving up on pinion and belt driven systems.

I would say this is more chain vs. belt comparison rather than a gearbox vs. derailleur comparison. Keep in mind the all the MGU bikes specified above could easily run a chain instead of a belt, though some thought would have to be put into switching out the tensioners. And I would agree, based on the rider's clear remote touring use case, that a chain would be better. That said there could be another possibility as to why his belt snapped twice - belt tension. I noticed his chain tension was really slack (sagging in fact). Belts need to be much more taught than chains, so even a small amount of play could cause a sudden tooth slip, with creates an impulse that break a belt that may have been already kinked. Having the belt super taught also improves mud shedding of the variety he demonstrated.

One last call out is that this guy's touring bike is a hardtail, so does not need a spring chain or belt tensioner. Adding a tensioner to the equation like with all of the MGU bikes so far, will likely complicate things further, although YMMV.

Edit: one clear advantage of belts for my use case, which is full-suspension long travel enduro riding, is reducing chain-whipping effects, caused by heavy slack, long chains flailing about. No STFU needed for belt drive.

 

[Atos62]

I had a very tough time deciding NOT to buy it immediatly after testing the Moustache...mainly because my old (2019) Powerplay still works perfectly after all the punishment it took during the years since I bought it.

 

[doochenozzle]

We should revisit this in 12 months.

 

[RustyMTB]

Two of my gang ride Zerode Pinion bikes. My observations from smoking about over pretty loose terrain with them is they are not the finished article. Belts snap, are definitely susceptible to mud & stones and the tensioner system is arguably replacing one vulnerable component with another. Peddling is ok but not as efficient as a traditional mech set up which is an element that a motor disguises rather than cures. Gear changes are clunky in a couple of spots in the range although I gather that's addressed in recent iterations.

On the upside, the maintenance is a doddle & wear is way less of a problem. IMO, one way forward with the belt system would be to replace the tensioner with some kind of arrangement along the lines of how single speed dirt jump bikes are tensioned - either a clamp system or some sort of spring loaded affair at the end of the chain stay. I've never seen anything like that but I would imagine there are development prototypes around. If it were me in the market, I'd want to see more refinement in then engineering than is out there today.

 

[slickrock]

... and the tensioner system is arguably replacing one vulnerable component with another. Peddling is ok but not as efficient as a traditional mech set up which is an element that a motor disguises rather than cures. ...

On the upside, the maintenance is a doddle & wear is way less of a problem. IMO, one way forward with the belt system would be to replace the tensioner with some kind of arrangement along the lines of how single speed dirt jump bikes are tensioned - either a clamp system or some sort of spring loaded affair at the end of the chain stay. I've never seen anything like that but I would imagine there are development prototypes around. If it were me in the market, I'd want to see more refinement in then engineering than is out there today.

Something really must be done about spring tensioners to enable MGUs to take off once we get better iterations of the motor tech. As mentioned before, they should either be made much simpler and lighter or obviated altogether. The Pinion tensioner is one of the worst since its undercarriage location makes it the most vulnerable to damage, buy hey at least it can function as a chain guard The rest leave a lot to be desired in current form -I have a tensioner from Universal Transmissions that weighs over a pound! The Villiger MGU actually has spring tensioner integrated into the MGU chassis, but I haven't heard from the company for a couple of years now.

You mentioned dirt bikes, which can give a hint about what could be in the future of MGUs - dirt bikes have concentric or very nearly concentric wheel paths and so don't require a tensioner. Those that do have fixed tensioners (i.e. simple and minimal) to get the chain tight enough if the cycle doesn't have horizontal dropouts. With current MTB/EMTB suspension designs there is way too much chain growth to get away with this, unless of course you come out with the EMTB that actually has a concentric wheel path, just like a dirt bike. As of now, no current MGU bikes have taken this step, but I think it necessity will eventually meet invention at some point.

 

[mbenoit]

On my Delite5 and Homage5 from Riese & Müller, the kinematics and design are slightly different:

• The spring tensioner is hidden inside the frame, so it’s protected from shocks. There is also a small lever to release the spring tension, which makes removing the rear wheel easier.
• The front sprocket is small enough not to be exposed.
• Finally, both the upper and lower runs of the belt are on the same side of the frame, meaning there’s no need to open the frame when replacing the belt.
• 

 

[slickrock]

On my Delite5 and Homage5 from Riese & Müller, the kinematics and design are slightly different:

• The spring tensioner is hidden inside the frame, so it’s protected from shocks. There is also a small lever to release the spring tension, which makes removing the rear wheel easier.
• The front sprocket is small enough not to be exposed.
• Finally, both the upper and lower runs of the belt are on the same side of the frame, meaning there’s no need to open the frame when replacing the belt.
• View attachment 180645

This is brilliant! I wonder if it's patented because otherwise this approach can solve numerous issues of with belt drive setups, not just tensioner issues:

1. Lighter weight, more minimalist design
2. Tucked away from bashes from the underside, though do need that fender to keep mud away.
3. Reduces chain growth (i.e. kickback), by somewhat mimicking a concentric single pivot - a kind of like an inverted high-pivot idler design.
4. Finally, a belt drive solution for VPP, DW4, and other designs that have a unified rear triangle and abhor an elevated chainstay.

This should help the MGU cause.

 

[Scott_123]

MGU technology is still about 5 years away in my opinion. Very promising but yes, anyone who owns one now and in the next few years IS a beta tester, that is a fact. Will this technically take hold and be the future, not sure?

 

[TonTonUB]

Less gears and maybe BMX strong chain as an option, could also help (belt is a repulsive for many riders).

MGU / CVT manufacturers also need to FINISH the job.
When i see Pinion being dependent of the FIT crap ... oh god.

MGU / CVT need a fulll ecosystem (or integration) te be properly released and penetrate the market, like DJI dit with the avinox : motor PLUS slim / optimized battery PLUS wireless controler PLUS advanced screen IN ONE PACKAGE.

Building an innovative MGU / CVT , and selling it with outdated extensions is like begging for failure.
INTEGRATION of all the components (not the mgu / cvt alone) is the key.

When i look at pinion, owuru or intradrive ... i hope.
When i realize they don't have battery, controler etc ... i feel bad.
When i watch video with crappy controler and bulging battery (with proto of those system) ... i fear the worst end (edited for great justice)

 

[Atos62]

We should revisit this in 12 months.

I might have not resisted if the gear steps were not evenly distributed, bigger steps at the short end and smaller steps at the long end

 

[doochenozzle]

I might have not resisted if the gear steps were not evenly distributed, bigger steps at the short end and smaller steps at the long end

I think we’ll see sram transmission next year designed for e-bikes. Tighter range cassettes (10-45?), fewer gears, shorter derailleur cages and stronger chains.
I think we’ll also get at least one more mgu launch at sea otter next year.

 

[TonTonUB]

Has anyone tested a MGU with a chain ? BMX chain or regular mtb chain ? What were the pros and cons ?
I wonder if MGU paired with strong BMX chains could help their acceptance ?

 

[Frompi]

Rottwild has a model with chain

 

[TonTonUB]

Rottwild has a model with chain

Yep, but we now need to grab the guy who rode it

 

[slickrock]

Less gears and maybe BMX strong chain as an option, could also help (belt is a repulsive for many riders).

MGU / CVT manufacturers also need to FINISH the job.
When i see Pinion being dependent of the FIT crap ... oh god.

MGU / CVT need a fulll ecosystem (or integration) te be properly released and penetrate the market, like DJI dit with the avinox : motor PLUS slim / optimized battery PLUS wireless controler PLUS advanced screen IN ONE PACKAGE.

Building an innovative MGU / CVT , and selling it with outdated extensions is like begging for failure.
INTEGRATION of all the components (not the mgu / cvt alone) is the key.

When i look at pinion, owuru or intradrive ... i hope.
When i realize they don't have battery, controler etc ... i feel bad.
When i watch video with crappy controler and bulging battery (with proto of those system) ... i fear the worst end (edited for great justice)

This is real problem for barrier of entry of smaller MGU players trying to get into the market (e.g. Interdrive). You evaluate ebike motors as an entire system - it's that new player DJI didn't just have a powerful motor, it's that it had excellent efficient battery tech, control system, and UI as well. This is why Bosch, SRAM, Shimano, DJI needs to put out an MGU/MTU themselves. None of these small players really have a chance unless they get bought out by the big cats.

Regarding chains instead of belts, it's up to the bike brands to offer options on this front as MGU's support both. I feel in a way belts are pushed with MGU setups is because belts are "denied - Wayne's World style" with all derailleur setups.

 

[emonty]

4000 km ridden, 99,9% in the dirt, slob, rain, snow etc. Had MGU replaced at 3000 km, it has a 2 year warranty. Snapped a belt, replaced in 5 min. I do agree with what has been said BUT I love this bike, gives me a big grin everytime I ride it. Nicolai's service is top notch, they send me free spare snubbers, small parts without money asked. Yes I paid for all but the experience is good and I'm happy with the blind descision to buy this rig. Am I a beta tester, dunno, if so I accept it.