Pre-order starts next month - Next Crestline Avinox frame set

[E-NUB]

^^ I am running the polylight spokes as I got them before the polylightx came out. 165lbs here with a 55lb bike, and as said, LOVE them!! 28h front and 32h rear Onyx Classic hubs standard flange.

Worth mentioning, you can also "prep" most hubs to use these spokes and dont need the specific hook flange hubs for more options. Mine are Onyx that were prepped by the wheel builder. You can also go back to normal spokes if need be and warranties are not impacted.

Onyx hubs are perfectly silent, spin forever, and have super consistent instantaneous buttery smooth engagement every time you turn a crank arm! This wheelset totally transformed my bike over the oem alloys it came with for certain, and not a single con I can detect or report over 1k miles of rough terrain and high speeds.

 

[Onetime]

Are you using the Extreme spokes or regular on that wheel set?

Regular. I got these wheels built before the thicker spokes were an option. I’ve had these wheels since 22. Probably over 3,000 miles on them. I did just get a new front laced up not long ago when I switched from my 40 to a 38, 20mm axle to 15mm, so now I have a wheel for each fork.

 

[FrogSkunk]

^^ I am running the polylight spokes as I got them before the polylightx came out. 165lbs here with a 55lb bike, and as said, LOVE them!! 28h front and 32h rear Onyx Classic hubs standard flange.

Worth mentioning, you can also "prep" most hubs to use these spokes and dont need the specific hook flange hubs for more options. Mine are Onyx that were prepped by the wheel builder. You can also go back to normal spokes if need be and warranties are not impacted.

Onyx hubs are perfectly silent, spin forever, and have super consistent instantaneous buttery smooth engagement every time you turn a crank arm! This wheelset totally transformed my bike over the oem alloys it came with for certain, and not a single con I can detect or report over 1k miles of rough terrain and high speeds.

Ive had the same experience and cant imagine running a different hub. I have read some pretty awful reviews about the Vespers, but I think most of them were from the original version.

Ive run my Vespers on two separate, full power eebs. I know Onyx recommends the classics for emtbs, but I have 2,000 miles on mine with zero issue. Some of the miles are on milder xc type trails, but Ive been primarily hitting bike parks or similar in the past year.

On a separate topic, I reached out to Avinox support to feel them out. On Crestlines website, it says to contact them directly for warranty and after sales….. when I first read it, I thought it was concerning. After re-reading it, Im still not sure lol

 

[E-NUB]

Funny, the emtb has somehow made me realize a silent ride is a main quality I enjoy on the trails! I seriously was really sold on the "quietest eeb to date" statement I admit.

Went for a ride with my buddy the other day and I said "wait up, do you hear that on my bike"? He said "no, hear what"?

I said "exactly" as his ride squeaked and creaked over every bump and pump, and littered the air with that old freewheel ruckus..!!

 

[TTEngineer]

I’m also on the standard spokes. I think the new thicker ones came out this winter.

My Ripmo/Berd set has the classic Onyx that was prepped as mentioned above, but my new set for the 181.2 will be hook flange.

I’ll die on the hill of pedal kick back not being an issue. I think what most people perceive as pedal kick back is their feet pulling on the pedals as their heels drop and the suspension progression ramping up on bottom out.

I used to ride clipless 100% of the time and would ride heels up since I didn’t require the friction of the pedal/shoe interface to help control the bike. So when I switched to flats I was a little shocked at how heels down felt through my feet. Almost as if the bike was kicking. But I truly think that and a placebo are what most folks call “kickback”.

I never heard a single person complain about “kickback” until the O-chain was released. I’m willing to bet none of you had either.

If it really were an issue, high engagement hubs wouldn’t exist.

 

[FrogSkunk]

I havent experienced it either. Ive never been on a VPP bike though, so I guess I will find out. That said, I was thinking about buying the Rimpacts ‘solution’. I wanted to have it in case I needed it, but thats silly. I might as well wait and see if its something needed. I almost fell victim to the hype machine

Since ‘kickback’ has been a topic recently, I have been trying to feel it on my Levo. Oddly enough, I notice now on big jumps, my pedals will actually kick forward. When I land, my feet do about a 1/4 or a rotation forward. I never noticed it until all the kickback talk. I guess someone needs to start marketing ’kick-forward’ device

 

[TTEngineer]

This video does a great job of explaining it. Essentially though pedal kick back is negated by forward movement of the rear wheel.

Climbing is a little different, but even then, as with down hill, you should be un-weighting the rear wheel to help momentum over the obstacle.

I love this guys videos too btw. I’m a civil engineer, not mechanical, and this guy has a very clean way of explaining what’s going on and includes his math.


Here is another video, less scientific, but he’s in the right track. You can do this at home too, except I would spin the rear wheel while moving the suspension and place a hand on the cranks to see if you feel any movement. Spoiler, you won’t.

We’d be snapping chains if kick back was real.

 

[E-NUB]

I am definitely sensing some excessive saddle and grip kickback on my current emtb, especially over the rougher terrain and the faster I go out there!!

Found out the human body is the ultimate anti-kick back device. Never "kick back" or you'll get kicked right off!

 

[Brawwp]

Kickback is real. Sorry guys. 100% can also be demonstrated and there’s plenty videos on this.

Does it matter to you specifically, maybe not, so don’t worry about it. Each bike is also different. Yours may not have noticeable kickback.

 

[John_likes_bikes]

Ive had the same experience and cant imagine running a different hub. I have read some pretty awful reviews about the Vespers, but I think most of them were from the original version.

Ive run my Vespers on two separate, full power eebs. I know Onyx recommends the classics for emtbs, but I have 2,000 miles on mine with zero issue. Some of the miles are on milder xc type trails, but Ive been primarily hitting bike parks or similar in the past year.

On a separate topic, I reached out to Avinox support to feel them out. On Crestlines website, it says to contact them directly for warranty and after sales….. when I first read it, I thought it was concerning. After re-reading it, Im still not sure lol

View attachment 178315

Troydon mentioned on the Vital podcast, kind of in passing "there's a warehouse in California stocked with warranty items."

 

[FrogSkunk]

Troydon mentioned on the Vital podcast, kind of in passing "there's a warehouse in California stocked with warranty items."

Oh yes, I do remember that. Im not worried about it or anything. Ppl were discussing it and I figured I would reach out and see what Avinox had to say. Sounds like a pretty solid platform from most everything I’ve read.
Idk if I can handle the waiting game anymore hahhaa

 

[Suns_PSD]

I mean does 'warehouse of warranty parts' mean broken parts that were returned or new spares ready to manage warranty claims?

I suspect that SoCal is not a place where most experience motor failures as a result of the lack of rain.

 

[John_likes_bikes]

I mean does 'warehouse of warranty parts' mean broken parts that were returned or new spares ready to manage warranty claims?

I suspect that SoCal is not a place where most experience motor failures as a result of the lack of rain.

What do you think?

Socal is close to Asia, many asian based companies US operations are based out of CA for proximity.

 

[Suns_PSD]

The term warranty parts implies broken returns to me.

Spare parts, or parts warehouse would imply new supply.

Whatever though.

 

[TTEngineer]

Kickback is real. Sorry guys. 100% can also be demonstrated and there’s plenty videos on this.

Does it matter to you specifically, maybe not, so don’t worry about it. Each bike is also different. Yours may not have noticeable kickback.

It can only be demonstrated in a static position.

Induce forward wheel motion and it’s negated. This can also be demonstrated.

 

[Brawwp]

It can only be demonstrated in a static position.

Induce forward wheel motion and it’s negated. This can also be demonstrated.

The cassette isn’t moving with forward wheel motion while not pedaling. Kickback can visually be seen on many slo mo videos while in motion and feedback can be felt. That 100% is a real thing. Now that can also come from chain slap causing the feedback as well, but both are very real things. Again, does it really matter to the average Joe, probably not.

Think of the entire reasoning why high pivot bikes were made. And yes I know the kinematics of how the rear wheel moves rearward is another “benefit,” but they were firstly made to eliminate kickback. You also have o chain, special hubs, etc etc. These reputable companies’ engineers didn’t put in countless hours to make these devices for a gimmick device. If it wasn’t good or make a difference it would die out, so what would be the point? To overcome the cost to engineer these they want to sell them for a while I’d imagine. Most every downhill professional has o chain now. Those guys aren’t running that for no reason.

 

[Lightme]

It can only be demonstrated in a static position.

Induce forward wheel motion and it’s negated. This can also be demonstrated.

Jesus. Sounds like you should write an email to the entire World Cup DH field. I’m sure they’d love to be corrected by you.

 

[Brawwp]

Ey we should banter about this in the kickback thread though. I didn’t realize what thread this is….

Ps I sure hope it’s real because I got the sidekick hubs for my crestline build

 

[Lfhao]

Darn you guys got me interested in Berd spokes now… Can I use DT 240 deg hubs? I’d like to get the anti-kickback DF feature.

 

[E-NUB]

Darn you guys got me interested in Berd spokes now… Can I use DT 240 deg hubs? I’d like to get the anti-kickback DF feature.

You can, but you need to prep the hubs with their builder kit or have this done by your wheel builder.

Wondering what else I "need" for this thing too.. I love trying out new grips, such a cheap and quick way to really change the feel of the ride. They get shredded pretty quick too, and there is quite a bit to choose from out there.

Checked out the Crestline site and legacy bike build details for inspiration from brother "T" himself, and saw the S180 "Classic" came with Trail One Farlow Gap grips. Decided to give them a shot and ordered some up, why not?!

Since I had their promo code going I tossed in a black titanium top cap bolt, stem bolts, and rotor bolts I saw they offered and thought oh hell yeah. I "needed" a black top cap bolt to go with this beautiful centerpiece anyhow:

Gotta be ready for when this thing arrives!

Curious what are your favorite grips out there for some further inspiration?!

 

[TTEngineer]

Ey we should banter about this in the kickback thread though. I didn’t realize what thread this is….

Ps I sure hope it’s real because I got the sidekick hubs for my crestline build

Fair enough.


Back to bike at hand, having never ridden a Crestline, has anyone here ridden both the Bosch and Avinox versions?

Id like to know if there were any difrences in how the bike performed outside of the motor differeances. Was there an improvement from v1 to v2?

@Rob Rides EMTB has there been any noticable ride difference, out side of motor changes, from v2 to v3, er 181.1 to 181.2?

 

[mrtrinh]

Fair enough.


Back to bike at hand, having never ridden a Crestline, has anyone here ridden both the Bosch and Avinox versions?

Id like to know if there were any difrences in how the bike performed outside of the motor differeances. Was there an improvement from v1 to v2?

@Rob Rides EMTB has there been any noticable ride difference, out side of motor changes, from v2 to v3, er 181.1 to 181.2?

I've had the bosch and now currently on the Avinox both with the same suspension. They rode pretty much the same,

Fair enough.


Back to bike at hand, having never ridden a Crestline, has anyone here ridden both the Bosch and Avinox versions?

Id like to know if there were any difrences in how the bike performed outside of the motor differeances. Was there an improvement from v1 to v2?

@Rob Rides EMTB has there been any noticable ride difference, out side of motor changes, from v2 to v3, er 181.1 to 181.2?

I've had both the bosch and avonix. Suspension kinematics and geometry was identical. Main difference is the longer avinox battery which changes the weight distribution more forward . You get accustomed to it after a couple rides.

 

[Suns_PSD]

I really want to hear more about this honestly. Anything else you can share?

 

[Michaelll]

I’d be curious if you

I've had the bosch and now currently on the Avinox both with the same suspension. They rode pretty much the same,

I've had both the bosch and avonix. Suspension kinematics and geometry was identical. Main difference is the longer avinox battery which changes the weight distribution more forward . You get accustomed to it after a couple rides.

I’d be curious if you noticed the rear end flex? There have been two reviews that go out of their way to point out how flexy the rear of the bike is on both the Bosch and the Avinox.

 

[Scford]

I’d be curious if you

I’d be curious if you noticed the rear end flex? There have been two reviews that go out of their way to point out how flexy the rear of the bike is on both the Bosch and the Avinox.

I don’t notice a lot of flex, mind you I’m not a really hard rider. I had a 1st gen bullit and while i also didnt think it was super flexy i did have a lot of tire rub on the inside seat stays. I dont have any rub on my crestline, could also be that its a wider triangle though. Running (ran) aluminum wheels on both bikes because i wanted a more compliant ride.

 

[TTEngineer]

I’d be curious if you

I’d be curious if you noticed the rear end flex? There have been two reviews that go out of their way to point out how flexy the rear of the bike is on both the Bosch and the Avinox.

I think one of those reviews was that teenager with the peach fuzz mustache? I’d take what that kid says with a giant grain of salt.

He’s made some outlandish claims in his other “reviews”.

I also don’t trust what Pink Bike says. They dogged the Ripmo v3 and that bike is hard to beat.

I tend to trust what random owners say more. Larger sample size, no corporate overlords to cow tail too, no advertisers to piss off, etc.

 

[Blownoutrides]

Not sure.

Anyone off to Sea Otter this year? Heading out there for the first time.

If you come through SF hit me up!

 

[mrtrinh]

I’d be curious if you

I’d be curious if you noticed the rear end flex? There have been two reviews that go out of their way to point out how flexy the rear of the bike is on both the Bosch and the Avinox.

I think one of those reviews was that teenager with the peach fuzz mustache? I’d take what that kid says with a giant grain of salt.

He’s made some outlandish claims in his other “reviews”.

I also don’t trust what Pink Bike says. They dogged the Ripmo v3 and that bike is hard to beat.

I tend to trust what random owners say more. Larger sample size, no corporate overlords to cow tail too, no advertisers to piss off, etc.

I dont notice flex but like scford im not a super hard rider and I weigh 150lbs. Unless you're a racer or on the heavier side I dont think the flex will be much of an issue. Troydon himself isn't a light guy and he can rip the bike.

 

[Michaelll]

I think one of those reviews was that teenager with the peach fuzz mustache? I’d take what that kid says with a giant grain of salt.

He’s made some outlandish claims in his other “reviews”.

I also don’t trust what Pink Bike says. They dogged the Ripmo v3 and that bike is hard to beat.

I tend to trust what random owners say more. Larger sample size, no corporate overlords to cow tail too, no advertisers to piss off, etc.

One was the kid but he can clearly ride. The trails he was on are no joke. The other was Brian Cahill who I think is pretty knowledgeable. He tested 40 bikes last year. Everything from emtb’s to enduro/trail to DH so he has a reference point. Everyone obviously has their own preferences in what they are looking for but they both were saying it’s really flexy. Not compliant or flexy but reeeaallyy flexy.

 

[Onetime]

One was the kid but he can clearly ride. The trails he was on are no joke. The other was Brian Cahill who I think is pretty knowledgeable. He tested 40 bikes last year. Everything from emtb’s to enduro/trail to DH so he has a reference point. Everyone obviously has their own preferences in what they are looking for but they both were saying it’s really flexy. Not compliant or flexy but reeeaallyy flexy.

I haven’t heard of any owners complaining about it. I know a few, including heavy hard riders and they all love their bikes. So I wouldn’t worry about it. If it’s a big concern, don’t buy one.