Avinox M2

[Biano44]

I'm unsure why we have all this doubt......I was under the impression we all knew the same things.
M2 is a cheaper, slightly heavier unit for entry level bikes, and M1 is getting an update and a little more power.

I'm not sure why people think DJI/Avinox would sit back on their laurels and let the other brands catch up....better tighten the screw I'd say.

 

[emtbeast]

Personally I find it very unlikely that we will see the 600wh become 800wh and 800wh to 1kwh for the same size and weight. What this means is we would need to see roughly a 25% jump in cell density for the 800wh pack and 33% for the 600wh. Also worth noting the density % should match for both, if the 800wh sees a 25% jump so should the 600wh.

Right now we know DJI uses the LG M58, rated at 20.88wh nominal, 20wh minimum (looks like DJI claims the min spec for their batteries). Using the 800wh pack with it's more believable 25% jump they would need to use roughly a 7ah 21700. While companies have mentioned a possible cell in their future lineup year(s) down the road nothing has even been spotted in sampling testing, much less full production to the public yet.
What we do have though is 6.5ah 23.4wh cells, FEB has just started sending out samples, and Molicel also has a cell expected Q1. Both are very very new, leading to my skepticism another .5ah will happen within months. I find it way more likely these cells or ones around that capacity will be used in any upcoming battery release. What this would mean is the 600wh would become a 702wh (690wh min claimed) and the 800wh becoming 936wh (920wh min claimed). While retaining the same battery size and a very small weight gain, 30g / 40g.

Because we know DJI runs a 36v 10s system we can pretty much say for sure a 1000wh battery isn't going to happen without a huge weight and size penalty due to the current 40 21700 cells max design. If they did want to they would need another parallel group for 50 total cells. And assuming it could fit would bring the weight estimated roughly to 4.65kg, 1kwh claimed for the current cells, 1150wh claimed for M65A's. Unless DJI goes up in voltage, but I find this unlikely for the time being especially if they want to maintain compatibility with the M1.

Nice writeup, happy to see my dji battery pack predictions picked up movement... the new capacity numbers used are my predictions and calculations if I am not mistaken...right?
____
My add up, from my research the weight difference would be slightly bigger than you stated, but not a lot.

Regarding the weight, I checked the cell weights. The current Avinox batteries are supposedly using the LG M58T 5,5Ah cells that weigh 71,2g. The new Molicel M65A weighs 74,5g, the new FEB states less than 75g so about the same. That's a difference of 3,3g per cell.

If the use the same material and thickness battery pack casing:

The 936Wh would weigh cca 130g(40x3,3g) more, so 3,74kg + 0,13kg ≈ 3,9kg.

The 702Wh would weigh cca 100g(30x3,3g) more, so 2,87kg + 0,1kg ≈ 3kg.

With a different casing material(magnesium alloy) the slight increase in weight due to the cells could most possibly be negated, although I think it's probably not economically justified.

 

[Powerslider]

I'm unsure why we have all this doubt......I was under the impression we all knew the same things.
M2 is a cheaper, slightly heavier unit for entry level bikes, and M1 is getting an update and a little more power.

I'm not sure why people think DJI/Avinox would sit back on their laurels and let the other brands catch up....better tighten the screw I'd say.

If it’s so easy to “tighten the screw” why this approach? Build a new flagship motor and let the existing one become the cheaper model for entry level bikes.

 

[DylanJM]

If it’s so easy to “tighten the screw” why this approach? Build a new flagship motor and let the existing one become the cheaper model for entry level bikes.

Isn't that essentially what's happening? It would make sense for both tiers to retain the same mounting pattern and just change stuff around that.

 

[Rando_12345]

If it’s so easy to “tighten the screw” why this approach? Build a new flagship motor and let the existing one become the cheaper model for entry level bikes.

Shimano had the ep8 and ep6, bosch at some points had weird variants like the "cargo line" and of course the race version.

I think it's important to think beyond our world of e-mtbs, the rumours so far point towards the M1 keeping the name for the prestigious motor with minor updates, and an M2 coming in mostly for other applications (commuters, whatever an "e-suv" is, cargo...) but also available on entry level builds to save cost.

I'm more excited to find out what the battery and amflow v2 frame specs will be at this point. Hope the Amflow price point doesn't go up too much though...

 

[Biano44]

Shimano had the ep8 and ep6, bosch at some points had weird variants like the "cargo line" and of course the race version.

I think it's important to think beyond our world of e-mtbs, the rumours so far point towards the M1 keeping the name for the prestigious motor with minor updates, and an M2 coming in mostly for other applications (commuters, whatever an "e-suv" is, cargo...) but also available on entry level builds to save cost.

I'm more excited to find out what the battery and amflow v2 frame specs will be at this point. Hope the Amflow price point doesn't go up too much though...

I think the plan for Amflow is to introduce a lower end Alloy bike with the M2 and an Enduro style bike with the updated M1 - probably just update the current Trail bike.

 

[Ribinrobin]

Range extender for the Avinox

 

[DylanJM]

View attachment 174399

Range extender for the Avinox

An official product or 3rd party?

 

[Powerslider]

Forums can be wild.

The guys participating in the Crestline thread are all but certain the M2 is the new flagship motor coming on their new frame. Over here there appears to be just as much certainty the M1 will remain the flagship and the M2 is less than.

 

[Ribinrobin]

An official product or 3rd party?

It’s an official prototype according to the post.

 

[Highland Wheels]

Forums can be wild.

The guys participating in the Crestline thread are all but certain the M2 is the new flagship motor coming on their new frame. Over here there appears to be just as much certainty the M1 will remain the flagship and the M2 is less than.

I think the M2 sounds like it'll be the cheaper offering, it's been specced on the 26/27 Forbidden entry spec build

 

[Wah]

It’s an official prototype according to the post.

explains the new charge port

 

[Suns_PSD]

Forums can be wild.

The guys participating in the Crestline thread are all but certain the M2 is the new flagship motor coming on their new frame. Over here there appears to be just as much certainty the M1 will remain the flagship and the M2 is less than.

We're just doing a circle jerk about bikes. This is what we do to entertain ourselves until the facts are known.

I have a guess but it's just that, a guess. We'll all know soon enough.

 

[Scott_123]

Well if those bike frame pictures are real there is no doubt Amflow was not “one and done” to get their motor out there. It appears they will be coming out with a 2nd generation EMTB. What will be powering it who knows. My guess would be the Amflow bike will be the first and only bike to get the new motor. May as well generate the Amflow sales first before releasing it to other manufacturers.

 

[DylanJM]

What will powering it who knows.

Shimano powered is what I heard.

 

[Bengy22]

Nice writeup, happy to see my dji battery pack predictions picked up movement... the new capacity numbers used are my predictions and calculations if I am not mistaken...right?
____
My add up, from my research the weight difference would be slightly bigger than you stated, but not a lot.

Regarding the weight, I checked the cell weights. The current Avinox batteries are supposedly using the LG M58T 5,5Ah cells that weigh 71,2g. The new Molicel M65A weighs 74,5g, the new FEB states less than 75g so about the same. That's a difference of 3,3g per cell.

If the use the same material and thickness battery pack casing:

The 936Wh would weigh cca 130g(40x3,3g) more, so 3,74kg + 0,13kg ≈ 3,9kg.

The 702Wh would weigh cca 100g(30x3,3g) more, so 2,87kg + 0,1kg ≈ 3kg.

With a different casing material(magnesium alloy) the slight increase in weight due to the cells could most possibly be negated, although I think it's probably not economically justified.

I haven't seen you comment about any predictions, numbers were mine but looks like we are thinking the same things then .

Reason why I came to a different and smaller weight gain was the M65A lists a max weight of 74.5g/e while the datasheet I found on the M58T lists it at 73.2g/e max. But now looking more I also see another version where the M58T also claims 71.2g but importantly that is not a "max" figure. While it's only speculation I assume this is more of a typical weight for that cell. Unfortunately the Molicel only has the "max" weight claim so it's kind of apples to oranges to compare a typical to max weight. Especially when we know the M65A is going to have examples well below that figure just like every other cell on the market. So personally I would stick to comparing max until more is known.

74.5g - 73.2g = A 1.2g increase for each cell in the battery at that claimed max weight. I did round down which looking back I shouldn't have to 1g+/e but that would be +36g for the current 600wh and +48g for the current 800wh. The FEB cell lists a max weight of 75g, so a extra +15g / +20g on top of that.

And yes I do believe there is a chance that the weight gain could be mitigated, they now have lots of real world data on their batteries and how they hold up. They might find a few design choices they could make to take a few grams off the case that wouldn't hurt strength without even changing the material.

 

[John_likes_bikes]

When Avinox does announce whatever details they have planned, site traffic here is going to half immediately.

 

[John_likes_bikes]

This is the new range extender.

It's actually the charger, shhhhh.

 

[FrogSkunk]

Nice writeup, happy to see my dji battery pack predictions picked up movement... the new capacity numbers used are my predictions and calculations if I am not mistaken...right?
____
My add up, from my research the weight difference would be slightly bigger than you stated, but not a lot.

Regarding the weight, I checked the cell weights. The current Avinox batteries are supposedly using the LG M58T 5,5Ah cells that weigh 71,2g. The new Molicel M65A weighs 74,5g, the new FEB states less than 75g so about the same. That's a difference of 3,3g per cell.

If the use the same material and thickness battery pack casing:

The 936Wh would weigh cca 130g(40x3,3g) more, so 3,74kg + 0,13kg ≈ 3,9kg.

The 702Wh would weigh cca 100g(30x3,3g) more, so 2,87kg + 0,1kg ≈ 3kg.

With a different casing material(magnesium alloy) the slight increase in weight due to the cells could most possibly be negated, although I think it's probably not economically justified.

Are they using tabless cells? If not, could they improve the batteries by moving to tabless?

I really dont know much about these batteries and just found out about tabless batteries today

 

[MINO]

My dilemma, i kinda have to buy now but i would fell so much better if Amflow/Avinox was in it's second generation i'm going to hate myself if a new motor drops in 6 weeks and iron out all the minor issues with the bike/motor and give it some extra power (not that it needs it). But any update on current gen means instant depreciation on the older gen bike. Hopefully i can get a better discount if the rumors are true.

 

[ShapeThings]

My dilemma, i kinda have to buy now but i would fell so much better if Amflow/Avinox was in it's second generation i'm going to hate myself if a new motor drops in 6 weeks and iron out all the minor issues with the bike/motor and give it some extra power (not that it needs it). But any update on current gen means instant depreciation on the older gen bike. Hopefully i can get a better discount if the rumors are true.

You can't expect an ebike to hold any value. Just have to look at like I'm about to light $10k on fire or make a real dumb all-or-nothing bet in Las Vegas. I have been stalling on selling an eBike because I know I'm going to get nothing for it.

 

[ShapeThings]

I think the M2 sounds like it'll be the cheaper offering, it's been specced on the 26/27 Forbidden entry spec build

Lines up with the leaked screen grab with the new "entry level" Core4 eDruid with the M2. Regret not saving it.

Avinox — and the Chinese companies in general — aren't messing around. Consumer electronics and EV's shows how fast they iterate.

 

[Ribinrobin]

Someone say leaked screen shot! Where’s the juice I want to see the colourways

 

[DylanJM]

How many people are missing the tiny text underneath the photo....

 

[knut7]

Are they using tabless cells? If not, could they improve the batteries by moving to tabless?

I really dont know much about these batteries and just found out about tabless batteries today

No, not a tabless design. But it seems the m65a has an improved tab design that shortens the path which current travels. A tabless design is more complex, it's more expensive and potentially less safe.

Albeit not tabless, the m65a is quite a step up from the LG m58t in every way. Except for price that is, which seems to have doubled. The reduced internal resistance makes it a better cell with improved cold weather perfromance, charge and discharge rate. Also, cycle life will be improved in practice.

 

[emtbeast]

I haven't seen you comment about any predictions, numbers were mine but looks like we are thinking the same things then .

Reason why I came to a different and smaller weight gain was the M65A lists a max weight of 74.5g/e while the datasheet I found on the M58T lists it at 73.2g/e max. But now looking more I also see another version where the M58T also claims 71.2g but importantly that is not a "max" figure. While it's only speculation I assume this is more of a typical weight for that cell. Unfortunately the Molicel only has the "max" weight claim so it's kind of apples to oranges to compare a typical to max weight. Especially when we know the M65A is going to have examples well below that figure just like every other cell on the market. So personally I would stick to comparing max until more is known.

74.5g - 73.2g = A 1.2g increase for each cell in the battery at that claimed max weight. I did round down which looking back I shouldn't have to 1g+/e but that would be +36g for the current 600wh and +48g for the current 800wh. The FEB cell lists a max weight of 75g, so a extra +15g / +20g on top of that.

And yes I do believe there is a chance that the weight gain could be mitigated, they now have lots of real world data on their batteries and how they hold up. They might find a few design choices they could make to take a few grams off the case that wouldn't hurt strength without even changing the material.

Aha interesting, yeah my posts are in the Avinox M2 SL forum and the Forbidden druid e forum, but exactly the same numbers 936Wh and 702Wh.

The weight difference isnt significant I agree. I guess we can also agree that with a few changes like reducing thickness of housing case walls by 0,1 mm or more and adding cross reinforcement for material stability the increased cell weights can be offset even with the same housing materials.

 

[downunderdallas]

Ok so now who has a business/sales background?
lol jk.

But yeah the Avinox was introduced July 2024. Dji releases a new action cam almost every year and drones every 1-2 years. It’s not too surprising theyll have something new mid 2026.

The Chinese seem to work at a frenetic pace. We get their electric cars here in Australia and by the time they release the car here China often already has a new model often inside a year!

 

[deserthi]

Everyone of those new bikes with the Avinox motor will cost more than the Amflow bike you can be sure.

 

[deserthi]

AMFLOW will be the first to arrive, with a groundbreaking price. When they're unveiled in ~January, they'll once again dominate the market. A new engine? Of course: Avinox's latest will be featured in their main partner's model before anyone else. If you were thinking of buying an Avinox motorcycle, you'd probably wait. Some dealers are offering a 15% discount and lights on 2025 AMflow models.

View attachment 174448 View attachment 174449

I can not find these discounts anywhere and I am looking for a deal.

 

[deserthi]

Discounts on the Pro in the UK now from a few dealers - £9k to £7.7k

AMFLOW PL Carbon Pro 2026 £7699.00

Buy AMFLOW PL Carbon Pro 2026 for £7699.00 at Leisure Wheels

www.leisurewheels.co.uk

AM Flow AM Flow PL Carbon Pro 800Wh £7699.00

Buy AM Flow AM Flow PL Carbon Pro 800Wh for £7699.00 at Cannock Chase Cycle Centre

shop.cannockchasecyclecentre.co.uk

Could be clearing stock before the new model

I don't think they are clearing stock. The price in the US went down $1000 during the holidays but now it is back up to the original price. I know one guy called them and said he had been on holiday and when he got back the price had went back up and wanted the lower price and they said no.