Avinox M2

[ShapeThings]

Got lost in the debate last page about 'why bother to release a new improved motor when they are already better than the competition'...a bit strange to see debate on whether to improve or not...forums I guess. I wouldn't buy an M1 for the rattle, I would buy an M2 for the non-rattle.

I don’t think there is much debate, I think it’s one person.

Avinox not updating is like Apple saying no iPhone 18 this September, we nailed it with the 17.

 

[irie]

I don’t think there is much debate, I think it’s one person.

Avinox not updating is like Apple saying no iPhone 18 this September, we nailed it with the 17.

If Avinox is also a fashion item then it makes sense to skip a few 'generations'.

 

[Rando_12345]

I don’t think there is much debate, I think it’s one person.

Avinox not updating is like Apple saying no iPhone 18 this September, we nailed it with the 17.

Not even sure there was one person, the argument was more whether some noise reduction and maybe small power bump would warrant a new name/generation.

Only thing I havn't seen much discussion about is user repairability and maybe even hardware customisation. Could be a pretty appealing aspect for some.

I've said this before more generally, and don't expect it to happen, but any manufacturer that would put out a 4 year warranty could capture a huge chunk of the market with the right frame manufacturer onboard...

 

[irie]

I've said this before more generally, and don't expect it to happen, but any manufacturer that would put out a 4 year warranty could capture a huge chunk of the market with the right frame manufacturer onboard...

Or motors fully repairable by such as www.ebikemotorcentre.com

 

[entrechats]

Hi,
I had some news today because I was also skeptical to get a bike with the new version of the Avinox this month. I double checked, and my local dealer too, and it was wrong info. The bikes with the updated version of the Avinox should be delivered around April-May. But there is no info about the new version, a rumor it could be 10Nm more couple.. Let see..

 

[Powerslider]

I don’t think there is much debate, I think it’s one person.

Avinox not updating is like Apple saying no iPhone 18 this September, we nailed it with the 17.

Apple sells well over 200 million iPhones a year; while DJI sells a tiny fraction of Avinox motors. The economies are completely different. I'm baffled how people fail to understand how different the markets are.

 

[Suns_PSD]

I have no idea how to build an electrical motor but I doubt it's a ground up redesign. I'm sure that there are things that occur with wiring, clearances, gear lash/ clearance, sealing, materials, maybe voltage & capacitors plus software that can be easily optimized with just a few redesigns and changes on the already existed assembly line.
Either way, regardless of what we think, a new or updated Avinox motor is 100% coming.
The Asian economy is different than Western economies. Western economies used to be hungry, fast to adapt, not bogged down by so many rules (many such as worker protections are very good obviously), etc. That's where Asia is now hungry and just coming out of extreme poverty.
Don't worry, in another generation they'll be as fat and lazy as westerners voting for stupid shortsighted policies based on 24/ 7 cable news editorials.

 

[Powerslider]

I've seen it take weeks to months just to decide what product a company even wants to build. Kind of depends on how much research needs to be done. Then there's design and engineering the that will take months. Initial test production runs take additional months. Then there's testing the pre-production units that we all don't want to be half assed. Hopefully there isn't a lot more engineering to do after pre-production testing. Then there's a short run of production units that are manufactured for the leadership to sign off on before final series production starts. Then series production takes at least a couple of months. Then there's the logistics of shipping containers across oceans. In my, albeit different market experience; a 12-18 month timeline is a very quick one. Not saying this excludes an all new Avinox motor design every year, but that would be an unbelievably impressive timeline if the product proved reliable. There's a lot of stressed moving parts in a motor that have to withstand harsh conditions; and a lot of different scenarios to test the performance and reliability of the product.

 

[Brawwp]

I've seen it take weeks to months just to decide what product a company even wants to build. Kind of depends on how much research needs to be done. Then there's design and engineering the that will take months. Initial test production runs take additional months. Then there's testing the pre-production units that we all don't want to be half assed. Hopefully there isn't a lot more engineering to do after pre-production testing. Then there's a short run of production units that are manufactured for the leadership to sign off on before final series production starts. Then series production takes at least a couple of months. Then there's the logistics of shipping containers across oceans. In my, albeit different market experience; a 12-18 month timeline is a very quick one. Not saying this excludes an all new Avinox motor design every year, but that would be an unbelievably impressive timeline if the product proved reliable. There's a lot of stressed moving parts in a motor that have to withstand harsh conditions; and a lot of different scenarios to test the performance of the product.

Have you been to china? They different…

They most likely aren’t developing an entirely new motor, it’s minor changes to an already great package. Could be new battery cells that are lighter in the same form factor, slightly tighter tolerances, some gearing change to make more torque… who knows, but I don’t see why they can’t do that in what 2-3 years it’s been out?

Avinox didn’t drop last year, it’s been out a couple now and they’ve probably been working on gen 2 before the first one even dropped.

The dirtbike industry commonly does this. You go to the showroom floor today and buy the newest bike, they’ve already been testing the next year model. And btw dirt bikes make pretty decent changes (some of the manufacturers) almost every year.

 

[Powerslider]

Have you been to china? They different…

They most likely aren’t developing an entirely new motor, it’s minor changes to an already great package. Could be new battery cells that are lighter in the same form factor, slightly tighter tolerances, some gearing change to make more torque… who knows, but I don’t see why they can’t do that in what 2-3 years it’s been out?

Avinox didn’t drop last year, it’s been out a couple now and they’ve probably been working on gen 2 before the first one even dropped.

The dirtbike industry commonly does this. You go to the showroom floor today and buy the newest bike, they’ve already been testing the next year model. And btw dirt bikes make pretty decent changes (some of the manufacturers) almost every year.

I worked for a Chinese company for years. I'm very familiar with how long things usually take.

Just think about the testing portion... Your manufacturing plant creates pre-production test units; you have to get them to testers; then they have to test them. How long does that take? Then you have to evaluate the test results and decide what changes need to be made if any. Not all changes will be software driven. Some may require reengineering, manufacturing new test units, and repeating testing.

Then consider the logistics of getting your final series production units landed at their destination. Without even considering the time to get them in and out of the container, just the time on the water is significant. Even China isn't moving containers any quicker than we fat westerners.

 

[Brawwp]

I worked for a Chinese company for years. I'm very familiar with how long things usually take.

Just think about the testing portion... Your manufacturing plant creates pre-production test units; you have to get them to testers; then they have to test them. How long does that take? Then you have to evaluate the test results and decide what changes need to be made if any. Not all changes will be software driven. Some may require reengineering, manufacturing new test units, and repeating testing.

Then consider the logistics of getting your final series production units landed at their destination. Without even considering the time to get them in and out of the container, just the time on the water is significant. Even China isn't moving containers any quicker than we fat westerners.

Ok so when the m2 comes out in April we will circle back lol.

We all get that these things take time, but your personal experience with one (maybe a few) companies doesn’t apply to every company. Maybe they work more/longer hours. Maybe they cut corners. Less restrictions. Who knows, but this kind of stuff is literally already being done by many many companies. New car every 2 years, new dirtbike every year, drones every year, action cams every year. Like I don’t even understand how this is being questioned so much lmao.

You guys keep saying “new motor every year.” It isn’t 1 year, the avinox has been out a couple years now.

 

[sethimus]

look at his avatar, telling

 

[Powerslider]

Ok so when the m2 comes out in April we will circle back lol.

We all get that these things take time, but your personal experience with one (maybe a few) companies doesn’t apply to every company. Maybe they work more/longer hours. Maybe they cut corners. Less restrictions. Who knows, but this kind of stuff is literally already being done by many many companies. New car every 2 years, new dirtbike every year, drones every year, action cams every year. Like I don’t even understand how this is being questioned so much lmao.

You guys keep saying “new motor every year.” It isn’t 1 year, the avinox has been out a couple years now.

It will be about two years so that aligns with an ambitious but realistic timeline I describe. Nobody should expect a new motor design (not a revision of a current design) every year. The economics don't support that short of a development cycle of an eMTB motor; and I don't see the market demand for it from Avinox either.

 

[Cabronista]

Not even sure there was one person, the argument was more whether some noise reduction and maybe small power bump would warrant a new name/generation.

It sounds like more than just 'noise reduction' but rather addressing play in the system which causes a rattling noise which to me is profound. My Gen4 Bosch felt like I needed a new DU bushing when riding but it was play in the motor (ie. rattle) - new Gen5 has addressed this, so if I bought a bike with a Bosch motor, my first question would be Gen4 or Gen5?

 

[Ndanger]

It sounds like more than just 'noise reduction' but rather addressing play in the system which causes a rattling noise which to me is profound. My Gen4 Bosch felt like I needed a new DU bushing when riding but it was play in the motor (ie. rattle) - new Gen5 has addressed this, so if I bought a bike with a Bosch motor, my first question would be Gen4 or Gen5?

Good point, about the Gen 4 to Gen 5 improvements. I think in part there is a disconnect in expectations, with how things were and what the future holds. In a legacy product cycle, a new generation usually means mostly cosmetic updates with a small spec tweak. What Avinox is doing feels closer to a software-style cadence: version X doesn’t sit still for four years, it becomes X+1, then X+2, with meaningful engineering changes along the way.

With that being the case, improvements like noise reduction, thermal management, feature integration, and power delivery aren’t “minor” polish, they’re the product maturing in real time. So, hold onto your tits Mildred, it may take a bit of adjustment… faster, incremental generations are probably where the emtb market is heading.

 

[ShapeThings]

Over ten years ago I worked at a fruit company in Silicon Valley that was known for making well-designed electronic gizmos. I was never invited into the inner, inner sanctum, but those who were told us that they would have the next two years widget already designed and laying about to maintain a design consistency. Not sure if they still do that, and the market scale is infinitely different, but they definitely operated years out. Chinese companies pretty much stole their whole brand and design ethos and supercharged it.

 

[Suns_PSD]

I rode a Gen5 last night and it was sooooo smooth and quiet but gosh dang it was powerful and hitting the 20mph cut off was easy and abrupt. It also pedaled very normal like when shut off.

 

[Blownoutrides]

I rode a Gen5 last night and it was sooooo smooth and quiet but gosh dang it was powerful and hitting the 20mph cut off was easy and abrupt. It also pedaled very normal like when shut off.

Wow.

Just took my Bosch gen 5 for a spin up the hill with the motor off to see how it feels analog. DANG... zero drag whatsoever. Like pedaling my enduro rig (albeit with a 15lb water bottle lol).

Given how much I like how this thing descends I'm seriously considering just selling the pedal rig and riding this with the motor off when I'm with my non-E buddies.

 

[Biano44]

Wow.

Just took my Bosch gen 5 for a spin up the hill with the motor off to see how it feels analog. DANG... zero drag whatsoever. Like pedaling my enduro rig (albeit with a 15lb water bottle lol).

Given how much I like how this thing descends I'm seriously considering just selling the pedal rig and riding this with the motor off when I'm with my non-E buddies.

Are you both drunk?

 

[Suns_PSD]

Are you both drunk?

Survey says 'definitely'.

 

[Scott_123]

DJI/Avinox tried to sell their motor pre-production and no one believed what Avinox claimed their motor could do, so they had no takers. The Amflow was produced to show everyone what they were missing out on. Now they have picked up many different bike brands as a result. I seriously doubt bikes in 2026 we are going to have anything but an M1 motor, after all 2026 is basically their first year with other manufacturers. Maybe a refresh M1.1 or something but this is the motor Avinox wanted everyone to adopt and now they have.

 

[mrtrinh]

DJI/Avinox tried to sell their motor pre-production and no one believed what Avinox claimed their motor could do, so they had no takers. The Amflow was produced to show everyone what they were missing out on. Now they have picked up many different bike brands as a result. I seriously doubt bikes in 2026 we are going to have anything but an M1 motor, after all 2026 is basically their first year with other manufacturers. Maybe a refresh M1.1 or something but this is the motor Avinox wanted everyone to adopt and now they have.

Dont care if you call it a m1.1, m2, m3 or m1000. If they fix the rattle on the avinox system it is nearly perfect.

 

[Scott_123]

Dont care if you call it a m1.1, m2, m3 or m1000. If they fix the rattle on the avinox system it is nearly perfect.

After 360 miles on my Carbon Pro the tiny rattle is absolutely nothing. If that is messing up your riding I don’t know what to say. Try riding my Wife’s Canyon Neuron with the Bosch SX motor if you want a rattle. She doesn’t care because she has her music head set on.

 

[mrtrinh]

After 360 miles on my Carbon Pro the tiny rattle is absolutely nothing. If that is messing up your riding I don’t know what to say. Try riding my Wife’s Canyon Neuron with the Bosch SX motor if you want a rattle. She doesn’t care because she has her music head set on.

Never said it messed with my riding but im sure everyone here would prefer no rattle than a minimal or loud rattle. Not to mention im on a crestline so with vpp theirs more chain growth and potentially a louder rattle.

 

[Scott_123]

Never said it messed with my riding but im sure everyone here would prefer no rattle than a minimal or loud rattle. Not to mention im on a crestline so with vpp theirs more chain growth and potentially a louder rattle.

The main issue is Bosch, Avinox etc use multiple gears like a transmission. Over time once they bed in they will make noise when coasting over small chattering rock at speed. It’s just the nature of the beast. People say the latest Bosch is silent but once it has some miles it isn’t. The old Gen4 Bosch and the Bosch SX were really loud but they have refined it to what we see today. If you make gears which are worn in silent all you do is increase the wear factor over time. IMO there will always be some mechanical noise and manufacturers will do their best to mitigate it but they can’t eliminate it completely. Once we go to pure magnetic drives then all noise will be gone.

 

[Suns_PSD]

After 360 miles on my Carbon Pro the tiny rattle is absolutely nothing. If that is messing up your riding I don’t know what to say. Try riding my Wife’s Canyon Neuron with the Bosch SX motor if you want a rattle. She doesn’t care because she has her music head set on.

To be fair the Avinox rattle varies greatly based on bike, rear hub engagement, terrain, when produced, how worn in, your speed, your hearing, etc. So you can't assume that you're minimal rattle is the same as what everyone else is experiencing.
The Bosch disconnects the gears from the pedals so when functioning properly should never develop rattle.

 

[Scott_123]

To be fair the Avinox rattle varies greatly based on bike, hub terrain, when produced, how worn in, your speed, your hearing, etc. So you can't assume that you're minimal rattle is the same as what everyone else is experiencing.
The Bosch disconnects the gears from the pedals so when functioning properly should never develop rattle.

Agreed. When my bike had very few miles the motor was basically silent. After several hundred miles, now I can hear it over higher speed chattery sections, although it is very minimal.

 

[doochenozzle]

But what would a flagship motor even look like? It's already lighter than nearly every other full power motor, it's way more powerful and delivers the power nicely. Basically other than noise there isn't much to improve on.

That's why personally any battery improvement above 10% capacity gain and an amflow frame slightly beefed up, with replaceable batteries or a decent range extender and non-trunnion shock would be a bigger deal than anything they could realistically do to the motor.

Now in a dream world I would love to see what power they could get out of a 2kg motor, but an SL doesn't seem to be on the cards.

2027 I believe.

 

[Endorium]

Agreed. When my bike had very few miles the motor was basically silent. After several hundred miles, now I can hear it over higher speed chattery sections, although it is very minimal.

The fact it's changed, means something is worn already and thing moving that shouldn't. Next one just needs to improve on this, general reliability, and efficiency. The gen 1 avinox is one of the worst for efficiency

 

[Scott_123]

The fact it's changed, means something is worn already and thing moving that shouldn't. Next one just needs to improve on this, general reliability, and efficiency. The gen 1 avinox is one of the worst for efficiency

Being a retired mechanic, we like to see gears bed in, it is normal and expected. Without this, gears and bearing will always run hot due to stress. I think it is perfectly normal for a new Avinox motor to be completely quiet and once it is broken in the gears now have a slightly larger tolerance than when new, hence some play. Whether the gears are hardened steel or composite material they initially have to mesh with each other which is normal wear.

Engineers may find a way to keep them quiet as they wear but the solution can’t be something that artificially shortens the life of the gears by applying pressure to keep them from making noise when not under load.