🔋 Semi-Solid-State batteries revolution!


Debunked.

And here's another debunking video.


No actual batteries only mock up shells, and only going for two wheeled electrical storage...a massive scam, if you see Donut batteries and want to invest, run. The big money is in grid storage and EVs, not two wheeled transport....think about it..a nine man (one engineer) outfit with a dodgy Director has created something Tesla and China can't do, with millions possibly billions of PEDs (pounds, Euro's, Dollars) can't do. ..,,....,hmmmmm.
 
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Biano44 said:
I've just watched this, I'm no expert on body language but the guy Rich is speaking to, does not come across as someone who is full of BS! This might be real.
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I don't base my opinion on one person's body language, because they may simply have someone who is exceptional at using body language to further deception. I base my opinion on whether the claims make sense. Using simple logic.

I have no hard evidence the battery is currently impossible, or that it will not meet all the claims, but I can tell you the chances of it doing so are so miniscule as to not warrant more digging. It has fraud and deception written all over it in bright pink ink.
 
RustyMTB said:
They're a privately owned Finnish company with no traded stock, all of which is one search away. Dear lord above, will no one save us from incurious, opinionated Americans?
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Are you saying you believe the battery claims of Donut? :eek:

Since you apparently have a lot of curiosity, maybe you could explain to us why you think this is real?
 
(IIRC) Verge motorcycles with Donut batteries are due to come to market in 2026 Q1 (Q2?)

- If they do then the batteries will be rapidly torn down and analysed, and the truth will be revealed.

- If they do not then it will be prima facie evidence of fraud.

As Max Ehrman said: "no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should."
 
irie said:
(IIRC) Verge motorcycles with Donut batteries are due to come to market in 2026 Q1 (Q2?)

- If they do then the batteries will be rapidly torn down and analysed, and the truth will be revealed.

- If they do not then it will be prima facie evidence of fraud.

As Max Ehrman said: "no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should."
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It's not that simple. Evidence of fraud does not prove fraud. Fraud cannot be proven simply by the failure to deliver what was anticipated. The company stating they plan to bring it to market shortly is a forward looking statement. They can decide for other reasons not to deliver. Yes, I would take that as strong evidence of fraud (as you have indicated) but it would fall short of proving fraud.

That said, I'm already assuming this is likely fraud. The failure to deliver would not change much in my mind. The one spec I haven't seen disclosed is how much self-discharge these batteries have. What if all the specs turn out to be true, but the battery self-discharges in a few hours? i don't think that's likely, but it is an example of one more potential scenario.
 
MountainBoy said:
... What if all the specs turn out to be true, but the battery self-discharges in a few hours? i don't think that's likely, but it is an example of one more potential scenario.
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Well if it's both super capacitor and SS battery, then this could very well be the case. SCs charge and dump charge fast, but holding a charge is a different story.
 
MountainBoy said:
Are you saying you believe the battery claims of Donut? :eek:

Since you apparently have a lot of curiosity, maybe you could explain to us why you think this is real?
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Curiosity is one thing, comprehension evidently is another. Stating factual information on the constitution of a business is not the same thing as accepting any claims that company makes. This makes you the second good ole boy in a row now I've encountered in here who is incapable of processing basic information.

And us? Who exactly do you speak on behalf of, Cletus?
 
Zimmerframe said:
Careful, mikerb will be chastising y🍩u and giving y🍩u a lecture 🍩n the merits 🍩f pr🍩🍩f reading all y🍩ur p🍩sts f🍩r f🍩ur h🍩urs bef🍩re p🍩sting.
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Loving the donuts. If you have any spare ones give them to @MountainBoy who needs them.
rotfl5.gif
 
RustyMTB said:
And us? Who exactly do you speak on behalf of, Cletus?
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Ignoring the personal insults, when I ask you to "explain to us why you think (the specs) are real", I'm of course referring to all of us forum participants who can process information and are not fooled by the claims. In other words, those of us who don't think this company might be above board.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you believe every word as gospel, but it's hard to deny that you come across as someone who thinks all the specs might be true.
 
Since I made no claim to the specs one way or the other, Your claims are a weird revisionist irrelevance. You appear intent on arguing a point that was never made.

God loves a tryer, me, less so my little argumentum ad populum cracker. This is the second time you've attempted to engage me in your merry go round trolling. There won't be a third. You have a good day now, pendejo.
 
RustyMTB said:
They're a privately owned Finnish company with no traded stock, all of which is one search away. Dear lord above, will no one save us from incurious, opinionated Americans?
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OK, so Donut has no publicly traded stock (yet). I agree. Do you have expertise in this area? What do you think the relevance of having no publicly traded stock is (relative to the battery specs they have claimed)?

I ask, because there are many ways to extract excessive value from a company having no great prospects and going public is not required to extract excessive value. Deception works in private markets too. In fact, going public is particularly troublesome for companies wanting to over-hype what they have to offer. Public companies have much greater scrutiny and oversight compared to a company who simply wants new private investors who have enough assets to be considered "qualified investors".

Or, maybe I missed your point about the company being private. What was it?
 
My two cents...

If I may say, I generally stick to facts (for example, seeing a certain product gain traction in the market, but also in this case with caution) or to primary sources such as scientific publications. YouTube videos and similar channels are often just marketing, and I really encourage people to approach them with skepticism.

Of course, this doesn’t mean don't watching them (actually, they are very interesting sometime, like in this case!) or saying in advance that this product will not work, or that it will soon become widely accessible. I don’t know that, and nobody here (and in some sense even among Nobel Prizes in Economy or Chemistry) does, because very complex and unpredictable factors come into play: economic conditions, market choices, the behavior of major companies, and so on. Even predicting cost after large scale manufacturing is barely impossible. Sometime little improvements can suddenly change the whole field and make something very expensive become incredibly cheap.

I am no expert, but as a professional scientist I followed the battery sector for work (I also deal with environmental sustainability) for a long time, and I’m well aware that out of ten technological “novelties” and supposed market revolutions in the field, barely one actually materializes, though that one can sometimes be highly disruptive, like lithium-ion batteries.

Which one? Yes, maybe solid state batteries. But I cannot be sure.
 
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Just read some comments on YouTube relating to Donut Labs......obviously proves nothing but fascinating to read and find out all this stuff.

"Bela Dhananjay Bhuskute's, chief scientist at Nordic Nano credentials are legitimate. And this is not a battery, It appears to be a screen printed "Electrostatic Bipolar Capacitor" storage system. From what I've seen, they have every right to be ultra secretive. Nordic Nano's production process is significantly less demanding than traditional battery manufacturing. Theoretically, this is much simpler to make that what Quantumscape and others are doing, requiring no clean room and other steps. They really need to get their intellectual property airtight before they reveal anything of substance. And really, all the controversy and doubt they are facing right now might really help them in the long term. Sometimes press is press, even if it's negative."

"I am glad you included some of the facts I gave you. So to be clear: billionaire Risto Siilasmaa is one of the backers of Donut Lab. He is the former Chairman of Nokia and founder of F-Secure. Also Formula 1 legend Mika Häkkinen is a part of the company."
 
pagheca said:
the failure of one technology doesn’t automatically mean others won’t succeed. The real issue is that a battery with the performance being claimed would be a genuine game-changer, but to be commercially viable it needs to excel in three key dimensions: (1) energy density, (2) charging speed, and (3) cycle life. Many experts say you can usually optimize two of these, but not all three at once — and that’s before even considering safety, cost, and other constraints.

So, I’ll start believing the hype when someone can actually demonstrate strong results across at least these three fronts.
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That example wasn't a commentary on the viability of other battery tech. It was simply a commentary on the rampant marketing garbage that is now grabbing hold of the term "solid state".
They have started applying the term "semi solid state" and "solid state" to what are otherwise traditional lithium batteries already, it won't be long before we have a solid state car wax, lol.
 
The energy density is indeed very impressive, thanks for the link. (y)

From "Conclusions" in the paper" ....

Currently, efforts are underway to extend this proof of concept to other platforms and develop supercapacitors as versatile electrical energy storage devices.
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... and this looks vaguely familiar.

Screenshot_20260113_075739_Chrome~2.jpg
 
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Tooks said:
Not sure why a thread about solid state batteries in e-bikes has become so dominated by anti EV sentiment though, a genuine puzzler.
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It is confusing until it's understood that some people are actually threatened by electric vehicles. Some have actual fear of this kind of change. I've seen it repeatedly, they lash out at anything that portrays anything positive about cars powered purely by electricity.

Apparently these same people are typically OK with hybrids, probably because they understand they are basically still gasoline powered cars.
 
MountainBoy said:
It is confusing until it's understood that some people are actually threatened by electric vehicles. Some have actual fear of this kind of change. I've seen it repeatedly, they lash out at anything that portrays anything positive about cars powered purely by electricity.

Apparently these same people are typically OK with hybrids, probably because they understand they are basically still gasoline powered cars.
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Yah, it got pretty crazy for a while a few years back with deleted diesel trucks blocking all of the charging slots and the like. What terrible behavior; imagine your wife and kids trying to get home before dark and some Ahole doing that?

The CT might be the first vehicle hated by the right being an EV, and the left for being so obnoxious and Musk-like. Tough place to be I suppose.

It's just a car people, relax.
 

apparently producing these solid state batteries is not more expensive for them than acquiring the highend 21700 cells they used before
 
Amber Valley Guy said:

Debunked.

And here's another debunking video.


No actual batteries only mock up shells, and only going for two wheeled electrical storage...a massive scam, if you see Donut batteries and want to invest, run. The big money is in grid storage and EVs, not two wheeled transport....think about it..a nine man (one engineer) outfit with a dodgy Director has created something Tesla and China can't do, with millions possibly billions of PEDs (pounds, Euro's, Dollars) can't do. ..,,....,hmmmmm.
Click to expand...
Do you think a Youtuber speculating is a debunk? Debunking would be something like a physics/chemistry reason why these can't exist. These Youtubers have no more credibility than the initial announcement. In fact, I'd say they have less, since they have zero information beyond what the rest of us have. It's possible Donut's battery is real, but it's a fact that these people are just speculating.
 
Lol, the Electric viking, one of those yt channels that adds nothing new and just re words other peoples/companies info.

re donut lab SS battery, my skepticism is making way for some optimism.....
Long vid but worth the full watch.
 
A solid state battery was initially described as having a Li-metal anode and solid electrolyte. It was imagined reaching a gravimetric energy density of 800 Wh/kg or more. I can see no indication of Donut having built what we initially understood as a solid state battery. The density seems to low. Also, based on the dendrite build-up issue of the Li-metal anode, the cycle-life seems too high, even if the issue is solved. I don't believe they've solved the Li-metal anode.

But it seems the solid state definition has changed. An NMC battery could be built with a solid electrolyte. It wouldn't improve the energy density much, and we'd call it a semi solid-state cell. But it seems everything with a solid electrolyte can be called solid-state these days. Being able to mass produce an ss-battery gives much publicity, even if the solid state definition has been watered down.

The hybrid supercapacitor idea and the sciencedirect article is interesting. The combination of energydensity and powerdensity claimed by Donut is much higher than anything shown publicly so far. It would be cool if this is real. But such claims usually turn out to be exaggerated when the final product appears. Could it be they're just listing theoretical limits of their technology that can't actually be acheived in combination? Is this just the data for the chemistry, and the densities are lower on cell level? Hoping it's real though.
 
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