Forbidden Druid - Avinox Powered
- Thread starter jbrown15
- Start date
Basically some ppl tend and want to ride their ebikes shut off as well with as little resistance in the motor and drivetrain as possible. I came from a Giant Reign E+ which had some drag in the motor. Rest of the added effort pedaling up was certainly the high weight of 27kg+ with ultrasoft tires. Still, the Druid Core does take quite some added effort over the Giant to get this beast up the hill without motor support to the point that is feels ridiculous.
I have a powermeter on my chinesium gravelbike and one on my druidv2 pedal bike and if the numbers I see on the avinox display are correct regarding rider power input, the numbers surely are really high. If it gets a little warmer outside I really want to compare numbers, but I have seen wattage numbers above 200W on the druid on average when riding with no support on a hard pack fireroad with almost no slope (display says 0%) to keep 10-12km/h... I sure weigh a little bit more (95-97kg) and the bike as well (23.x kg). Still I run the same tires on both the Druid Core and the Druid V2 and at comparable speeds on the same road the druidv2 powermeter shows a lot less.
Even ppl in my riding group who tend to right their shimano ep8 powered bikes shutoff when pedalbikers are with us clearly feel a massive difference. So where does it come from? The motor seems to have around 15W of drag measured by some youtuber.. I am not sure if the idler even pinched when torqued correctly could add more than that.
On my v2 Druid Forbidden uses one 6902 Max BOSL bearing which is a bit smaller than the 6903 Max BOSL on the core, which has 2 of them. The Idler on the V2 Druid does not nearly spin as hard and I hardly notice any drag when riding as well. I have beaten all of my uphill PRs with the v2 druid that I had set on the v1 dreadnought (with comparable weight and tires). And on the dread they use a standard abec5 bearing which should rotate a lot easier.
Long story short or TLDR.. I am although thinking about trying different bearings, even if they have to be changed more often. But if the seating is the problem.... well...
I have a powermeter on my chinesium gravelbike and one on my druidv2 pedal bike and if the numbers I see on the avinox display are correct regarding rider power input, the numbers surely are really high. If it gets a little warmer outside I really want to compare numbers, but I have seen wattage numbers above 200W on the druid on average when riding with no support on a hard pack fireroad with almost no slope (display says 0%) to keep 10-12km/h... I sure weigh a little bit more (95-97kg) and the bike as well (23.x kg). Still I run the same tires on both the Druid Core and the Druid V2 and at comparable speeds on the same road the druidv2 powermeter shows a lot less.
Even ppl in my riding group who tend to right their shimano ep8 powered bikes shutoff when pedalbikers are with us clearly feel a massive difference. So where does it come from? The motor seems to have around 15W of drag measured by some youtuber.. I am not sure if the idler even pinched when torqued correctly could add more than that.
On my v2 Druid Forbidden uses one 6902 Max BOSL bearing which is a bit smaller than the 6903 Max BOSL on the core, which has 2 of them. The Idler on the V2 Druid does not nearly spin as hard and I hardly notice any drag when riding as well. I have beaten all of my uphill PRs with the v2 druid that I had set on the v1 dreadnought (with comparable weight and tires). And on the dread they use a standard abec5 bearing which should rotate a lot easier.
Long story short or TLDR.. I am although thinking about trying different bearings, even if they have to be changed more often. But if the seating is the problem.... well...
andreaverona
New Member
Idler is most of the drag problem
sethimus
😠 Donald Duck 😠
because it is?
How do you find the e druid compares to your normal on ride performance? i got the current druid and its outstanding. one the best bikes i have ridden.
The e druid is more capable for sure. Don't know about the LitE, but the core definitely is. It is not as poppy and agile (weight difference can not be neglected as the my s4 druidv2 weighs roughly 15kg, the core 23.2kg). But it is poppy and feels agile enough for my liking and it still eats up chunk well enough. I run the core with a 170mm fork though and the DruidV2 with a cascade long stroke link with 138mm instead of the 130 plus a 160mm fork.
I still have a dreadnought v1 from 2021 and capabilitywise the core sits right between both, tending more to dreadnought side, while still feeling poppy where the old v1 dread felt rather dead but can plow through stuff like crazy.
I am more than happy with the core. It definitely shares the characteristics and DNA of forbidden bikes even with a different kind of suspension layout.
I still have a dreadnought v1 from 2021 and capabilitywise the core sits right between both, tending more to dreadnought side, while still feeling poppy where the old v1 dread felt rather dead but can plow through stuff like crazy.
I am more than happy with the core. It definitely shares the characteristics and DNA of forbidden bikes even with a different kind of suspension layout.
No it isn’t.
It’s the motor. You have to move the planetary gears, all the internal cogs and stuff inside. Put the bike on a stand, take the chain off and try to move the cranks, you’ll see. What I don’t get is the point of the discussion, why someone would want to pedal an e-bike with the motor off?
I had enough occasions where I needed to pedal some easier segments with little to no motor support to preserve battery to get the ride done when you have no way to recharge in between at some point. That might not be an issue for most ppl. In most of my ebike group rides ppl weigh a lot less 20-25kgs with comparable sized batteries. It should not be so hard to calculate, that I wont be getting to the end with battery left if they get their battery drained as well 
So in some cases I do need to preserve battery, which on the druid is indeed harder to achieve because the needed rider input is not only subjectively higher but can be seen on the display as well.
And as I said, I get it, that for most people this is no issue at all. In all of my recent rides it wasn't one as well. For the most part you are soaked in mud after a couple of hours already. For long summer pedal days that might be different.
So in some cases I do need to preserve battery, which on the druid is indeed harder to achieve because the needed rider input is not only subjectively higher but can be seen on the display as well.And as I said, I get it, that for most people this is no issue at all. In all of my recent rides it wasn't one as well. For the most part you are soaked in mud after a couple of hours already. For long summer pedal days that might be different.
kimochi
Member
hey, did I read this right, you move from KSL to a druid? from long travel to short travel? that's kinda counterintuitive, so I'm curious what made you pick the druid lite above all else (not even CorE)?
jcmonty
E*POWAH Master
TL;DR - I was getting over the KSL being overkill for most (75% or so) of my riding and wanted something more balanced
Longer version:
I have gone back back and forth from Long travel EMTB to mid-ish over the past 7 or so years. Started with the OG 180/180 Kenevo, which was heavy and old school geo, but was pretty darn fun and the plushest bike I have ever ridden (until you bottomed it out lol). Moved to a Levo SL, which I ended up creeping up the travel to make it an enduro-y bike (170mm fork and cascade link + coil), and then got the KSL when that dropped a year later and rode for the past 4 years prior the the eDruid.
When I started to get the itch again for a new bike, I was really aiming for something more "fun" overall. The KSL is a great bike, and it can be a "do it all", but I really found that it wanted steep trails to open up. At least in the geo config that I had it, it took a lot of effort to manual, jump, etc (yeah.. my technique can use all the help it can get), and I rarely used all the travel in a ride.
The Forbidden stuff has always caught my eye with the more modern take on geo (high stack and long CS) being something that I wanted to try, and the high pivot seemed to get rave reviews on balancing "short" travel fun with longer travel capability. I ride with lots of square edge, and the high pivot always appealed to me for those situations. Couple with the DJI motor, and I was sold. I had looked at the Amflow, but wasn't thrilled with basically getting another Levo SL albeit with more power.
The Lite vs. Core decision was more flip of the coin as to what I could find to pre-order in t he first wave. I liked the idea of a 600wh battery because I rarely get more than 2 hr in a ride. I knew that I would probably play around with suspension as well, and it seemed more logical to go up in travel to a Core vs backwards like Lite. I am in love with the bike, and with my current 160/140 (soon to be 150), it's more confidence inspiring pretty much everywhere than the KSL except the steepest and roughest tracks (probably more me not being in my peak bike confidence era than the bike). I have the KSL as a loaner and backup because it's not worth selling for me, and it's still a darn good bike that I might tweak a bit to get closer in geo feel to the Lite.
Probably more than you wanted to know
jcmonty
E*POWAH Master
Yeah, this bike is noticeably harder to pedal than my SLs with motor off. I attributed a bit to the high pivot, but it's the motor too. I would almost it equate needing to be in a gear or maybe two below what I would with the SL bike to have an equivalent power to ground ratio.I had enough occasions where I needed to pedal some easier segments with little to no motor support to preserve battery to get the ride done when you have no way to recharge in between at some point. That might not be an issue for most ppl. In most of my ebike group rides ppl weigh a lot less 20-25kgs with comparable sized batteries. It should not be so hard to calculate, that I wont be getting to the end with battery left if they get their battery drained as well
And as I said, I get it, that for most people this is no issue at all. In all of my recent rides it wasn't one as well. For the most part you are soaked in mud after a couple of hours already. For long summer pedal days that might be different.
slickrock
Well-known member
Let's hope the M2 is better in this department. Motors that completely disengage when off are nice, but tend to not be in the full power category save for like the Maxon Air.
kimochi
Member
no, thanks for the longer version. I haven't really checked on druid lite vs core, but is it just the stroke that is different? 210x50 vs 210x55, and fork obviously, but does that mean you just need a 210x55 and you basically have a core?TL;DR - I was getting over the KSL being overkill for most (75% or so) of my riding and wanted something more balanced
Longer version:
I have gone back back and forth from Long travel EMTB to mid-ish over the past 7 or so years. Started with the OG 180/180 Kenevo, which was heavy and old school geo, but was pretty darn fun and the plushest bike I have ever ridden (until you bottomed it out lol). Moved to a Levo SL, which I ended up creeping up the travel to make it an enduro-y bike (170mm fork and cascade link + coil), and then got the KSL when that dropped a year later and rode for the past 4 years prior the the eDruid.
When I started to get the itch again for a new bike, I was really aiming for something more "fun" overall. The KSL is a great bike, and it can be a "do it all", but I really found that it wanted steep trails to open up. At least in the geo config that I had it, it took a lot of effort to manual, jump, etc (yeah.. my technique can use all the help it can get), and I rarely used all the travel in a ride.
The Forbidden stuff has always caught my eye with the more modern take on geo (high stack and long CS) being something that I wanted to try, and the high pivot seemed to get rave reviews on balancing "short" travel fun with longer travel capability. I ride with lots of square edge, and the high pivot always appealed to me for those situations. Couple with the DJI motor, and I was sold. I had looked at the Amflow, but wasn't thrilled with basically getting another Levo SL albeit with more power.
The Lite vs. Core decision was more flip of the coin as to what I could find to pre-order in t he first wave. I liked the idea of a 600wh battery because I rarely get more than 2 hr in a ride. I knew that I would probably play around with suspension as well, and it seemed more logical to go up in travel to a Core vs backwards like Lite. I am in love with the bike, and with my current 160/140 (soon to be 150), it's more confidence inspiring pretty much everywhere than the KSL except the steepest and roughest tracks (probably more me not being in my peak bike confidence era than the bike). I have the KSL as a loaner and backup because it's not worth selling for me, and it's still a darn good bike that I might tweak a bit to get closer in geo feel to the Lite.
Probably more than you wanted to know
Yes
Highland Wheels
Well-known member
No issues here, 240 one up slammed.
Might be your cables are getting bound up or caught on a motor/battery cable.
Might be your cables are getting bound up or caught on a motor/battery cable.
Drop the dropper all the way Down and remove the front bolt from the motor, pivot the motor and check directly what’s happening. Is very easy and safe. What size is your bike? In my case the maximum drop is 275 mm (S2). If I try to pass that mark the dropper doesn’t work properly.
I have an S3 and will try that
sethimus
😠 Donald Duck 😠
new downcountry bike
the one without the motor pedals like a dream! i know the avinox motor can be draggy though. (when off)
pretty sure its just a new edit from a rider
sethimus
😠 Donald Duck 😠
@Moderator that non motor bike WAS relevant to those posts, learn to follow a discussion and consider the CONTEXT in what was posted. thx
hint: companies STILL release non motorized bikes, the one posted the picture above is pretty much the one i posted…
Last edited:
andreaverona
New Member
sethimus
😠 Donald Duck 😠
Anyone got this speed sensor mount from Forbidden? What should I expect on when I will receive this? Am I supposed to contact Forbidden?
I had not heard of any issues with the original sensor what is the reason for this new one? I can only presume that there must be a problemAnyone got this speed sensor mount from Forbidden? What should I expect on when I will receive this? Am I supposed to contact Forbidden?
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