Tell me more about Free Shift. I'm on a business trip for a month and can't try everything
Shimano XT Di2 12 speed
a
- Thread starter HandsomeDanNZ
- Start date
Joecrow
Active member
With the correct power adaptor cable the new Shimano derailleurs should be hardware compaitible with any Bosch Smart System bike, so Gen. 4 and 5 motors, The new Flow app update (ver 1.30) should then provide support for E-shift functionality.
Hi, thanks very much for this. This is the same as I was thinking, but I saw a comment in a YouTube video where a guy asks if Gen 4 is compatible with the new XT Di2 and the answer came back as “no”. Even tho my Gen 4 e-bike runs on the smart system.
Joecrow
Active member
Play Store offered me an update for the Flow app. on my mobile this morning and now at ver. 1.30 then updated the bike on connecting to it a short while ago. Alll looking good
. Now just need to find enough cash to buy the Di2 set up.
. Now just need to find enough cash to buy the Di2 set up.Thanks Joecrow, what gen motor have you got please?Play Store offered me an update for the Flow app. on my mobile this morning and now at ver. 1.30 then updated the bike on connecting to it a short while ago. Alll looking good
Joecrow
Active member
I am planning on fitting a XT Di2 set up on my Gen 5 bike to replace a Wheel Top, (battery and purely manual shifting) E-derailleur which I installed some while ago, its still working great but it got me hooked on electronic shifting and I want more features!
I have also sucessfully installed the ver. 1.30 bike part of the update on my wife's late 2023 Gen 4 bike, no E-shift plans for her bike as she is not a gadget fan like me and is happy with a cable shifter!
Understood, thanks for the clarity. I have also updated the software on both my Gen 4 bike and the flow app today. Hopefully somebody will try to install it on a Gen 4 on YouTube soon. I have also written to Bosch to see what they have to say about it.
Joecrow
Active member
It would be good to know the definitive answer, please let us know what they say.
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So, this is the reply I got from Bosch. I don't think it helps us at all. What do you guys make of the reply?
Very important - even though the eShift may be compatible, it is not meant to be retrofitted to the Bosch system. This is because you would require completely different software from the e-bike manufacturer for the eShift to work with the Bosch system. Otherwise the drive unit will not be able to work with the Shimano system. You will get error codes and the values will not be processed.
You can of course reach out to the e-bike manufacturer to ask about the software however this is not standard practice and we unfortunately are not able to advise on this procedure further.
I don't quite understand what the e-bike manufacturer has to do with this. After all, the manufacturer only provides the frame and components; the rest is Bosch and Shimano. It's a complete lie. Bosch's answers are always general, without specifics. You just have to try it. Maybe a local store has Shimano in stock and you can ask them to connect it to your bike. If it works, then buy it from them directly. Just make sure to activate the HPP port first.
Please bare in mind that the reply from Bosch was specific to the Ten 4 motor.
Bosch say its not compatible.
A specialist YouTuber has said its not compatible.
Nobody has managed to fit it yet.
That's enough for me to back away from the M8260 kit for my bike. However, what I am now planning to do is convert my 11 speed Linkglide to a 12 speed hyperglide. I will need a new chain, cassette, free hub. That then means I can fit the M8250 12 to my bike. No running cables, no plugging into the motor, it should be an easier fit. All I ever wanted was the electronic gear changes, I was never interested in some of the other software features you get from the ebike kit. You then connect the kit to the shimano app for fine tuning. Essentially the bike would not even know it is fitted.
Anybody see any issues with the was I plan to proceed please?
Bosch say its not compatible.
A specialist YouTuber has said its not compatible.
Nobody has managed to fit it yet.
That's enough for me to back away from the M8260 kit for my bike. However, what I am now planning to do is convert my 11 speed Linkglide to a 12 speed hyperglide. I will need a new chain, cassette, free hub. That then means I can fit the M8250 12 to my bike. No running cables, no plugging into the motor, it should be an easier fit. All I ever wanted was the electronic gear changes, I was never interested in some of the other software features you get from the ebike kit. You then connect the kit to the shimano app for fine tuning. Essentially the bike would not even know it is fitted.
Anybody see any issues with the was I plan to proceed please?
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I agree. I have been getting some vague answers from them. I have the HPP already enabled as I am using it to feed another accessory, which would require a rethink if I did proceed with the M8260 (which I am not going to do)
Shimano Free Shift : When coasting the transmission will shift to a lower gear as you slow down, without you doing anything.
Shimano Coast Shift : If you manually shift whilst coasting, the motor will spool, pulling the chain onto the new gear, without you pedalling.
Shimano Auto Shift : The transmission will shift gears, both up and down, anytime the cadence and pedalling torque is within programmed parameters. So this means whether you are pedalling or not.
What I mean is that the manufacturers seem to be able to choose the features that get enabled in the firmware.
For instance, some cargo e-bikes with Gen 5 motors that use internal gesring hubs (like enviolo) got the upgrade, but not the torque increase because those hubs cannot handle it.
Basically the manufacturer has to approve that the feature is activated in that precise bike model.
Joecrow
Active member
Oh, that's worrying, even if there were no real hardware compatibility issues when an updated configuration is required that would be a show stopper for me, I have yet to find an LBS that is able and willing to do a config. change ( my wife's Gen 4 and our PowerMore range extender still does not work together)! I will contact Haibike and let you know what they say.
On the other hand it is encouraging that so far those who have fitted the Di2 derailleurs have not reported any of problems of the kind mooted by Bosch. @Eifice do you remember if the E-Shift category was shown in the Flow app. under components before you actually plugged in the derailleur? I is not shown in mine after the update, but without any hardware.
That would be the risk free solution but I dread to think how much the LBS's round here would markup the hardware and charge for fitting even if you could trust them to to do a good job which you can't.
My LBS did a few "Config Change Requests" for me and from what they were saying it was quite simple to do. That's how I managed to get the PowerMore 250 to work on my bike.
Regarding those that are managing to get the Di2 working on their ebikes, I can only assume they have Gen 5 motors.
I haven't seen a single you tube video of the M8260 being fitted to a bike yet. Plenty for the M8250 though.
I am hoping that given time, there will be lots of info on this as people start to buy and understand more about it.
Joecrow
Active member
I have asked Haibike with respect to my Gen 5, if they say its OK I will then reply and ask what about my wife's Gen 4?
Count yourself lucky but yes from what Bosch and Haibike have said it seems quite straight forward but the bigger and most likely more compentent shops round here only seem to want to do repairs or other non service only type work on bikes they actually sold. The smaller shops are more helpfull but don't seem to have the competence or knowledge for anything out of the ordinary.
Hi. No, before installing the Shimano Di2 XT, it wasn't displayed in the Flow app. I think it's built into all bikes; it's unlikely Bosch makes a separate firmware update for every bike model. It seems to me that Bosch simply doesn't want to take any risks, and besides, they don't get any profit from it. Shimano should be the one worrying about marketing, but unfortunately, they don't care. I still haven't found a single video showing how the automatic functions on the new generation Di2 actually work. The marketing people at Bosch and Shimano just don't want to work.Oh, that's worrying, even if there were no real hardware compatibility issues when an updated configuration is required that would be a show stopper for me, I have yet to find an LBS that is able and willing to do a config. change ( my wife's Gen 4 and our PowerMore range extender still does not work together)! I will contact Haibike and let you know what they say.
On the other hand it is encouraging that so far those who have fitted the Di2 derailleurs have not reported any of problems of the kind mooted by Bosch. @Eifice do you remember if the E-Shift category was shown in the Flow app. under components before you actually plugged in the derailleur? I is not shown in mine after the update, but without any hardware.
That would be the risk free solution but I dread to think how much the LBS's round here would markup the hardware and charge for fitting even if you could trust them to to do a good job which you can't.
Joecrow
Active member
Thanks for that
and yes Bosch I'm sure don't have different updates for every model but the bike manufactures do have a say in that with respect to to the configuation they provide with each model. If a new option requires an update or enabling of/in the configuration the hardware wont work without it, as I mentioned with my Wife's Gen 4 "Not PowerMore Ready". Though having said that I would be very surprised if that was the case with this update, I can't believe any of the manufactures would have any justification to not support E-Shift, unlike the PowerMore where there were concerns over whether the battery could be mounted safely in every models water bottle holder fixings.Agreed, they can't commit on retrofit without confirming/testing it will work on every bike model but that certainly does not mean it won't, at least I hope so.
I'm sure the situation will become clearer as more information becomes available and agree with you also that it is strange that Shimao don't seem to be be promoting the retrofit market!
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Joecrow
Active member
I have only had a quick look at the EBike24 vid in the link below but it looks very useful, interested to know what others think.
They have also published a vid in the artical linked below on the ver. 1.30 update and there state that it does support E-shift Shimano Di2 on Smart System bikes, no mention of Gen 4 or 5!
Bosch eBike Flow App Update 1.30 improves navigation
They have also published a vid in the artical linked below on the ver. 1.30 update and there state that it does support E-shift Shimano Di2 on Smart System bikes, no mention of Gen 4 or 5!
Bosch eBike Flow App Update 1.30 improves navigation
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Joecrow
Active member
In response to my question on installing a Di2 Deraillleur, Haibike said they do allow it, which I guess means their piece of the configuration does not block it but they will not commit to say it will work as it is untested.
For me that's a green light, back to saving up the pennies.
For me that's a green light, back to saving up the pennies.
Joecrow
Active member
That is really helpful, thanks. Hopefully they will release an English version for the majority here, and even me on some things.
@nashdm2 as I understood it in the vid they say it will work with Gen 4 and the demo bike is an early 2022 Smart System Gen 4 as long as you can match your cassette etc. with one or other of the derailleur sets.
So, I think I will still wait for a little bit more info before proceeding with the M8260. I have decided not to fit the M8250 as its just too much grief.
I have a theory here, so, let me know what you think of this given that Bosch have told me its not compatible with my Gen 4.
I have no HPP/LPP's left, so, I was always going to use it with an external 12v supply. So, what if i fit the stuff, but, don't add it as an additional component to the flow app. I can still use the Shimano app and connect it there. Then wire it to my external 12v. Technically, the bike won't know it is fitted. The cable itself I think is a two wire only as it gets its data wirelessly from the Flow app (I think this is the case, yet to be proved). I know I will miss out on some of the additional features available but all I want is the electronic gear change anyway.
What do you guys think?
I have a theory here, so, let me know what you think of this given that Bosch have told me its not compatible with my Gen 4.
I have no HPP/LPP's left, so, I was always going to use it with an external 12v supply. So, what if i fit the stuff, but, don't add it as an additional component to the flow app. I can still use the Shimano app and connect it there. Then wire it to my external 12v. Technically, the bike won't know it is fitted. The cable itself I think is a two wire only as it gets its data wirelessly from the Flow app (I think this is the case, yet to be proved). I know I will miss out on some of the additional features available but all I want is the electronic gear change anyway.
What do you guys think?
Joecrow
Active member
Oh, given you have no *PP left and the uncertainty if anything goes down the cable other than power I think you are right to hang on for a while. Mabe consider a different solution if all you need is an electronic gear change, what about one from Wheel Top Europe their prices are not bad and the latest version is powered by a fixed recharcable battery though other models with removable rechargable batteries are still available over AliExpress. I have been very well pleased with the one I have from Wheel Top but now Bosch have expanded their E-shift to include Shimano I want more.
I have been exchanging messages with the guy who did the video above. He has confirmed that the bike he fitted it to was a 2022 Gen 4 as @Joecrow has mentioned above. My bike is a 2022 Gen 4. I have also asked him if the wire is 2 or 4 wires and he has yet to answer. Also, there is a great exchange of information in the comments section below the video.
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