Full Power to Lightweight - Bosch 800Wh replaced with 400WH compact

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neiloxford

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Does anyone know a way of using a Bosch Compact 400wh in a Full Fat Gen 5 ebike ?

Hoping to use a 400wh for shorter local rides, and reduce the bike weight by 2kg.

There used to be an extension for 500 to 625 for example.
 
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neiloxford said:
Does anyone know a way of using a Bosch Compact 400wh in a Full Fat Gen 5 ebike ?

Hoping to use a 400wh for shorter local rides, and reduce the bike weight by 2kg.

There used to be an extension for 500 to 625 for example.
Click to expand...
Possibly not.
The 500 and 625 are the old Gen 2/4 system and the Gen 5 is the smart system.
Not compatible with each other ☹️
Edit
Next time I will try to read the question properly 🤔
 
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neiloxford said:
Does anyone know a way of using a Bosch Compact 400wh in a Full Fat Gen 5 ebike ?

Hoping to use a 400wh for shorter local rides, and reduce the bike weight by 2kg.

There used to be an extension for 500 to 625 for example.
Click to expand...
Bosch makes a 400, 600 and a 800wh battery for the Gen 5 motor, but you need extension mounts when going from 800 to 400. I think a few guys on the Crestline thread have been running the Bosch Gen5 like this.
 
I have contacted Bosch and Crestline to see what is available. If they do not have a extension, I am hoping someone can 3d print one and sell it for a reasonable price.
 
You could use the Bosch PowerMore range extender, it does work stand alone. It is only 250W and when the main battery is not present apparrently the power available it limited to 80%, I believe, of normal. I bought one for short round town trips in winter since it is easy to install and remove and as my bike is parked in the open I store all batteries indoors in winter.
 
Joecrow said:
You could use the Bosch PowerMore range extender, it does work stand alone. It is only 250W and when the main battery is not present apparrently the power available it limited to 80%, I believe, of normal. I bought one for short round town trips in winter since it is easy to install and remove and as my bike is parked in the open I store all batteries indoors in winter.
Click to expand...
Did it require having the manufacturer enable firmware to allow the battery feature? Below is a discussion on the parameter:

1755444236424.png
 
Ndanger said:
Did it require having the manufacturer enable firmware to allow the battery feature? Below is a discussion on the parameter:
Click to expand...
No, on my Gen 5 Haibike it was already enabled (plugged it in and was straight away there) but I am still trying to find a LBS that is clued up enough to get a new config from the manufacturer (all OK with them) for the Gen 4 Smart System bike I have so I can also use it on that. No luck so far, they seem to be as rare as rocking horse sh** round here!:(
 
neiloxford said:
I have contacted Bosch and Crestline to see what is available. If they do not have a extension, I am hoping someone can 3d print one and sell it for a reasonable price.
Click to expand...
This is for the older 750>625 and 750>500 smart system batteries. So hopefully visionvelo make some for the newer 800>600 etc

visionvelo.eu

Bosch PowerTube Adapter - 500/625Wh to 750Wh - VisionVelo

Use a PowerTube 500Wh/625Wh in a 750Wh Bosch Smart System frame. Save 1.2kg instantly with our precision-fit adapter. Shop now and drop weight!
visionvelo.eu visionvelo.eu
 
Bosch replied saying that the 400wh battery is not designed for the CX motor, so they do not offer an adaptor to use the 400wh battery in a full fat Gen 5 ebike.
 
neiloxford said:
Bosch replied saying that the 400wh battery is not designed for the CX motor, so they do not offer an adaptor to use the 400wh battery in a full fat Gen 5 ebike.
Click to expand...
Too bad, it was a good conversion idea. There’s still the 600 battery that can be installed, but with less weight savings and at a higher cost
 
neiloxford said:
Bosch replied saying that the 400wh battery is not designed for the CX motor, so they do not offer an adaptor to use the 400wh battery in a full fat Gen 5 ebike.
Click to expand...
That's not what whyte say with their elyte evo bike. It has the Cx motor and the 400wh battery. I reckon if you can make a bracket/adapter for the battery it should work.

whytebikes.com

ELyte EVO RS Trail/enduro electric mountain bike

Our latest full-power, full-torque – all the time – ELyte EVO RS will help you make the most of your precious time, every ride: go farther, faster; enjoy more fun trails; hone your skills; explore further, and grow in confidence. With a full carbon frame, a super low centre of gravity for the...
whytebikes.com whytebikes.com
 
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Whyte highlights the CX motor is compatible with the 400wh battery - but it appears Bosch did not design the 400wh for the CX motor. Crestline do mounts for their bike to allow a 400wh battery to be used - but it is designed for their bike, and does not allow batteries to be swapped without changing the mounts. The universal adaptor would need to extend the length of battery, like the old extender for 500 to 625. However, it appears that the 400wh power port is not in the middle of the battery, so an extender might not be possible. I think this is what Bosch are getting at. My guess is that this may have been deliberate.

For my use case, a 600wh battery does not save enough weight to justify buying a second battery. If someone figures out how to use a 400wh in a full fat bike, I would very likely buy one.
 
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Rob Rides EMTB said:
Pretty sure @Plummet uses a 400Wh on his Crestline
Click to expand...
Indeed I do and it is my favorite configuration.

Theres no derating of power and I can get 3 hours in tour+ 70nm or about an hour and half going full banana.

The 400wh is installed now. Ill have to take it and take some photos.

Crestline make and extension for the alloy plates that bolt onto the end of the battery. What im not sure of is if the endplates are Bosch standard or Crestline standard.
 
Ah - I thought it was different mounts. That is really interesting - sounds like it might be a universal solution 😀

I will wait to see the photos before getting too excited. Fingers crossed it is a Bosch standard. Crestline do not have any in stock, but have said they will make more if they get enough demand.
 
neiloxford said:
Whyte highlights the CX motor is compatible with the 400wh battery - but it appears Bosch did not design the 400wh for the CX motor. Crestline do mounts for their bike to allow a 400wh battery to be used - but it is designed for their bike, and does not allow batteries to be swapped without changing the mounts. The universal adaptor would need to extend the length of battery, like the old extender for 500 to 625. However, it appears that the 400wh power port is not in the middle of the battery, so an extender might not be possible. I think this is what Bosch are getting at. My guess is that this may have been deliberate.

For my use case, a 600wh battery does not save enough weight to justify buying a second battery. If someone figures out how to use a 400wh in a full fat bike, I would very likely buy one.
Click to expand...

Whyte stated somewhere that you shouldn't / can't use the 400wh battery only, so the REX should be always attached. Can't remember where I saw read that.

Anyway, not sure why you mention this but the 1 kg difference between the 800 and 600 is definitely noticeable. Wrode mine back to back and the bike feels more lively.
 
There ya go lads. How do your batteries mount in your frames? is it with these black alloy plates? of something else?

If its the black alloy plates with the same bolt holes then yes the crestline option will work. If its a different mounting style then all you need to do is engineer an adapter plate to bridge the gap between 400wh and 600wh/800wh distance.

PS I highly recommend this mod. It removes forward weight bias from the bike and the bike rides so closely to a mtb its fantastic.
 
Plummet said:
There ya go lads. How do your batteries mount in your frames? is it with these black alloy plates? of something else?

If its the black alloy plates with the same bolt holes then yes the crestline option will work. If its a different mounting style then all you need to do is engineer an adapter plate to bridge the gap between 400wh and 600wh/800wh distance.

PS I highly recommend this mod. It removes forward weight bias from the bike and the bike rides so closely to a mtb its fantastic.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the photos. So, where did you buy the aluminum mount? From Crestline directly? Because I don’t see it on their website.

For my bike, the battery is mounted directly on a cover that can be completely removed from the bike. It’s not the same system as Crestline.

This could perhaps replace part 1 in the plan below, where a replacement piece would need to be created for that section.
I also see a second problem: on the Crestline, it seems that the battery connection to the bike is via a cable, which means it can move.
On the Mondraker, however, it’s a fixed connector.

Since the connector on the Compact 400 battery is not at the same position as on the 600/800 batteries, it won’t be possible to connect it without an intermediate cable.

Plummet is possible to you to take a photo of the 2 batteries on Connector side ?​




1755756561305.png
 
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Thank you Plummet.

It appears that a universal adaptor solution would need to have an extension at each end of the 400wh battery. At the power end, a power connector adaptor, and at the other end an adaptor to make it the same size as the 600wh battery. The adaptors would need screw holes in the same position as the 600wh battery on the outer ends.

Using only a powermore 250 would be easier, but lower energy, and battery is higher in the bike.
 
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neiloxford said:
Thank you Plummet.

It appears that a universal adaptor solution would need to have an extension at each end of the 400wh battery. At the power end, a power connector adaptor, and at the other end an adaptor to make it the same size as the 600wh battery. The adaptors would need screw holes in the same position as the 600wh battery on the outer ends.

Using only a powermore 250 would be easier, but lower energy, and battery is higher in the bike.
Click to expand...
And do you also need an additional adapter or cable to go from the battery to the battery socket? What bike do you have?
 
Davzell said:
And do you also need an additional adapter or cable to go from the battery to the battery socket? What bike do you have?
Click to expand...
Good question, is the battery socket at the top of the battery in the frame or bottom and is the existing power cable long enough for the few inched of length difference. Here is a picture of the business end of a battery.

1755789577118.jpeg
 
Ndanger said:
Good question, is the battery socket at the top of the battery in the frame or bottom and is the existing power cable long enough for the few inched of length difference. Here is a picture of the business end of a battery.
Click to expand...


here is a 800w, Compact tube400 and 600w.
i think the I think the socket is lower than 800/600 battery

Ndanger said:
1755790111938.png
Click to expand...
In my case, this is a problem because on Mondraker, the connection to the battery is fixed. It's not a cable to connect like on Crestline bikes. So I think I'm stuck, as there doesn't seem to be a linking cable available from Bosch.
1755790427601.png
 
To me that would be over complicated with the Crafty, the lenght issue, the position issue then the cover issues. Real headache. But you can get good results with the 600wh which is plug and play
 
Bogdan_CH said:
To me that would be over complicated with the Crafty, the lenght issue, the position issue then the cover issues. Real headache. But you can get good results with the 600wh which is plug and play
Click to expand...
I think the only realistic solution is the 600wh or Powermore 250 until Bosch make a powertube 400wh, which may never happen. Crestline sold 10 adaptors with 100 bikes ( I think ) indicating reasonable demand, but perhaps not enough demand for Bosch to be interested.
 
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