Just tested 2026 Amflow Pl

Astro66 said:
Great. Continue to use the lesser product. I'm choosing to use the greater product. Both are certified as EU compliant. And that's all I'm concerned with.
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If Santa Cruz made an Avinox bike. Or if locally I could get one of the good ones like maybe a Druid, then I would be thinking that too, being honest.

But a bike is so much more than just the motor. If it's like this, hypothetically:

Vala - frame and kinematic 9/10, motor 7/10
Amflow - frame and kinematic 7/10, motor 10/10

Then for me the Vala still wins. I'm not saying that necessarily is the state of it, but it might be from what I'm picking up. So you can think motor=bike (product) but I don't think that way. Maybe it's because I'm "old school". Or maybe because I've had 7 ebikes and have a clue.
 
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Zed said:
Then for me the Vala still wins.
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I've told lots of people they wouldn't like the Amflow. It's not for everyone. I agree that if you are buying a single bike for you. Don't get the Amflow. That said. I think you'd love the DJI Crestline.

Zed said:
So you can think motor=bike (product) but I don't think that way.
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Either do I. The DJI motor just makes a bike climb better, IMO. But if climbing isn't your thing. Then the DJI motor is no different to all the other motors. Maybe just a touch lighter.

Buy the best bike. Not motor. But if someone combines the best bike, with one of the current best motors. Then I'd point you at that. Hence the Crestline.
 
Tooks said:
Will be on the non-EMTB though, human traction control too, wish me luck!
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:ROFLMAO: You'll need it.

I stopped riding MTBs. Doctors orders. Heart issues. I run a heart rate monitor and use the assist level to keep it in check. The motor is actually preventing me going into cardiac arrest ..... :ROFLMAO:

So I need a powerful motor ..... ;)
 
Astro66 said:
Buy the best bike. Not motor. But if someone combines the best bike, with one of the current best motors. Then I'd point you at that. Hence the Crestline.
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If DJI Crestlines were available here in a local shop, where I could take it back and yell at someone about it, where I didn't have deal with importing and warranty pain and all that shit, and I could get one when I'm ready to spend... then I'd be into it. But I'm just not up for all the hassle :) Maybe if I rode one and it was soooo far ahead of anything I'd care to do all that, but while it's just brochure... nah, it's all too hard. I've been burned with that kind of boutique buying-a-dream-and-then-being-disappointed before.

Hopefully, the Avinox pans out reliability wise, and we'll likely see it all kinds of top-name bikes soon, including maybe Santa Cruz, Orbea.
 
Zed said:
If DJI Crestlines were available here in a local shop, where I could take it back and yell at someone about it,
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Same for me. But apparently Troyden from Crestline has been pretty brilliant with support worldwide. I saw him interviewed. He seems a good guy. Genuinely interested in delivering the best EMTB.

The only reason I won't be making a bid on one of the 2026 DJI Crestlines is, I just don't do enough gravity riding, that would suit that bike. As I've said previously. My plan is to burley up Amflow, as my riding improves. Then if I spend more time on gravity, I might look at a 180/170 EMTB.
 
Zed said:
No, ABS is not like analog vs MTB at all. Or traction control.

Brake control, weight distribution are fundamental parts of mountain biking. These should only be inviting to those without skill. Even dirt motos switch their ABS off. Electronic suspension I reserve judgement haven't played with it could be good certainly if it includes self-tuning. Unnecessary $ for me.

eMTBs are inviting to those who don't want to maintain a pedalling fitness regime, especially through and after mid-life. Not wanting to build skills isn't (usually, hopefully) part of it.
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tracy mosley just one on abs and stated you can brake later with them. are you a better rider and faster than her?
 
sethimus said:
tracy mosley just one on abs and stated you can brake later with them. are you a better rider and faster than her?
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No. Look maybe it gave her an advantage and enabled her win. Or maybe she would've won on 2-pot XTs. I don't even race, it's completely irrelevant to me.

Apparently Tracey Moseley has had 16 World Cup DH wins. How many were without ABS?

Could there possibly be any motivation from the maker of said ABS to have their sponsored riders use ABS, and win, and then say the expensive new tech helped, and then people in forums could say shit like "tracy mosley just one on abs and stated you can brake later with them. are you a better rider and faster than her?" which would convince sheep to buy said expensive ABS?
 
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Astro66 said:
The only reason I won't be making a bid on one of the 2026 DJI Crestlines is, I just don't do enough gravity riding, that would suit that bike.
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Yeah look honestly even the Orbea Wild I had made my local trails pretty meh. That's why I'm looking in the 150mm range now. The Orbea was very planted and did not want to get off the ground and very plush, it just ate everything up which has it's place but trails around here just aren't challenging on something that capable.

I have to wonder, if you need to keep your heart rate down how the hell you would ride gravity. I get my heart rate into zone 5 while descending pretty easily.
 
Zed said:
I have to wonder, if you need to keep your heart rate down how the hell you would ride gravity.
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I have alarms on my watch. If they go off. I just stop what I'm doing.

That said. I have more issues with jumps than gravity. They excite me too much ...... :ROFLMAO: But yeah. I've needed to ride around a few to get the heart rate down.

I remember doing research and there was an Ebike that allowed you to tie your heartrate to the assist. But it was for training rather than protection, to maintain a minimum heartrate, rather than a maximum, which is what I need.
 
Astro66 said:
I remember doing research and there was an Ebike that allowed you to tie your heartrate to the assist. But it was for training rather than protection, to maintain a minimum heartrate, rather than a maximum, which is what I need.
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I remember there was an app that did this with the Levo, I did try it a long time ago. The problem was there is always latency on the heart rate, so by the time heart rate went up and the assist kicked in more, the heart rate would keep going up for a bit anyway. Still, it did sort of work. Just with big spikes :)
 
Zed said:
I remember there was an app that did this with the Levo, I did try it a long time ago. The problem was there is always latency on the heart rate, so by the time heart rate went up and the assist kicked in more, the heart rate would keep going up for a bit anyway. Still, it did sort of work. Just with big spikes :)
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Blevo.

I think mission control also let you do it later on ?

Watches aren't great for quick heart rate response due to bones, ligaments etc. They rely a lot on algorithms to guess the bits their missing.

Chest straps are theoretically the most accurate, but aren't overly comfortable.

Bicep bands work well as a compromise, but some will still lag slightly. Sticking your watch further up your forearm is a good compromise also.
 
Zed said:
Hopefully, the Avinox pans out reliability wise, and we'll likely see it all kinds of top-name bikes soon, including maybe Santa Cruz, Orbea.
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That said. I'm not completely decided against getting the Amflow, in a month or two. It could happen still. The reality is I was strongly considering a lightweight bike/mid power bike - even like a Levo SL. The Amflow seems to pretty much make that category pointless, I have to say. I didn't like the Fuel EXE, it felt far too "light trail" to me, just under-gunned. If the Amflow is more levo-but-light, then yeah, that could work for my local trails, in fact it could be awesome for my local trails.
 
Zimmerframe said:
Chest straps are theoretically the most accurate, but aren't overly comfortable.
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I run a chest strap when riding as well. I just don't have the alarms tied to it. I have it as the most prominent display on the Avinox screen.

BTW. I also use the chest strap when playing squash. Connects to a phone App. The missus won't let me wear it when I'm on the nest ....... I have set the watch alarms off a few times though ....... :ROFLMAO:
 
Tooks said:
Bosch (and other motors) implement traction control in a different way, they don’t need the 42 point sensor ring, otherwise they’d have one.

The single wheel sensor on the Bosch is for speed, other parts of the equation are torque input, pedal pressure cadence and information from the motor IMUs.

Basically it does the traction control at the motor end, you’re not waiting a whole wheel revolution before it does something about traction.

it’s like comparing a Haldex AWD system to a Torsen Diff AWD setup on a car. They both do the job, just in different ways.
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Hall effect sensors are an amazing technology and have the ability to be extremely granular in precision measurements. The technology is a quantum scale improvement (magnet only sensing one revolution). Actually I have a hard time believing it has not been universally implemented. Not sure if it was the cost of developing it for the motor unites or just legacy "if it isn't broke" complacency. It is my belief that greater accuracy of the speed metrics is one of the reasons that the DJI system has good integration with the power delivery. I would be surprised if we did not see the magnet go the way of the dodo bird.
 
Ndanger said:
Hall effect sensors are an amazing technology and have the ability to be extremely granular in precision measurements. The technology is a quantum scale improvement (magnet only sensing one revolution). Actually I have a hard time believing it has not been universally implemented. Not sure if it was the cost of developing it for the motor unites or just legacy "if it isn't broke" complacency. It is my belief that greater accuracy of the speed metrics is one of the reasons that the DJI system has good integration with the power delivery. I would be surprised if we did not see the magnet go the way of the dodo bird.
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Yes, Hall sensors are a great invention, we use them in aviation (my sector) a lot.

They’re also in the motor on a Bosch CX, so I don’t think there is any complacency going on.

Perhaps they’ll adopt the Avinox approach and lose the single magnet wheel speed sensor at some point too.
 
Zed said:
I clearly need a demo
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Hopefully not with the original tires.

Tire change really helped with its tight turning. But most of that is just me getting used to this geometry. It took about a 100 miles before I felt comfortable and bonded and started pushing it.
 
Astro66 said:
I have a 600Watt 85Nm Merida E160 as a spare bike to my Amflow PL Carbon Pro. There is no comparison on technical climbs. The power, torque and overrun of the Amflow, means you can take completely different lines when climbing. I just go right over the top of obstacles with the Amflow, that I have to go around with the Merida. You just carry so much more momentum over the obstacles, when you can accelerate so quickly, so instantly.

The reason I place such importance on technical climbing, is because you can normally clear a technical downhill, by just slowing down. But when your EMTB is less capable climbing. It means you need to walk the bike through technical sections, that you can clear on the Amflow.

I don't want the fastest bike up or downhill. I just don't want to need to walk some of the uphill sections, because I stall during the climb.
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Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I’m an average rider at best. I ride because I love it and I’m getting to know what I prefer. I love tech uphill climbing and I felt that buying an ebike would enhance that joy for me and when I heard about the combination of additional torque of the Avinox, the lighter weight, and the Avinox system for customisation, and the battery size etc, being a very lightweight rider, I felt that the bike (the base model) would more than suit my needs so I took one for a test ride and immediately put down a deposit! I can’t wait for it to arrive. 😃
 
I love riding my Amflow - it feels super poppy and playful. The motor response is amazing.

I would like to ride a Vala, but I'm unsure what the benefit would really be - the Amflow descends fantastically and I've never once thought that the bike is compromised in any capacity downhill. Both Vala and Amflow have the same reach, the Vala is 0.3 of a degree slacker on paper - I think anyone is kidding themselves if they think they can sense 0.3 degrees in a head tube angle.

There are plenty of UK youtubers riding Amflows on terrain that would make most 180mm Fox 38 kashima equipped carpark warriors cry just at the mere sight of the trailhead. I am not worried about the strength or capability one bit.
 
Plyphon said:
I love riding my Amflow - it feels super poppy and playful. The motor response is amazing.

I would like to ride a Vala, but I'm unsure what the benefit would really be - the Amflow descends fantastically and I've never once thought that the bike is compromised in any capacity downhill. Both Vala and Amflow have the same reach, the Vala is 0.3 of a degree slacker on paper - I think anyone is kidding themselves if they think they can sense 0.3 degrees in a head tube angle.

There are plenty of UK youtubers riding Amflows on terrain that would make most 180mm Fox 38 kashima equipped carpark warriors cry just at the mere sight of the trailhead. I am not worried about the strength or capability one bit.
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Sounds like a good bike for you and your riding. 👍

I think too many people worry about whether a bike is ‘enduro’, trail, ‘all mountain’ etc, the most difficult thing most of them do here in the UK is a National Forest Trail Centre anyway.

Let’s be honest, and I’m talking about me here as well, most bikes can do more than their riders can or are willing to do.

As ever, get out and ride! 👍
 
Plyphon said:
There are plenty of UK youtubers riding Amflows on terrain that would make most 180mm Fox 38 kashima equipped carpark warriors cry just at the mere sight of the trailhead. I am not worried about the strength or capability one bit.
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Elite riders (and some youtubers) could outride us all on a 120mm trail bike, in terms of speed and in terms of trail gnarliness. That doesn't mean it's the best bike for any for us on our local trails.

By the same token, I can (and used to) ride all my local trails on a hardtail. Does not make it the best tool for the job.
 
Plyphon said:
I am not worried about the strength or capability one bit
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Having the 2026 fox 36 forks is a huge benefit, that almost offers 38 stiffness. 87% of the stiffness of a 38

Its rocky and chunky here, and so far the bike is just running through it. What ive noticed, is more control in the radical bumpy sections where a rider loses confidence so you can increase speed through the rough sections.
 
Plyphon said:
I love riding my Amflow - it feels super poppy and playful.
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That is the second greatest difference I have noticed over previous full power EMTBs. I just look like a more experienced rider because I can move the bike around with such ease.
 
Zed said:
Elite riders (and some youtubers) could outride us all on a 120mm trail bike, in terms of speed and in terms of trail gnarliness. That doesn't mean it's the best bike for any for us on our local trails.

By the same token, I can (and used to) ride all my local trails on a hardtail. Does not make it the best tool for the job.
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Not sure I understand the point you're making. I'm not saying it's the fastest or best bike for anyone. I'm saying it is plenty strong enough as a design.


 
Plyphon said:
I'm saying it is plenty strong enough as a design.
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I concur. It's a Category 4 rated EMTB and clearly labelled as such on the downtube. So .........

Stick to the design parameters of a category 4 mountain bike.
Set your suspension up correctly and don't bottom it out.
Don't weight overload the bike.

Comply with this and you won't crack the frame. That's all you can ask of the design. I find drops to flat the most loading on the suspension, so I definitely limit drops to 1 metre. It also starts to hurt my ankles and knees at this distance. Not as young as I used to be .... 🤭
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