A car is not fun without sound and smells
Specialized 3.1 S-Works motor review and DJI power comparison
- Thread starter knut7
- Start date
If you don’t like a post why bother to even read it, BizarreThe point is that looks are subjective, lots of people thought the Gen 3 Levo was weird looking, ugly even.
We all do subjective, it’s why I’m not interested in anything Haibike sell, I don’t like how they look but the one I hired when on a holiday once rode excellently.
Opinions are fine, it’s why we’re all here a lot of the time, pushing subjective opinions on everybody else is just needlessly antagonistic and makes the forum a negative place sometimes.
Like all the posts over lots of threads which aren’t even about Amflow/Avinox, or all of a sudden ‘thick downtubes’ being in the barrel?
It’s like EV forums when Tesla fanbois couldn’t help themselves, it eventually settles down but meantime there are plenty of needlessly antagonistic posters pushing their positions.
No reasoning, no understanding, no need.
I spose the established brands and there Fans don’t like it when a new kid arrives in town and just wipes the floor with the best they can come up with.
Grow up. Most of the ‘energy vacuums’ on here have one thing in common at the moment.
Most people on here are just fans of emtbs, that’s the sum of it.
A poor looking bike is a poor looking bike, no matter how you try an spin it.
The point is, everybody’s view on what constitutes a ‘poor looking bike’ is different.
Most people don’t post asking for views on whether their bike is great looking or not do they.
Power1tobe
Active member
That's your personal opinion, and we all know how the old saying goes.... these are all just personal opinions, so lets keep on point
Yes i agree, but i am far from alone with this view on the looks of this bike.
Agree, but, but, but
and rides really crap alsoAgree, but, but, but
Power1tobe
Active member
lol, did Splesh kick your dog?
Is that all?
Account Deleted
Active member
An e-Mtb is so much more than motor & battery though. And I don't mean apps. I mean geo, kinematic, poppiness etc. Is the AMflow really king of the hill in all those areas? Does it put Santa Cruz & Orbea to shame for example? Is it the very best enduro sled and play bike all at the same time? Do tyres get grippier on the AMFlow?
the colours are good though, and plenty of room to pack a good lunch.
I agree it’s a Total Package, leaving the DJI unit aside, i think they aced it at the time with the Gen 3 S works it really was the best all round EMTB at the time. My UNNO MITH arriveds next week really looking forward to see how it compares ride handling wise to the AMflow.An e-Mtb is so much more than motor & battery though. And I don't mean apps. I mean geo, kinematic, poppiness etc. Is the AMflow really king of the hill in all those areas? Does it put Santa Cruz & Orbea to shame for example? Is it the very best enduro sled and play bike all at the same time? Do tyres get grippier on the AMFlow?
Account Deleted
Active member
Look, I haven't tried it so maybe you're right. But doing my usual thing of ingesting all possibly content when I'm considering a new bike, I remain unconvinced that it's a superior frame, especially for a heavier bloke like myself.
Take for example Flow's review (summary below) of the Amflow, back in December. I give Flow a lot of weight as I tend to agree with them historically on pretty much everything. Maybe it's a latitude thing...
"Not the burliest spec or chassis in this travel bracket"
And then the Vala, a while after that, back in Feb,
...and they say things about the Vala like "class leading", they spend a lot of time praising the frame and ride. Much more than the Amflow which gets a "surprisingly decent".
Vala again:
Considering the frame quality and well-considered build kit, it’s clear where the money has been spent. It’s all top-notch stuff, and we like that the focus has been on performance over weight. It all adds up to a brilliant e-MTB that is ready for just about anything you could throw at it. If you’re after the one bike to do most, it’d be hard to think of anything else that offers this level of refinement.
And again, that's after the AMFlow review and after the Amflow had been available in Aus for months.
My local shop will have AMFlows for demo in a month or two they say. They also sell Valas but I doubt I will be able to test. So I have a conundrum. But I lean to the Vala currently I think, for the total package.
The DJI is certainly a lighter and reallly impressive motor and battery. But that reduced weight doesn't explain how light the Amflow is. That weight has to have come off somewhere and I wonder if it's just that there is a lot less carbon in the frame. Not sure that's a trade off I want to make.
Anyway, sorry to divert the Spesh thread, I'll go away now
The DJI motor/ battery is half a kilo, or 1.1#s lighter (800w vs. 800w) than the Gen 5 Bosch once the frame is made smaller to match the slim battery. That's 500 grams. Source: measured weight difference between a Gen5 and Avinox Crestline frameset.
That said, the CX-R motor is 100 grams lighter than the standard CX.
The Avinox needs a bash guard, and this is the only one I've ever seen: Turbocharger Race 104BCD e*spec Spider, Bashguard and Chainring and I'd just wing a guess that it weighs about 200 grams.
So really now the weight difference between the 2 systems is a paltry 100 grams/ .25#. * assumes you buy the CX-R.
But the big one is that the Bosch is about 20% more efficient (IMO) meaning that a 600watt Bosch battery is equivalent to about a 720 watt Avinox battery. 120 watts of a DJI battery weighs 555 grams putting the DJI in the hole about 455grams/ 1#, if they offered a 720w battery.
Now the Bosch is effectively 1# lighter in terms of how far it can travel on a given battery size. More as the battery size further increases.
Ever notice that there are often comments about how quickly the Avinox battery gets used up rather quickly, yet nearly every Bosch review states how they were surprised that the 600w was plenty afterall?
That said, the CX-R motor is 100 grams lighter than the standard CX.
The Avinox needs a bash guard, and this is the only one I've ever seen: Turbocharger Race 104BCD e*spec Spider, Bashguard and Chainring and I'd just wing a guess that it weighs about 200 grams.
So really now the weight difference between the 2 systems is a paltry 100 grams/ .25#. * assumes you buy the CX-R.
But the big one is that the Bosch is about 20% more efficient (IMO) meaning that a 600watt Bosch battery is equivalent to about a 720 watt Avinox battery. 120 watts of a DJI battery weighs 555 grams putting the DJI in the hole about 455grams/ 1#, if they offered a 720w battery.
Now the Bosch is effectively 1# lighter in terms of how far it can travel on a given battery size. More as the battery size further increases.
Ever notice that there are often comments about how quickly the Avinox battery gets used up rather quickly, yet nearly every Bosch review states how they were surprised that the 600w was plenty afterall?
Last edited:
Look, I haven't tried it so maybe you're right. But doing my usual thing of ingesting all possibly content when I'm considering a new bike, I remain unconvinced that it's a superior frame, especially for a heavier bloke like myself.
Take for example Flow's review (summary below) of the Amflow, back in December. I give Flow a lot of weight as I tend to agree with them historically on pretty much everything. Maybe it's a latitude thing...
View attachment 165860
"Not the burliest spec or chassis in this travel bracket"
And then the Vala, a while after that, back in Feb,
View attachment 165859
...and they say things about the Vala like "class leading", they spend a lot of time praising the frame and ride. Much more than the Amflow which gets a "surprisingly decent".
Vala again:
Considering the frame quality and well-considered build kit, it’s clear where the money has been spent. It’s all top-notch stuff, and we like that the focus has been on performance over weight. It all adds up to a brilliant e-MTB that is ready for just about anything you could throw at it. If you’re after the one bike to do most, it’d be hard to think of anything else that offers this level of refinement.
And again, that's after the AMFlow review and after the Amflow had been available in Aus for months.
My local shop will have AMFlows for demo in a month or two they say. They also sell Valas but I doubt I will be able to test. So I have a conundrum. But I lean to the Vala currently I think, for the total package.
The DJI is certainly a lighter and reallly impressive motor and battery. But that reduced weight doesn't explain how light the Amflow is. That weight has to have come off somewhere and I wonder if it's just that there is a lot less carbon in the frame. Not sure that's a trade off I want to make.
Anyway, sorry to divert the Spesh thread, I'll go away now
I know what you mean about viewing all available content before making a decision on which bike to buy. But the problem with that is like car reviews, many are based on the fact that if the person gives an honest assessment then it will be most likely that that reviewer won’t be invited to the next launch etc. I have seen this so many times with car reviews EMTBs are no different. I know what you mean about the AMflow motor batt, sw aside nothing is ground breaking but it just works so well as a total package. I had never heard of AMflow then on trial a chap had one who kindly let me have a go. It was if someone had landed from the Future with a EMTB. Interesting to see just how much the UNNO moves the frame on and the riding experience from the AMflow.Look, I haven't tried it so maybe you're right. But doing my usual thing of ingesting all possibly content when I'm considering a new bike, I remain unconvinced that it's a superior frame, especially for a heavier bloke like myself.
Take for example Flow's review (summary below) of the Amflow, back in December. I give Flow a lot of weight as I tend to agree with them historically on pretty much everything. Maybe it's a latitude thing...
View attachment 165860
"Not the burliest spec or chassis in this travel bracket"
And then the Vala, a while after that, back in Feb,
View attachment 165859
...and they say things about the Vala like "class leading", they spend a lot of time praising the frame and ride. Much more than the Amflow which gets a "surprisingly decent".
Vala again:
Considering the frame quality and well-considered build kit, it’s clear where the money has been spent. It’s all top-notch stuff, and we like that the focus has been on performance over weight. It all adds up to a brilliant e-MTB that is ready for just about anything you could throw at it. If you’re after the one bike to do most, it’d be hard to think of anything else that offers this level of refinement.
And again, that's after the AMFlow review and after the Amflow had been available in Aus for months.
My local shop will have AMFlows for demo in a month or two they say. They also sell Valas but I doubt I will be able to test. So I have a conundrum. But I lean to the Vala currently I think, for the total package.
The DJI is certainly a lighter and reallly impressive motor and battery. But that reduced weight doesn't explain how light the Amflow is. That weight has to have come off somewhere and I wonder if it's just that there is a lot less carbon in the frame. Not sure that's a trade off I want to make.
Anyway, sorry to divert the Spesh thread, I'll go away now
Account Deleted
Active member
Yeah and that's a lot of what worries me with the Amflow, them simply giving bikes to a lot of the youtubers to keep long term. I assume that for more than just Jeff Kendall-Weed, it was the first time that's happened. Difficult to be objective when you just got gifted a top shelf Amflow I reckon...
I know what you mean, i would have never have believed that the bike would ride so well unless i had ridden it myself. I know to 2 YTsers that after testing went on to buy a bike from there own funds. Car makers give mags cars to run long term FOC. Most shops i know will give a demo ride on trails with the Amflow. It is a fact that this bike has kept some shops alive, that for itself speaks volumes
DirkWisely
Well-known member
There just isn't a 20% efficiency difference to be had with modern electric motors. This has to be down to support levels. I've heard people say the gen4 levo battery is dying fast, but I'm getting more range than on my gen3 per watt. You have to take any user reported range with a huge grain of salt. How have they configured the assist? Are they soft pedaling or putting in work? Too many variables.
Account Deleted
Active member
Yes, good point. Interestingly, in Flow's review they always do the same practical range test in Turbo (I don't work for them, honest!
)It's here, about 75% down the page: 2025 Amflow PL Carbon Review | Is This The New Lightweight, Full-Powered e-MTB Benchmark?
And here's the top 5. Noting again, this is in Turbo:
- Norco Sight VLT (Shimano EP8, 900Wh Battery) – 2,478m climbing
- Amflow PL Carbon (Avinox M1, 800Wh Battery) – 2,460m climbing
- Canyon Spectral:ON (Shimano EP8, 900Wh Battery) – 2,451m climbing
- Cube Stereo Hybrid 160 (Bosch CX Gen 4, 750Wh Battery) – 2,320m climbing
- Merida eOne-Sixty (Shimano EP801, 600Wh Battery) – 2,114m climbing
Account Deleted
Active member
Yes, good point. Interestingly, in Flow's review they always do the same practical range test in Turbo (I don't work for them, honest!
And, to publicly argue with myself, 2025 Santa Cruz Vala Review | Conventional Looks, Class-Leading Performance
The Vala, with it's new 600Wh Bosch, doesn't get close:
Again, that's in Turbo. But, even the old e160 killed it with same Wh.
DirkWisely
Well-known member
I'm sure higher assist is a bit less efficient for all motors, since there's probably more frictional loss in the system when delivery more watts, but it's not a huge difference.
Also you get similar climbing per watt with these systems, but your ride won't last as long. Turns out climbing the same incline twice as fast means you spend twice the power per second, but finish in half the time.
There are probably other nuances that make higher power more efficient too. Like you might glide over terrain a bit more at higher speeds than lower speeds.
Also you get similar climbing per watt with these systems, but your ride won't last as long. Turns out climbing the same incline twice as fast means you spend twice the power per second, but finish in half the time.
There are probably other nuances that make higher power more efficient too. Like you might glide over terrain a bit more at higher speeds than lower speeds.
I agree with this, about lots of variables but just about everyone I know that came from a Gen 3 and got tucked up with a Gen 4 all report a reduced range.
DirkWisely
Well-known member
Are they riding with the same level of assist though?
That list shows a lot of them are clustered around 3 metres per Wh, you could throw a blanket over them.
The outlier is the Scott Lumen at 4.35 metres per Wh, perhaps a mistake given the other TQ HPR50 equipped bike is back in the 3.3 metres per Wh range?
As ever, it depends what you’re looking for from a motor/bike, they’ll all help get you up a mountain, which is kind of the point.
You know what they say about statistics though…
Account Deleted
Active member
Indeed, but it does indicate there is no great shortcoming with the DJI, a shortcoming which was discussed in the previous posts (vs the Bosch Gen 5).
It also indicates there's no magic efficiency improvement with the Bosch Gen 5, another thing discussed in the thread prior.
You know what else they say about statistics though...
Last edited:
Account Deleted
Active member
They're max assist - turbo, so no. The motors that support high wattage are using it.
Similar Threads
-
-
Rhythmic Rattle Only Under Assist on Brose S Mag — Belt Replaced, Noise Still There (Video Included)- Started by Milijevic
- Replies: 2
-
-
-