Levo Gen 4 Slowest full power bike on the market

[Citylad77]

It is interesting to see the comments about the general qualities of the bike from individuals that have ridden the new version. The impressions seem to diverge from the narrative that dedicated mountain bike youtube channels and their prominent promoters present, including a recent shootout claiming it top spot.

You have to remember a lot of these You T era get there income from there videos, unless they say nice things they won’t get a bike to test next time. Personally I would not base a decision to buy or not to buy any bike based on a you tube video. Though that loan wolf lot makes it clear that there’s are not paid videos at least by the bike makers. See they put the AMflow on top spot, I would have done same.

 

[Power1tobe]

It is interesting to see the comments about the general qualities of the bike from individuals that have ridden the new version. The impressions seem to diverge from the narrative that dedicated mountain bike youtube channels and their prominent promoters present, including a recent shootout claiming it top spot.

did you mean to say "individuals that have NEVER ridden the new version"? The folks referred to as "I hate the downtube" people

 

[Ndanger]

did you mean to say "individuals that have NEVER ridden the new version"? The folks referred to as "I hate the downtube" people

Actually I think that the correct term is "I dislike the downtubes of size" sensibilities. The comments I take notice of are from individuals that have ridden other bikes and then ride the new version and share their experience. The issues that I see brought forward are not just with the aesthetics, quite the opposite.

Whisky Tango Foxtrot... whats up with the weight?

Am I seeing the trend away from that design approach, now with higher energy density batteries, smaller lighter - more powerful motors, and frame engineering advances that eliminate bulk?

 

[Frankie_r]

Slowest how?

They all are limited to the same speed

I don’t know if it’s the slowest, but for sure it’s the fattest

 

[DirkWisely]

Actually I think that the correct term is "I dislike the downtubes of size" sensibilities. The comments I take notice of are from individuals that have ridden other bikes and then ride the new version and share their experience. The issues that I see brought forward are not just with the aesthetics, quite the opposite.

Whisky Tango Foxtrot... whats up with the weight?

Am I seeing the trend away from that design approach, now with higher energy density batteries, smaller lighter - more powerful motors, and frame engineering advances that eliminate bulk?

I do wonder how many of the people complaining about the weight have that actually negatively impact their ride. I'm sure some do, but we're talking about a difference of 6-8 pounds when a comparable spec bike would weigh maybe 50 pounds. Maybe if you're throwing it around mid air while jumping you'd notice, but doing regular downhill riding? I doubt even 10% of those people could tell a bike had an extra 8 pounds in a blind test.

Riding heavy vs not has way more to do with the suspension design and how you set it up, than it does a few pounds more or less. Nobody is ever going to call a downhill bike "playful", and it's not because it's a bit heavier than a trail bike.

Now lifting it over a fallen tree? You'll notice extra weight there, but I don't have to do that more than 5-10 times a year, personally.

 

[Jeff McD]

I recently had an interesting experience comparing the levo GEN 3 and the GEN 4 comp. I put my old dropper post on the new GEN four and sadly it got contaminated with oil and failed. So I went back to my GEN three till I get that fixed. I ride with the younger fast group and we have steep technical climbs that are difficult to make. Used to be able to keep up with them but over time I slipped behind. So I really appreciate the more powerful motor of the new bike. It took a while to learn to control the power of the newer bike in turbo but I've gotten good at it. Going backwards to the older bike I missed that so I tried something I had never stuck with on the older one and that is turn the shuttle and responsiveness up to 100%. I have turbo on both bikes set at 100/100. I had somehow convinced myself that I could not control the older bike with those maxed out settings before I got the new one. Gen4 forced me to get used to the quicker reaction time needed on our technical stuff. What I found in comparison was that the older bike in those higher settings and in turbo is just not that far behind the newer one in turbo in its default settings. That's not bad. I thought I was getting the max out of the older bike and I wasn't. It still doesn't have quite as much power even maxed out now as the newer bike but it's not really far behind. In the future I plan to practice bringing the reflexes up to speed to control the gen4 in turbo in our technical trails with even higher than default assist modes. That is after I become comfortable with the default settings (Only had 7 rides on it so far dialing in a lot of other basic things like handlebar height and width, saddle position, fine-tuning position of the electric shifter buttons, etc).

 

[DirkWisely]

I recently had an interesting experience comparing the levo GEN 3 and the GEN 4 comp. I put my old dropper post on the new GEN four and sadly it got contaminated with oil and failed. So I went back to my GEN three till I get that fixed. I ride with the younger fast group and we have steep technical climbs that are difficult to make. Used to be able to keep up with them but over time I slipped behind. So I really appreciate the more powerful motor of the new bike. It took a while to learn to control the power of the newer bike in turbo but I've gotten good at it. Going backwards to the older bike I missed that so I tried something I had never stuck with on the older one and that is turn the shuttle and responsiveness up to 100%. I have turbo on both bikes set at 100/100. I had somehow convinced myself that I could not control the older bike with those maxed out settings before I got the new one. Gen4 forced me to get used to the quicker reaction time needed on our technical stuff. What I found in comparison was that the older bike in those higher settings and in turbo is just not that far behind the newer one in turbo in its default settings. That's not bad. I thought I was getting the max out of the older bike and I wasn't. It still doesn't have quite as much power even maxed out now as the newer bike but it's not really far behind. In the future I plan to practice bringing the reflexes up to speed to control the gen4 in turbo in our technical trails with even higher than default assist modes. That is after I become comfortable with the default settings (Only had 7 rides on it so far dialing in a lot of other basic things like handlebar height and width, saddle position, fine-tuning position of the electric shifter buttons, etc).

I think the Gen 4 defaults to max on turbo. I didn't notice any settings I could max out at least.

 

[TorAtle]

I thought I was getting the max out of the older bike and I wasn't. It still doesn't have quite as much power even maxed out now as the newer bike but it's not really far behind. In the future I plan to practice bringing the reflexes up to speed to control the gen4 in turbo in our technical trails with even higher than default assist modes

I tried the gen 2 this weekend with shuttle maxed out. Then switched back to my modified 600 Watt Orbea Rise (so the same power as any other EP801 motor), it's even easier to max out than the gen 2. Feels faster and probably is. Today I got my gen 4 fixed, and because of the heatwave here now I did the ride with shuttle set to high. It's a really strong motor, great fun on blue trails and so easy to carry speed. On more technical stuff I dropped to trail mode to get more control. Try to up the shuttle, you may like it

 

[TorAtle]

I think the Gen 4 defaults to max on turbo. I didn't notice any settings I could max out at least.

Turbo is maxed out as you say (100/100), but I think mine came with shuttle set to low. Have you tried medium or high?

 

[DirkWisely]

Turbo is maxed out as you say (100/100), but I think mine came with shuttle set to low. Have you tried medium or high?

I've never used Shuttle. I've actually only used Turbo/Dynamic Microtune 99% of the time. Trail for a little bit cause it defaulted to that when turning on.

I have tried shifting the power-on speed (or whatever it's called) to medium, as I noticed even your first peddle in dynamic microtune instantly gooses the power. I might even switch that to slow/low.

 

[TorAtle]

I've never used Shuttle. I've actually only used Turbo/Dynamic Microtune 99% of the time. Trail for a little bit cause it defaulted to that when turning on.

Try changing shuttle to high, the motor will feel a lot more powerful. Btw, shuttle only affects eco, trail and turbo. You'll notice that the shuttle menu is disabled if you go into the motor tune menu while in auto or microtune. While on the subject, it's a welcome improvement to be able to adjust the motor settings without opening the app on the phone. I only use Mastermind to do it now.

 

[Rando_12345]

On paper, yes ... but have some friends I ride with on Orbea with the updated bosh and it out climbs the levo on steep technical terrain .... the "Natural" is just to Natural. (which is most of my riding ... if. you live in JHB think riding UP poffadder at van gaalens)
Put a range extender on for the 30% of the time I need it and I have close to the same battery capacity as the levo....

Still think my gen 3 rides better

Interesting perspective. Just did a huge weekend of riding on my updated Gen5 bosch bike and bumped into 2 friends on their new Levos. For reference, I'm pretty sure I paid less than half price for my bike compared to theirs...

Have you done any range comparisons? They were telling me they were typically getting 1500m of climbing per battery, whereas even with the updated power I think I could comfortably get 1700m despite a technically smaller battery (800wh vs 840wh).

Have you had any derating issues? My friends seem to able to use full power all the time, whereas my turbo derates in under 20 minutes on steep climbs. They are roughly the same weight as me, but fitter.

But anyway, will spesh lower their prices or offer better value? Absolutely not

 

[DuncanDoughnuts]

I do wonder how many of the people complaining about the weight have that actually negatively impact their ride. I'm sure some do, but we're talking about a difference of 6-8 pounds when a comparable spec bike would weigh maybe 50 pounds. Maybe if you're throwing it around mid air while jumping you'd notice, but doing regular downhill riding? I doubt even 10% of those people could tell a bike had an extra 8 pounds in a blind test.

Riding heavy vs not has way more to do with the suspension design and how you set it up, than it does a few pounds more or less. Nobody is ever going to call a downhill bike "playful", and it's not because it's a bit heavier than a trail bike.

Now lifting it over a fallen tree? You'll notice extra weight there, but I don't have to do that more than 5-10 times a year, personally.

I think the weight of the gen 4 is exaggerated.

My gen3 expert with carbon Roval HD wheels comes in at 19.46kg with pedals. (no battery) Eddy current Gravity and MM trail casing
With my 500wh its 22.68kg
with the 700wh its 23.32

My Gen4 comes in at 23.9 with a 840wh battery... and it has DH tires on. I think if I put the same tires on it will be very close to my gen3 with 700 battery ...
Put a 600 battery and it should be between the 500 and 700 on the gen 3.
So weight wise I think the bike is kind of in the ballpark.

 

[Power1tobe]

I've never used Shuttle. I've actually only used Turbo/Dynamic Microtune 99% of the time. Trail for a little bit cause it defaulted to that when turning on.

I have tried shifting the power-on speed (or whatever it's called) to medium, as I noticed even your first peddle in dynamic microtune instantly gooses the power. I might even switch that to slow/low.

Shuttle will give you MAX power with the least amount of input power, so yes it will feel even easier than turbo 100/100.

 

[Power1tobe]

I think the weight of the gen 4 is exaggerated.

My gen3 expert with carbon Roval HD wheels comes in at 19.46kg with pedals. (no battery) Eddy current Gravity and MM trail casing
With my 500wh its 22.68kg
with the 700wh its 23.32

My Gen4 comes in at 23.9 with a 840wh battery... and it has DH tires on. I think if I put the same tires on it will be very close to my gen3 with 700 battery ...
Put a 600 battery and it should be between the 500 and 700 on the gen 3.
So weight wise I think the bike is kind of in the ballpark.

I don't think its exaggerated, its heavy! Specialized could have shaved weight but for whatever reason they didn't. I think the more interesting part or the really exaggerated part is people trying to flex on bikes 3-5 pounds lighter. Face the reality folks a 45lbs or > bike is a pig! When my regular stumpy weighs a little over 20lbs and I switch to a eMTB to ride they all feel stupid heavy. Its just funny how ppl on here argue over 5 lbs when they are being given 600+ watts off free power. You all need to ride MTX for a bit and then it will all fell light. More power = bigger batteries = more weight

 

[DuncanDoughnuts]

Interesting perspective. Just did a huge weekend of riding on my updated Gen5 bosch bike and bumped into 2 friends on their new Levos. For reference, I'm pretty sure I paid less than half price for my bike compared to theirs...

Have you done any range comparisons? They were telling me they were typically getting 1500m of climbing per battery, whereas even with the updated power I think I could comfortably get 1700m despite a technically smaller battery (800wh vs 840wh).

Have you had any derating issues? My friends seem to able to use full power all the time, whereas my turbo derates in under 20 minutes on steep climbs. They are roughly the same weight as me, but fitter.

But anyway, will spesh lower their prices or offer better value? Absolutely not

Have not had any derating issues ...... then again my climbs are more short steep and technical vs long slogs up a hill.

 

[Hitorogoshi]

I've owned quite a few eebs in a short few years. Last being the Crestline 180 before snapping my knee (which I thought was the holy grail of eebs at the time).
I can hands down put my massive cock on the block and say the G4 Levo rides just as well if not better than the Crestie. BUT.... I can't believe people generalize bikes in review. Each bike is going to ride different for each individual also depending on size of the person and bike. I'm a big boy, I would easily be happy on the crestie or G4 levo till the day I die.

 

[Carl_W]

I've owned quite a few eebs in a short few years. Last being the Crestline 180 before snapping my knee (which I thought was the holy grail of eebs at the time).
I can hands down put my massive cock on the block and say the G4 Levo rides just as well if not better than the Crestie. BUT.... I can't believe people generalize bikes in review. Each bike is going to ride different for each individual also depending on size of the person and bike. I'm a big boy, I would easily be happy on the crestie or G4 levo till the day I die.

That is so true, everyone is different sizes and weight, likes different types of trails and riding, and wants different things from their bikes. If you are able to afford a Gen 4 or similar then your blessed, complaining is like like moaning your only a 2 figure millionaire and not a 3 figure millionaire.

 

[Jeff McD]

For Duncan, I've had no derating with my levo gen4 comp that I can feel for certain on prolonged steep climbs here in Kona Hawaii where it is really hot getting into the mid summer months. My gen3 did have derating on some of the prolonged climbs at race pace. So I was really looking for it on those sections that I know well and did not feel it.

 

[JP-NZ]

Or the ones who post about how they’re getting ‘KOM after KOM’, seemingly oblivious to the fact it’s because they’ve now got a more powerful motor.

It’s like claiming I’ve just got a PB on my latest dog walk because I did it on a quad bike…

It’s becoming a strange old world in EMTB land, seems to be getting further and further away from mountain biking all the time, never mind development of bikes, tyres, brakes or suspension (heck, even geometry), it’s about motor power now for a lot of folks.

Great post... its the EMTB world in general. Even on this forum we have seen such a decline in post quality in the last 2 years its sad....

 

[Citylad77]

Great post... it’s the EMTB world in general. Even on this forum we have seen such a decline in post quality in the last 2 years it’s sad....

With regards to post quality. I am of the opposite view, I think it’s great to see posts from those that buy these bikes with their own money. Rather than some biased opinions from paid for YT videos.

 

[Fangs2k]

I think it’s great to see posts from those that buy these bikes with their own money. Rather than some biased opinions from paid for YT videos.

On certain topics, there’s effectively no difference between the two anyway with regard to bias.

It’s not so much that somebody has got a new bike, it’s often the OTT lyricism that goes with it if it’s running a certain motor.

People posting “meh, it’s ok, but” type content are hunted down by the tribe like the dogs they are!

Basically, everybody is on transmit, nobody is on receive.

I look forward to the day when we can focus again on riding, the joy of assisted mountain biking if you like, rather than how fast a bike can get you up a fire road to yet another ‘KOM’…

 

[DuncanDoughnuts]

For Duncan, I've had no derating with my levo gen4 comp that I can feel for certain on prolonged steep climbs here in Kona Hawaii where it is really hot getting into the mid summer months. My gen3 did have derating on some of the prolonged climbs at race pace. So I was really looking for it on those sections that I know well and did not feel it.

I sometimes get that on my Gen3 as well, Never on my Gen2. I wonder if the design of the gen 3 means the motor does not cool as efficiently, since they are the same motor.

 

[Jeff McD]

I distinctly remember the GEN3 being a significant improvement over the older GEN2 with better power delivery, more natural feeling, allowing me to climb things I could not get up on gen2. I'm sure these improvements put a lot more strain on the motor which could have explained the derating.

 

[Power1tobe]

For Duncan, I've had no derating with my levo gen4 comp that I can feel for certain on prolonged steep climbs here in Kona Hawaii where it is really hot getting into the mid summer months. My gen3 did have derating on some of the prolonged climbs at race pace. So I was really looking for it on those sections that I know well and did not feel it.

Out of curiosity how are identifying these de-rated periods (serious question). Does the bike display a message, bike logs, you feel power cuts? Also, when you say prolonged climbs at race pace what time ranges and powers are we talking. Just trying to understand so I can better id these de-rated times. I was out this weekend on a max effort 1:30 sec climb and felt what I would describe as power cuts. The data shows I never tripped class 1 speeds on the climb so trying to understand.

 

[Jeff McD]

Basically it feels like you just lost the top 20% of motor output, down from 100% turbo to 80% – 85%. This only happens on our hottest days in late summer months where I live on a very sunny day with no cloud cover. It happens on several sustained steep 1-2 mi climbs with some 10 yard ultrasteep ups. These climbs require granny gear throughout. You can start off seated but with ultrasteeps you must stand, nose to stem to keep front down, butt slightly off saddle to prevent rear wheel spinout for 20 yards. It's so steep that RPMs eventually drop down to barely turning, but if you keep the cranks turning it won't stall. Then sit and try to recover heart rate while still in granny gear becaue still steep. That's when derating happens and only way to recover assist is to rapidly speed up RPMs so can pause for a millisecond until motor sound cuts out, then pedal again. This resets the software and you have more assist but not quite fully. There are 10 ultrasteeps some with loose marbles and so it's really a noticeable problem. Plus there are several of these long climb sections.
On my fourth motor with the GEN3, which has newer sturdier Kevlar belt and so far that has held up to intense climbing. Fortunately warranty covered it barely. Sadly battery died after warranty expired and had to pay for a new one. Specialized still gave it to me half price US$500 so great company for sure. Haven't ever had derating once with Gen 4. Love this bike. Just got range extender and going to try riding with only that in a couple days.

 

[Jeff McD]

By the way, as I got used to handling the increased power of the newer bike. I recently went back into app and changed GEN3 assist levels to 100% shuttle and responsiveness, which I had thought when I first got the bike was too much to handle so never used. Interested to see if it's still derates in the super hot months coming up.
With this maximum assist I have found to my amazement that GEN3 is not that far behind in power compared to the gen4 default assist settings. So for the future I am going to be training my reflexes to handle higher assist levels on the GEN4 which seem impossible right now. I should also say we have tight twisty singletrack trails, very technical w/greasy roots/rocks, so it will be challenging. Need for speed-a vicious itch that demands scratching, haha.