The frame is cracked. Denied warranty.

[jam56]

Hey, everybody.
I didn't want to make this post until the last moment, but amflow's attitude towards my problem really angered me.

The frame of my amflow has developed cracks! Crunching and grinding sounds gradually started coming out of the headset. Several times I reassembled everything, cleaned, lubricated, but the problem became more and more serious.

I contacted support, described the problem, sent photos and video. Their verdict was that it was my own fault, as I had replaced the stock fork on my bike with a different fork (fox 38 factory), and allegedly the fork had been replaced poorly.

The marks on the frame indicated by the support have occurred during use, as the headset backslides and a grinding sound appears.

I bought the bike on the official site in China through my friend and he shipped it to me in Russia.
There is no authorized amflow dealer in my country, I can only contact online support, but they don't want to help me.

If you were planning to buy this bike, think well whether it is worth it....

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

 

[jam56]

To add. After replacing the fork with a fox 38 factory, I drove about 1000km. But gradually the crunch and backlash started to appear. At first it was an occasional crunch, over time it got louder and more frequent. Reinstalling the headset helped for a while, but the crunch started again. But when I discovered the cracks, I immediately wrote to customer support.

 

[jam56]

This video shows how the bike is operated. There are no big cliff jumps, light trail riding with jumps. Our home spot.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

 

[Suns_PSD]

I can't really take sides but just a couple of notes:

1) Did you ever operate the bike with the preload on the headset not snug? I have done this many times with no damage to name brand bikes, but I could see how it could lead to damage. In fact, my '21 SJEVO (which the Amflow is a direct rip off of) had an adjustable headset from the factory that nearly always clunked a bit and I sent it on that bike and it's never had an issue, and the current owner is a friend of mine till this very day.
2) It's clearly had some bearing impacts from something being loose or poorly fitted. That ain't normal and would have been audible. You can see where the entire headset/ fork was clunking forward and back, based on the marks. Are you certain the headset and fork are all of the correct type?
3) Possibly the frame showed up that poorly finished, but who the 'F' removed that lower headset cup with a flatblade screwdriver and damaged that frame? It should have been tapped out from the top and reinstalled by being frozen with grease and a block of wood. If that's not what happened, then it's clear the headset was loose and banging around, due to the headset preload not being correct.
4) the good thing is that for your trails, you should be able to drill some small holes to prevent crack propagation, CF reinforce, and ride on muchacho.

 

[jam56]

I can't really take sides but just a couple of notes:

1) Did you ever operate the bike with the preload on the headset not snug? I have done this many times with no damage to name brand bikes, but I could see how it could lead to damage. In fact, my '21 SJEVO (which the Amflow is a direct rip off of) had an adjustable headset from the factory that nearly always clunked a bit and I sent it on that bike and it's never had an issue, and the current owner is a friend of mine till this very day.
2) It's clearly had some bearing impacts from something being loose or poorly fitted. That ain't normal and would have been audible. You can see where the entire headset/ fork was clunking forward and back, based on the marks. Are you certain the headset and fork are all of the correct type?
3) Possibly the frame showed up that poorly finished, but who the 'F' removed that lower headset cup with a flatblade screwdriver and damaged that frame? It should have been tapped out from the top and reinstalled by being frozen with grease and a block of wood. If that's not what happened, then it's clear the headset was loose and banging around, due to the headset preload not being correct.
4) the good thing is that for your trails, you should be able to drill some small holes to prevent crack propagation, CF reinforce, and ride on muchacho.

The headset was always assembled and tightened with a torque wrench. The appearance of backlash is always monitored and checked by me.
The fork was changed in a quality bike shop and there is no doubt about it.
The main complaint is two cracks that appeared for unknown reasons and I believe that this is a warranty case.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

 

[Suns_PSD]

The headset was always assembled and tightened with a torque wrench. The appearance of backlash is always monitored and checked by me.
The fork was changed in a quality bike shop and there is no doubt about it.
The main complaint is two cracks that appeared for unknown reasons and I believe that this is a warranty case.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

Not sure you fully answered my questions, but using a torque wrench alone isn't enough to check the preload on the headset. I've experienced many times, a total shock at how large of a gap is required from the top gap of the spacers or top of the stem to the top of the steerer to actually remove all freeplay.

Why/ how was the frame damaged where the headset was removed? Was that the quality shop that installed the fork that did that?

Why have the headset bearing races been damaged if the headset preload wasn't loose? That doesn't happen if everything is fitted and tightened correctly. Bearings don't rock around in there; they rotate smoothly in there and remain in constant contact.

I'm not taking sides, just trying to look at this objectively.

 

[robby]

Not sure you fully answered my questions, but using a torque wrench alone isn't enough to check the preload on the headset. I've experienced many times, a total shock at how large of a gap is required from the top gap of the spacers or top of the stem to the top of the steerer to actually remove all freeplay.

Isn't the point of the torque spec to set the recommended preload? Obviously if you've tightened the headset or something to stop that force from being applied to the head tube, that will do it. But assuming proper installation, what else are you supposed to do besides torque the preload to spec?

 

[Winford]

Bearing race shows signs of moving, which means improper installation.

You had the forks changed and developed a problem exactly because it was done wrong. Thats not frame weakness. If you did not change forks out and this happened, id fight with you.

Honestly dude, people hate the truth, but id bet top dollar the bearing race was not seated correctly and it was at an angle. While riding, and then the race got knocked and now there was slop causing the wear Amflow pointed out. It would have been torqued to specs, but that wont level a race not seated correctly. A few impacts while riding and once level there is play. I could be wrong. But those marks should not be there, and you have not explained properly why there even there.

 

[jam56]

Bearing race shows signs of moving, which means improper installation.

You had the forks changed and developed a problem exactly because it was done wrong. Thats not frame weakness. If you did not change forks out and this happened, id fight with you.

Honestly dude, people hate the truth, but id bet top dollar the bearing race was not seated correctly and it was at an angle. While riding, and then the race got knocked and now there was slop causing the wear Amflow pointed out. It would have been torqued to specs, but that wont level a race not seated correctly. A few impacts while riding and once level there is play. I could be wrong. But those marks should not be there, and you have not explained properly why there even there.

Don't make up things that didn't happen, please.
The fork was installed correctly, I drove 400km without any problems and gradually the crunch and then the backlash started to appear.

 

[Winford]

what else are you supposed to do besides torque the preload to spec?

Critical that the race is seated properly.

You would think this stuff is just plug n play. Its not always, and it only takes once and you fkd up someone's bike.

My Canyon has play where the angled spacer on top of the crown where it meets the bearing race. And you can see where its been moving around, despite me overtightening the bearings. Never had that on any other bike

 

[Winford]

the backlash started

How? nothing is cracked between where the two bearing races connect. The frame cracking will not cause backlash on that bearing races. But the picture shows backlash.

If you can explain how, id change my mind

Don't make up things that didn't happen, please.

That applies to you bud, it sucks you got a bad frame now. But magically the only part you touched went south.

Can you explain how that bearing race got loose from back n forth of the cracked frame?

 

[Winford]

but using a torque wrench alone isn't enough to check the preload on the headset.

Exactly.

Seen the star nut in the fork tube slip

Seen accidents cause this kind of frame damage too, but it does not explain the weird marks on CF where the race was moving around.

 

[jam56]

How? nothing is cracked between where the two bearing races connect. The frame cracking will not cause backlash on that bearing races. But the picture shows backlash.

If you can explain how, id change my mind





That applies to you bud, it sucks you got a bad frame now. But magically the only part you touched went south.

Can you explain how that bearing race got loose from back n forth of the cracked frame?

I assume the problem is cracks in the frame. Because of these cracks, the frame has lost its strength and there is play during loading.
I will be going to a bike shop today to have the frame, fork, and headset checked.

But I created a post as a protest and indignation at the response of support, where they clearly say that I myself am a fool.

If the fork had been installed incorrectly, the backlash problem would have occurred immediately and I would not have been able to ride 400,000 miles without problems. Just think about it...

And maybe I don't quite get my thoughts right in the text, my English is not too good)))

 

[Winford]

But I created a post as a protest

not why you create a post, and the shop you used may be guilty

I assume

Which means YOU are not answering my question either, why are their marks on the carbon fiber Amflow pointed out?

Cracks in the frame, have nothing to do with the marks Amflow pointed out. And you keep avoiding answering the direct easy question. Why?

The cracks you have are common when a bike is wrecked, we actually had a member drive his fork tube through the frame, much less a wreck would cause what you have.

 

[jam56]

Cracks in the frame, have nothing to do with the marks Amflow pointed out. And you keep avoiding answering the direct easy question. Why?

I'm not being evasive, I don't know what to answer you.
I have no idea what could have left those marks. They don't feel with your fingers, nothing is pressed in, it's smooth and even, it's the glare from the flash on the camera. I'll take better photos and video today. I also asked the guys from our club to check if they have similar marks.

 

[GodsTherapist]

my advice: only buy from authorized dealers!

 

[Sergey K]

my advice: only buy from authorized dealers!

He did just that. He just left for Russia later. I wonder how the situation will be resolved

 

[Plummet]

Hey, everybody.
I didn't want to make this post until the last moment, but amflow's attitude towards my problem really angered me.

The frame of my amflow has developed cracks! Crunching and grinding sounds gradually started coming out of the headset. Several times I reassembled everything, cleaned, lubricated, but the problem became more and more serious.

I contacted support, described the problem, sent photos and video. Their verdict was that it was my own fault, as I had replaced the stock fork on my bike with a different fork (fox 38 factory), and allegedly the fork had been replaced poorly.

The marks on the frame indicated by the support have occurred during use, as the headset backslides and a grinding sound appears.

I bought the bike on the official site in China through my friend and he shipped it to me in Russia.
There is no authorized amflow dealer in my country, I can only contact online support, but they don't want to help me.

If you were planning to buy this bike, think well whether it is worth it....

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

View attachment 164440 View attachment 164441

Is that recess some sort of knock block? Did you crash at any time thus potentially damaging the knock block?

How much extra travel did the 38 have? how heavy are you?

Those marks on the head tube do look suspect.

 

[Tony4wd]

The frame of my amflow has developed cracks

Thanks for posting about your problem - others can inspect their frames to look for cracks. Assuming it is a problem with the frame design it should start appearing on some other Amflows, whereupon you could revisit the warranty request. Otherwise you'll just need to put the bad experience behind you and move on.

 

[yorkshire89]

Is that recess some sort of knock block?

It does look like it. Amflow website shows a replacement bearing kit coming with a steerer limiter, but it doesn't seem to match, assume the headset comes with something else that bolts into the frame?

Amflow PL Steuersatz - AMFLOW Store

Experience 105 N•m of torque and a formidable 850 watts of peak power housed in a cutting-edge 19.2kg build. Amflow specializes in high-end electric mountain bikes, crafting revolutionary E-MTB experiences.

www.amflowbikes.com

This review mentions a headset cracking noise that may or may not be related...

Amflow PL Carbon Review - emtb-test.com

The DJI Avinox motor is great, but how capable is the Amflow PL Carbon Bike were he is speced? We test it on the Trails.

emtb-test.com

"the headset made loud cracking noises during the descent. We couldn’t figure out if this was due to the integrated steering limiter."

OP - Can we see some pics of the crown race and headset parts?
What did Amflow say about using the wrong fork? In another post you said you installed a 170mm fork. Amflow say this is fine to do

 

[dcxs]

My Amflow arrives in a few hours, will change the fork to Lyrik Ultimate. I usually just swap the crown race from the included fork, from there on its pretty straight forward. Anything I'm missing? Dont want to crack my frame

 

[jam56]

Took the bike apart at the bike shop today, removed the fork, bearings, inspected everything for bumps, cracks, jams - nothing!
Those marks that amflow support pointed out are the marks from the matrix when forming the frame, they are absolutely smooth and even, there is no step. I'm sure if you take your bike apart you will see exactly the same marks.

Have been looking for the cause of the grinding and found it - topcap!
It's bent, you can see it clearly in the video. And you can see the chafing.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

Rode 20km now over roots, rocks, jumps..... Not a peep.

The question on the subject of cracks in the frame remains unresolved. The response of amflow support has shocked me.
I will continue to communicate with them.

 

[Winford]

topcap!

And who was the last person to remove it ?

And the ding in the topcap would not cause any issues what so ever with bearings or frame.

Also it should have been noticed long before frame issues.

Have you had any crashes?

Im guessing you had play in bearing races and the stem cap which was bouncing around while riding like all the races while riding.

 

[Winford]

Just a side thought, not pointing fingers.

If you hit a bump hard enough and the press fit stem cap nut in the forks loosened up, you would get the marks you see in lower frame bearing seat, and stem cap. Or if the fork installer screwed up which probably is the case.

Bud changing a fork out is easy to do, I know no one that takes his bike to a shop for such an easy swap. That means you have no mechanical capacity to know how to judge this damage.

 

[jam56]

And who was the last person to remove it ?

And the ding in the topcap would not cause any issues what so ever with bearings or frame.

Also it should have been noticed long before frame issues.

Have you had any crashes?

Im guessing you had play in bearing races and the stem cap which was bouncing around while riding like all the races while riding.

There were no falls
The backlash was very slight, after tightening the bolt on the topcap it disappeared, but not for long.

But it had nothing to do with cracks.

 

[Winford]

The backlash was very slight

OK now we are getting somewhere, you admit there was backlash in the fork bearings after new fork was installed, but very slight. This would damage stem cap that was flopping around.

What caused this? The cracks in your frame in no way have a relationship that caused the backlash. Period

I am impartial, could care less one way or the other, BUT if you cannot convince me, you have no chance at all with Amflow at all.

 

[jam56]

OK now we are getting somewhere, you admit there was backlash in the fork bearings after new fork was installed, but very slight. This would damage stem cap that was flopping around.

What caused this? The cracks in your frame in no way have a relationship that caused the backlash. Period

I am impartial, could care less one way or the other, BUT if you cannot convince me, you have no chance at all with Amflow at all.

Not really... After installing the new fork there were no problems for a long time. But gradually they started to appear, as became clear due to the bent cover. Why and when it bent, I don't know and it's very strange.
And there is no way the bent cover and bearing play could have caused the cracks in the frame.

With the backlash, I found the problem and solved it. My concern now is the cracks, how and why did they appear and won't they get bigger? How dangerous is it to use a bike with these cracks?
I reported all this to amflow support yesterday and am waiting for their response.

 

[Astro66]

I think you need to modify your title to, "I replaced the forks, frame then cracked. Denied Warranty."

The problem with your title, is it feels like you are trying to paint Amflow poorly for those people who are headline readers. Then those that own Amflows, are not going to appreciate your situation and start from a point where you are viewed cautiously, when they read the full story..

Amflow have sold thousands of bikes with correctly fitted forks, that have thousands of km on them now, and as shown in the EMTB video. There are very few returns.

I don't want to take sides either. But everything points to an incorrect installation of the new forks. There are just too many people who have thousands of kms on the original forks, and had zero issues. I fully sympathise that there could have been an original manufacturing issue, and you would have had the same problem with the original forks. But that is a risk you take when you modify from the original bike.

I have replaced my rear wheel and handlebars. I do realize that any issue I have with my transmission, rear wheel mounting, or my stem. The finger will always be pointed at me. But those are items I can deal with easily myself.

But replacing high risk items that could damage the frame, motor or battery. I would have got the LBS where I bought the Amflow to replace them, to avoid any blame game issues. That is exactly why I didn't buy direct from Amflow. And I think that should be the message of this thread. And changing the title to reflect that, may see more helpful advice from Amflow owners.

 

[Winford]

After installing the new fork there were no problems for a long time

Understood, if a race was crooked or stem cap not seated properly, the bike would ride fine just like you did, before it slipped off causing the backlash.

Here is the kicker, you had something not properly installed, and then you had cracks. The cracks did not cause the backlash. Yes a loose fork tube can cause cracks

 

[jam56]

Guys, I agree and disagree with you at the same time

The ring on the fork was installed correctly and that's it, you can not even discuss it, it can not be put wrong, it is impossible, especially in the framework of the bike workshop, where these forks are changed 10 pieces a day.

I don't know what caused the cover to bend, but my suspicions are that this is what started the backlash and crunch in the steering column.

I don't know how long ago the cracks appeared, as I only discovered them a few days ago. And how critical they are, I don't know either.

In the end, I replaced the topcap, nothing crunches, squeaks, no play, drove more than 20km yesterday and complete silence.

I will change the thread title as soon as I get clear answers from support. I am waiting for a reply from them, they promised to reply within 1-2 days.