Well I have learned a lot from the discussion here on motor power output but I do wonder just how much of the technical insight given here will be of any interest to regulatory authorities.
Going back to the original EU regulations, they settled on 3 main controlling technical features that determined an EPAC..
1 Maximum assisted speed.....I dont see them changing that
2. Nominal motor rating of 250w. ......I suspect that may be reviewed given the advances in electric motor design and software control. It may prove irrelevant to regulate
3. Motor assist only when pedalling.......this is where I believe review is likely simply because I believe it assumed motor assist would increase proportionately to rider torque input. If however the motor's max power is delivered at very low rider torque input, the bike's behaviour becomes very different with greatly increased acceleration and potential control issues.
From a regulatory perspective I think the most likely changes will therefore be to specify both a max power output and a max power to rider input ratio that has to be proportionately graduated.
Maybe also a different set of regulations for heavier 3 wheeled bikes / cargo bikes.
....
E-bikes aren’t coming — they’re already here. In 2023, over 5.1 million of them were sold across Europe, with traditional bikes only just ahead at 6.6 million. In Germany, e-bikes actually overtook analogue bikes for the first time, grabbing more than half the market. This isn’t a trend anymore — it’s a takeover. And it’s transforming everything: how we ride, how bikes are built, and what the industry believes a bike should be.
Then came the curveball.
DJI — yes, the drone company — dropped a 1000-watt, 120Nm eMTB system with sleek integration, fast charging, and power to burn. The Avinox system didn’t just raise eyebrows; it kicked the industry’s front door in. Overnight, the usual suspects — Bosch, Shimano, Specialized — found themselves playing defence. Soon after, the eMTB elite huddled in a Think Tank and proposed something unthinkable just a year earlier: a self-imposed cap on motor output.
750 watts. That’s the new line in the dirt.
Is this really about protecting trails and riding responsibly? Or is it a well-dressed panic move from brands caught flat-footed by an outsider with better tech? In this piece, we dig into what the DJI Avinox launch really triggered — and why older high-powered motors like the Haibike Flyon and Sachs RS never got the same reaction.
Discussion thread for full article:
eBikes aren’t coming. They’re already here. In 2023, over 5.1 million of them were sold across Europe, with traditional bikes only just ahead at 6.6 million. In Germany, ebikes actually overtook analogue bikes for the first time, grabbing more...
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Yeah, the Think tank said "oh shit" ... lets make a law to kick DJI out of the market, by limiting to 750 watts .
WE can decide, what is "enough" for YOU.
This is completely ridiculous.
Dear ebike Market - I realize, you just got an ass kicking, but come on now. Get back up on your feet and fight, instead of reducing the capabilities of your opponent, to make it a "fair fight" . (That's bullshit) See how DJI just released a firmware update to in response .... near 1000 watts now on turbo.,.. that's an F**K You, to your "self imposed cap" DJI isn't standing down, and I don't blame them.
Power Limits (and laws) are meaningless, unless they can be enforced. In some places, this is no problem, but in others, it is...doesn't matter what the law is where I ride most often. A lot of the trails I ride are illegally frequented by MX riders, surons, etc....but the trail network is so big, no one cares, and good luck with enforcement, there is simply no chance.
There is plenty of space and trails, for all. But I think in some places, there definitely should be speed limits, power limits perhaps,...too many riders and people on the trails, for such machines. .... but NOT in all places and definitely not on private land.
What really gets me, is that Ya can't really tell people what to Buy and ride on private land, or how much power they can have on the trails MX riders use, right? (often Legal or not in some places)
I think High power motors never went anywhere historically due to size & weight...that and the battery. Remember those Bionix wheels....and the batteries are getting better.
But all this talk about Power "ratings" and limits is so interesting, (but maybe not well understood).
So Like How does a 250 watt "rated" motor, put out 750 watts continuously with a firmware update,
and does the DJI > 1000 watts peak?
What does "nominal" and "rating" mean, exactly?
Well, It could mean a lot of things, depending on heat dissipation, voltage applied, efficiency,...etc
The same motor can have multiple "ratings" and "nominal" or continuous is a suggestion with defined variables, not a technical limit.
And on top of that, motors and motor technology is all different, a motor just isn't "a motor" ...very little standardization for part of the industry, the motor manufacturer is basically the one defining what is "nominal" ...at some voltage applied, at some speed and torque... and that can be whatever they want it to be, .....until just before the copper in the motor winding starts to melt from thermal overload. Then you are screwed, and the motor is toast.
I see some testing at the wheel...which is the right way to look at the total output of the system, not just the motor.
So what if we say "Motors can only be 750 watts"
What about the efficiency of the gearing? So the same motor, with 2 different gear systems with different efficiencies, have 2 different outputs of power, at the end of the day, at the wheel.
What about heat dissipation...is this "rating" just in air, or mounted to some heat sink path?
What about .....a lot of things.
Changes things. See electric Motor "Ratings" can be "FUZZY" outside of hard mechanical and thermal limits, and even these things can change, especially with temperature.
So where is that STUPID 750 watt limit, "line in the dirt," the industry is taking about (to kick DJI out)?
Kung foo, my ass. DJI knows, some serious Kung fu, and it's got nothing to do with Greed. It all has to do, with FUN.
Is the power limit, On the motor output or the system output? And what motor are you talking about, what kind, what voltage applied, what speed and torque, what type of control, what are they calling "nominal,. and peak.
The power lines are curves, and peaks are relatively short, because as the motor heats up, the current needs to be reduced. That's why a motor might put out "peaks" of 750 watts...but that is not really continuous, it needs to cool down. Continuous means it can run at that point, 24 hours a day, which can be anything below the point at which it starts to fail.
True Peak power is pretty straight forward, can be defined for any motor, and will often NOT be limited by the motor, but rather the controller's currrent output capability. The actual intermittent peak power a motor can provide, is a function of the time it is provided. Higher power = less time at that power.
For example, the "peak," near stall torque of electric motors, is often massively higher than the nominal rating, depending on the type, and this also is a direct function of voltage applied. Simply Ohms Law, V = IR. Higher V for a given R, means higher I is possible, and vice versa. ...but if you get near true Peak torque of a motor....you've only got in the range of seconds of time, the motor is hot as hell, and the efficiency is terrible.
Now if you take all of this into account, and think about the fact, that I can hit the BOOST button on the DJI, and it will put out "peaks" of near 1000 watts (or whatever) for 30 seconds...and then I can hit it again, and again, and again....and again......Oh wait, I can hit it again..
This tells me that the true continuous capability (not "rating ") of the DJI is impressive.
With repeated boosts, I feel it pulling back a bit, but not much and again, Peak or intermittent capability, is most often defined in seconds, not minutes....if it was really near its "Peak"
Love seeing the change, but Yes, higher power is not for all riders, in all places.
Now if the battery could just get 5 lbs lighter, and provide 2000 wH.....man, that would be another new world.
I personally think about 1000 - 1500 watts peak, will end up the typical max in the future, for e bikes. After that, might as well not pedal, and get on a suron, etc.
Even though the BOOST is cool, I really never feel like I need it or crave it on the trails, unless I am passing my buddies riding anything else, uphill...that's fun.
