E-160 S MX mullet in XL & pedal strikes

[Kiwiscoot]

I have an E-160 S MX mullet with an XL frame and have way more pedal strikes than with my other bikes (2023 Giant Trance X2 29ER XL frame). I find it very disconcerting when I have a strike navigating any obstacle, causing me to loose momentum and concentration. I did not even ride a very technical trial last Saturday, rocks with a slope of 45deg and about 0.5 to 1.5m high and I go slow.

This is with the bike setup to RockShox recommendation suspension pressures for a 92kg rider but now I've gone 3 PSI more in both my shocks to hopefully raise the BB a bit.. Sag now about 27% on rear. Not tested it on the same trial yet.

Going to fit 155mm crank arms and convert to a full 29er hoping that will solve the issue or at least make for way less strikes.

Anyone with experience of pedal strikes on this bike? What did you do to fix it? Would appreciate your experience.

 

[Astro66]

Pedal Strikes will be directly impacted by bottom bracket height, crank length and pedal thickness. It can also be affected by suspension setup. Look at rebound. If the suspension is taking too long to return. It will increase the chance of pedal strike as your BB remains lower longer.

I love technical climbing and hate pedal strike. So I run 150mm cranks and even remove the SPD clips off one side of my pedal, to give more clearance under them.

 

[mooby77]

I have the E160- RS-MX bike , but in medium , fitted 150mm cranks also as was suffering the same , with that change made alot of difference, Keep it as a mullet and all good now, rebound I run at 6-7 clicks , tyre pressures , run 26 rear , 23 front most of the time.

 

[mild_bore]

I have a '23 E160RSX and love the planted feel of the low BB but pedal strikes are the down side. I mainly ride mine in the Peaks so on rocky terrain and initially pedal strikes were a big thing, but find that you adjust and I don't seem to get anywhere near as many now. Putting a 29" back wheel will help and you can also put the bike in the 'high' position. I run 155mm cranks and low profile pedals too

 

[Kiwiscoot]

Thanks for all the replies. Good points raised and some things to check.

Now I think I should have got the 150mm cranks, but I'll see how the 155s work out as I have them now.

Astro66 - that is a good point you raised about the suspension setup. I am pretty new to suspension as I only got my first full suspension mtb two years ago - Giant Trance X2 and the suspension setup from the shop was pretty well done for me, it felt plush but lively too so I did not mess with it. On the E-160 the suspension feels "wooden" with the factory RockShox setup per Trialhead app as far as pressure & rebound goes. It does makes sense to set the suspension up to return asap from a compression.

I will check my pedals as I have no idea what profile they have, low or not. And I will need to work on my technique. I could not even clear a wooden log that was about 2cm higher than the bottom bracket the other day. The bike just did not want to pop which was probably the rebound setting.

 

[Plummet]

347mm bb height is fine. Check that you can run 29 if its a mullet. It could be a different rear end not designed for 29.

i agree with other slap some 150 cranks on and you will be fine.

Of course, there is a re-calibration required going to longer/lower/slacker geo.
If you lift the bb by putting a 29 on there, you will also steepen the head angle and the combined combo will = worse downhill performance.

Best it to sort it with shorter cranks and technique change.

 

[Kiwiscoot]

Plummer, the E-160 comes in either a full 29er or as a mullet from the factory depending on wheels and rear suspension link fitted. All needed is the link that I have to change to make it a 29er and the wheel.
The headtube angle is the same in the low position for mullet and 29er but I will run the link in the high position which will be 0.5deg steeper from what I gather. I like trial and want to do technical riding so that should make it better at climbing and overall for that or so me hopes. Not into downhill really, at 63yo I fall like a sack of potatoes without any finesse and are bound to break bones. The mullet was the only one available else I would have gone for the 29er.

 

[Plummet]

Plummer, the E-160 comes in either a full 29er or as a mullet from the factory depending on wheels and rear suspension link fitted. All needed is the link that I have to change to make it a 29er and the wheel.
The headtube angle is the same in the low position for mullet and 29er but I will run the link in the high position which will be 0.5deg steeper from what I gather. I like trial and want to do technical riding so that should make it better at climbing and overall for that or so me hopes. Not into downhill really, at 63yo I fall like a sack of potatoes without any finesse and are bound to break bones. The mullet was the only one available else I would have gone for the 29er.

The link that corrects the Geo will drop the bb back to close to what you already have. So.... pedal strikes will remain similar
In fact the larger sizes that come in 29 show a 340mm bb which is actually lower....... wierd by true.

Shorter cranks and technicque change is the solution. A different wheel size in this instance will give you a change in ride feel, but not solve the root cause. I'm on the fence re - 29 being better for technical climbing. I have mates with similar motor systems both on mullet and 29 and our technical climbing is pretty much the same. The 29er rolls over square edges better but the 27.5 is more positionable. I think it evens out to be half of one and 6 of the other.

But dont let that stop you changing wheel size. If you dont ride steep downs and or hammer tech then full 29er is probably the go.

 

[Kiwiscoot]

Yeah I do agree. It will be my lack of technique, but it's hard to work on that with the pedal strikes knocking the confidence and concentration. Luckily I have Bottle Lake Forest right here at my back door with lots of logs to practice on, not so hard on everything like rocks.
My Giant Trance X2 XL 29er seems to have about the same BB height but with 165mm cranks on pedal strike has not been an issue. It has a Cyc Photon motor on. My thought was that the 29 wheels just roll over easy and helps my lack of skill. Tho I think my E-160's suspension needs to be dialled in better (over damped), whereas the Trance's suspension feels way more responsive in absorbing and recovering.
All this mullet vs 29er might be just psychological on my part as I have been on 29ers since 2013. At least the 29er back wheel will solve the psychological part. lol

""For those who want the highest BB on their 29er, the Shape.It Link (62-66mm) gives the same high position of the Shape.It Link (58-62mm) while offering a ‘higher still’ position." This is from the Whyte site, so I am hoping the "higher still" position with the Shape.It Link (62-66mm) will give me more clearance.
I have not a look at my pedals, but hey that is probably only 5mm(??) more clearance for slimline pedals(if that), so it all gets pretty much ridiculous nit-picking.

 

[Plummet]

Yeah I do agree. It will be my lack of technique, but it's hard to work on that with the pedal strikes knocking the confidence and concentration. Luckily I have Bottle Lake Forest right here at my back door with lots of logs to practice on, not so hard on everything like rocks.
My Giant Trance X2 XL 29er seems to have about the same BB height but with 165mm cranks on pedal strike has not been an issue. It has a Cyc Photon motor on. My thought was that the 29 wheels just roll over easy and helps my lack of skill. Tho I think my E-160's suspension needs to be dialled in better (over damped), whereas the Trance's suspension feels way more responsive in absorbing and recovering.
All this mullet vs 29er might be just psychological on my part as I have been on 29ers since 2013. At least the 29er back wheel will solve the psychological part. lol

""For those who want the highest BB on their 29er, the Shape.It Link (62-66mm) gives the same high position of the Shape.It Link (58-62mm) while offering a ‘higher still’ position." This is from the Whyte site, so I am hoping the "higher still" position with the Shape.It Link (62-66mm) will give me more clearance.
I have not a look at my pedals, but hey that is probably only 5mm(??) more clearance for slimline pedals(if that), so it all gets pretty much ridiculous nit-picking.

Every little bit counts said the old lady as she peed in the sea!...

I have 150 cranks and slimline pedal.. they are the business. I refuse to 29 rear though. But i chase the gnarly and the steep. So mullet wins the steep tech race with less ball bag grind

 

[Kiwiscoot]

what size back tire do you run? 2.6 or 2.8??

what cranks did you use?
I went cheap with these in 155mm, tho I have not fitted them yet.

FSA Bosch G4 E-Bike Cranks

FSA Bosch G4 E-Bike Cranks at Evo Cycles. FSA E-bike forged cranksets for the Bosch system.Forged AL6061/T6 crank armsCrank arm without spiderAnodized blackLaser graphicsLength - 160mm - 175mmBB - ISIS Drive

www.evocycles.co.nz

 

[Plummet]

what size back tire do you run? 2.6 or 2.8??

what cranks did you use?
I went cheap with these in 155mm, tho I have not fitted them yet.

FSA Bosch G4 E-Bike Cranks

FSA Bosch G4 E-Bike Cranks at Evo Cycles. FSA E-bike forged cranksets for the Bosch system.Forged AL6061/T6 crank armsCrank arm without spiderAnodized blackLaser graphicsLength - 160mm - 175mmBB - ISIS Drive

www.evocycles.co.nz

The bike came with gx cranks so that's what I kept on the bike.
Rear tire is 2.4 DHR DD max terra, But i go through rear tires fast, so can be anywhere from 2.4 to 2.8 depending on the deals on offer.

 

[Kiwiscoot]

Thanks for all the good suggestions. I set the back rebound to be a bit more "lively" and that felt way better. I also adjusted the rear for 27% sag instead of 30%. Strangely that felt better too as if the suspension was way more "reactive"- for lack of a better word.

Well she ain't no mullet anymore. Fitted the new WTB 29er rear wheel last night and left the 65-69 link in the suspension as an experiment. Whyte recommends the 62-66 link with the 29er rear wheel to keep geometry the same. The first short ride last night was a pleasant surprise. It felt way more like a trial bike now. I am no down hiller and really only ride trial. My guess is the longer link and 29er wheel steepened the head tube angle another 0.6deg and the seat tube angle.

Testing it over some traffic island with high curbs felt good. No more pedal strikes with the 155mm cranks and no angst about hitting the bottom of the motor. The BB seems to be about 2 cm higher, going by that I had to lower the seat post by about 2-3cm. Will be interesting to see how it climbs now. I will ride it like this for a while and see. I still have the 62-66mm link to set it to the factory geometry should I wish to do that.