Thinking of buying an EP801 bike? Read this
- Thread starter MOG
- Start date
I don't know ? i havn't smartphone (and e-tube off course), i use E-tube pro with shimano interface and yes the E295 are registred (and can't be cancelled, unlike all others errors)
MOG
Active member
- Thread starter
- #66
Well since I got my motor back from Shimano (along with a letter from them saying they will honour the motor warranty even though it now has a permenant E299 code stored on it) I have been running the original wheel and brake disk/magent that it shipped with. Touch wood I have had no error codes since. But looking at the market place it seems Shimano are losing ground all over the EMTB world as brands switch away from their motors. Seems overzealous anti tamper software and a failure to have any seviceabilty really isn't the way to go after all. It is not like they are even the most pwerful or quietest motor.
I just fitted a new wheel by fitting a Shimano MT510B Microspline Hub to my EP801., because I was changing my gears from 9 speed Cues, to 12 speed Di2 XT gears. It had a MT400B HG hub as the original hub. These are my observations.
1) I used all the original components when building the wheel, including the spokes, Centrelock rotor and centrelock mounted magnet. But it was a Tektro centrelock magnet fitted by the manufacturer. I did use a new DT Swiss Alloy rim.
2) The Shimano MT510B Microspline Hub from Shimano, was poorly greased. Both the cage bearing and pawls were not greased well. It was quite noisy.
3) I packed the cage bearings with bearing grease. I used a very light silicone grease on the pawls. I then tensioned the cage bearings myself.
4) After doing this. I don't think I've had a 12 speed hub that has run quieter and runs so freely. I am very impressed with the hub after I serviced it from new. In future I will always grease any Shimano Hub I buy, before using it.
5) I have put 500km on the bike. Zero errors and the hub is still super quiet. This include a very long 200km ride through the Alpine regions in Australia.
My conclusion.
You can use any wheelset with an EP801. But if you get even one E295 error after changing to a Non-Shimano hub. I would switch to Shimano hubs. At least you can plead to Shimano that you used the original, or Shimano components, if you ever get the dreaded E299 error.
For me. I never use Shimano Hubs on any of my Non-Shimano Motored EMTBs. I have a Bafang and DJI ordered. For these bikes I am using Koozer sealed bearing hubs. I have used these hubs for 10 years. I find them super reliable, and super cost effective. I always fit these hubs, and DT Swiss Alloy rims. I always build my own wheels.
But I will always continue to use the original hubs or magnets, or replace with Shimano hubs or magnets, on my EP801, or EP6. Though I sold my EP6. I just don't need the issues of the stupid Shimano Software, picking up different speed pick up signals.
1) I used all the original components when building the wheel, including the spokes, Centrelock rotor and centrelock mounted magnet. But it was a Tektro centrelock magnet fitted by the manufacturer. I did use a new DT Swiss Alloy rim.
2) The Shimano MT510B Microspline Hub from Shimano, was poorly greased. Both the cage bearing and pawls were not greased well. It was quite noisy.
3) I packed the cage bearings with bearing grease. I used a very light silicone grease on the pawls. I then tensioned the cage bearings myself.
4) After doing this. I don't think I've had a 12 speed hub that has run quieter and runs so freely. I am very impressed with the hub after I serviced it from new. In future I will always grease any Shimano Hub I buy, before using it.
5) I have put 500km on the bike. Zero errors and the hub is still super quiet. This include a very long 200km ride through the Alpine regions in Australia.
My conclusion.
You can use any wheelset with an EP801. But if you get even one E295 error after changing to a Non-Shimano hub. I would switch to Shimano hubs. At least you can plead to Shimano that you used the original, or Shimano components, if you ever get the dreaded E299 error.
For me. I never use Shimano Hubs on any of my Non-Shimano Motored EMTBs. I have a Bafang and DJI ordered. For these bikes I am using Koozer sealed bearing hubs. I have used these hubs for 10 years. I find them super reliable, and super cost effective. I always fit these hubs, and DT Swiss Alloy rims. I always build my own wheels.
But I will always continue to use the original hubs or magnets, or replace with Shimano hubs or magnets, on my EP801, or EP6. Though I sold my EP6. I just don't need the issues of the stupid Shimano Software, picking up different speed pick up signals.
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MOG
Active member
- Thread starter
- #68
My bike came with Hunt wheels as standard from new with Hayes disks and magnets. I don't think it matters what wheels and disks the bike has from new if it is set up with those components. The problem seems to arrise if you fit anything other than what was set up by the manufacturer as it would appear that even a 0.5mm difference in airgap/lateral positioning to the magnet must be enough to trigger the anti tamper software
What about my YT Decoy Max? As standard it comes with Crank Bros hubs that do not have Shimano centrelock hubs, note does my wife’s Decoy, that has Ringle hubs, again with a 6 bolt pattern. In fact none of the YT e-bikes have Shimano hubs or centrelock.
The E295 error is linked to the modification of transmission (wheel diameter, Nb of teethes), not the magnet of the speed sensor or the brand of the hub.
Why i can affirm that ? beacuse i will had no more error after parameters adjust, Without any modification of any replaced items. And the adjust done are:
Wheel diameter (for the 27.5)
Nb of speed (for the 11V)
Nb of teeths plate (for the 32)
Nb of teeths casette (11/52)
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What about when you upgrade your brakes and need to fit thicker rotors, especially as lots of brakes are now coming with 2mm+ rotors? Will this ruin your bike?
It was discussed in length on the German Pedelec forum by Peter Mayer who writes de-restriction software for the EP801. It's caused by pulses from the magnet and sensor alignment producing double pulses.
The magnets magnetic field cannot be interfered with by any other metal components, otherwise you can get double pulses leading to the Shimano Software thinking you are tampering with the speed signal.
Shimano warn you with the E295 error. But if it continues to happen, you'll get the E299 error and the motor is locked, as Shimano believe you are trying to de-restrict the bike.
Manufacturers are working with Shimano to ensure their systems don't produce the double pulse. So as I said. You can use any wheel set. But if you modify your wheelset, there is a chance that the magnetic field from the magnet is interfered with.
That is why I recommend using identical original components, or Shimano hubs, rotors and magnets. I have stuck with Shimano hubs and the original Tektro rotors and magnets when I have changed my wheels. But I build my own wheels. So I can do whatever combination I want.
When I had an EP6 motor. It was all Shimano wheelset, so when I changed the wheel. I stuck with all Shimano components.
A Shimano Hub, Magnet and Rotor are designed so their alignment always produces clean pulses. Other brands allow for mounting that can produce clean pulses. But as explained by Peter Mayer above. They can also be mounted in a way, where the magnetic field is interfered with by the surrounding metal.
Shimano state in their magnet mounting, that the magnet must have free air around it. This includes behind the magnet. So if the brand of hub, rotor and magnet you are using doesn't allow for this, or you mount it, not in free air. You can get speed sensor signal issues. Leading to E295 and E299 errors.
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So here is the Shimano Rotor and Magnet fitting. The magnet clips through the holes in the rotor. So it's not possible to mount it incorrectly and have metal components interfering with the magnetic field. Hence why I recommend Shimano Centrelock hub, rotor and magnet, if you are getting E295 errors with the EP801 or EP6 motor.
I have marked the magnet in yellow.
I have marked the magnet in yellow.
The thread was started, proposing that the EP801 is a problem. What I am showing is that the motor is not the problem. The problem occurs when you modify the rear wheel. So I propose how you can still change the rear wheel with zero risk of bricking your motor.
If you are confident you can modify the rear wheel and not brick your motor, because you have designed a wheel that doesn't produce magnetic interference to your speed pick up. Then install whatever you want. But if you want to change your rear wheel and are not that electrically and mechanically minded. Then using all Shimano centrelock hub, rotor and magnet should insure a trouble free conversion. I have clearly shown why above.
But it's 100% up to the individual, their installation skills, and their appetite for risk. I'm just proposing a solution.
I was just questioning how numerous bike companies can spec and sell bikes without a Shimano hub or centrelock rotors without causing the problem. By your reckoning you’re also suggesting that people can’t upgrade or change the brand of their brakes which seems preposterous in this day and age.
I’m not saying what you’ve done is wrong. And of course Shimano is going to suggest that you should only use Shimano products, it’s what companies do to avoid any blowback on them if someone buys a dodgy Aliexpress POS hub/magnet, etc.
This is picture of 6-bolt Galfer disc from my ep801 bullit. In the middle is Specialized CL lockring with magnet from my Levo2 too. I used that with Shimano rotors from Levo, on this bike. As you can see from Galfer disc, there’s hole close to the Specialized magnet and that’s where you put Galfer magnet. I just took it out because I have new rotors coming. You see that those magnets are not even close to each other or alligned and still, everything works. And bike came with Sram rotors and own magnet. So explain to me, how this works without problem if your theory is right? Just to clafiry, the CL magnet/lockring is to show where the magnet is positioned compared to 6-bolt disc magnet…
2mm is the only way to go if you ride a lot.
I have that same magnet adaptor. I dont use it.
I switched to Sram Hs2 220 rotors, and just jb welded the shimano magnet and mount to the Sram rotor. Been working perfectly in the same spot as Shimanos rotors
To finalze story of the shimano hub. I had riding my bike since 6 months (2 or 3 time by week) after SCOR have parametred my current transmission (27.5, 11V, 32x52) and since this never more err295 (or any other errors), i have used several various hub (DT, ZZTO, etc..), various magnet (centerlock, 6T). I affirm that hub brand and magnet (just necessary that it work to provide speed) have nothing relation with err295. The only disturb (bigger), is that if i would use another transmission, i will need to request another parameters from SCOR. May be ? because i have noted something. e-tube have performed an update and now i cant see the parameters who i can't adjust. May be shimano have removed all of this mistakes ? i don't know, nothing explaination. Somebody would test transmission modifications to see if it still blocking the motor ? 
