winters3
Member
The Marketing is clever they dont let the SL market dye. You can turn it like you want, there is no way to convert it to a proper Sl. i just read the German Magazine E-Mountainbike review Gen4 Levo they say :
Levo Gen 4 Specialized Gen 4 Levo - Official Thread
- Thread starter Rob Rides EMTB
- Start date
robikinkela
Active member
So at this rate the gen. 5 will have 130Nm of torque with a 1000W/h battery and will weigh 28kg. I don't like all this.
I'd like to see a non-sponsored comparison video between this, the Vala and the Amflow.
Especially if the Vala gets an update with regard to output from the Gen 5 Bosch.
Especially if the Vala gets an update with regard to output from the Gen 5 Bosch.
torabora851
Member
Why a side battery hatch? I’m not a fan of that placement—I got rid of my Trek Rail because of it; it rattled like a bucket of bolts. Plus, the battery sits higher, which raises the center of mass. I think that’s part of why the Rail feels sluggish compared to the old Levo. On top of that, I feel like this kind of battery placement also compromises frame strength. And please don’t tell me the motor clunks like a Bosch on the downhills.
Feels like everything I didn’t like about the Rail has made its way into the new Levo.
Feels like everything I didn’t like about the Rail has made its way into the new Levo.
On all the videos I have seen, the product manager from Specialized has stated that the structural inegrity is better with a side hatch.
Stonger, to the point it can be ridden without a battery.
torabora851
Member
How can making a large hole in the side of the downtube possibly increase structural integrity?
Removing material from a high-stress area like the downtube typically weakens a structure—not strengthens it. Even if Specialized reinforced the area with additional carbon or structural inserts, that’s compensating for a loss, not improving beyond a fully intact frame.
That said, the strength of the frame isn’t even my biggest issue with the new design. What I don’t get is why they went this direction at all. I don’t remember anyone complaining that the bottom-load battery was difficult to remove.
Meanwhile, you just have to look at the Rail thread to see how many people are frustrated with the side hatch approach—rattles, alignment problems. Why switch to a system that introduces new potential failure points and user complaints when the old one was simple and worked well?"
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I interpreted the comment as meaning side hole vs front hole would. Not as opposed to no hole.
Greeno
Active member
Looking at some of the specs I got a few observations between the gen 3/4.
Gen 3 Gen 4
Voltage: 36 (10s/4p) 50.96 (14s/4p) I’m guessing
Wattage: 700 840. 140w more
Amphours: 19 15.99 3.01ahr less
Weight: 3.6kg/7.9lbs. 4.4kg/9.7lbs 1.8lbs more
Dimensions: 23”x 3” x 2” 16”x 3.3” x 2.7”. 7” shorter so less weight up top
Charge time: [email protected] hrs. eco- [email protected]/ standard- [email protected]
Fast- [email protected] hrs
The downtube on my Gen 3 is 3.5” wide and 2.75” thick.
Not sure what the new downtube dims are.
If your wanting to swap out battery’s then this is a win as far as removing and popping in a different battery or removing to charge indoors in cold weather.
I thought that I would do that when I got this bike.
It came with the 700w battery and I purchased another 500w for a backup or spare.
Had it for 10 months and never used it once. Just sold it last week.
Luckily I live in a temperate climate and really never need to remove my battery.
Having a total possible capacity of 1120w is nice.
I thought I was stylin with my 700w and 252w booster.
Having the option to go from class 1-3 is nice as well.
Otherwise it would have cost ya 2 bills or a bit more if and when they make a deristrictor for the gen4 and you won’t have to worry about any voided warrentys.
The Apple tracking feature is nice too.
Locking up your bike and having your battery vulnerable to being lifted and having the tool to do it with right inside your stem see san odd feature to offer.
Still having a wired controller pad is disappointing especially if you want a cleaner look sans cables and going axs on the rear and seatpost.
Can’t remember who they are but one of the brake manufacturers lead their hydro cables close to the bars so you could have a stealthy look and not have them swinging out front.
All the other stuff is wireless now why not that.
Zero cables at the front, that would be revolutionary.
Have‘ t really dove into all the reviews yet. Watched a couple but they were all positive, Rob, Sam.
I know you guys have had the bikes for a bit so…
Riding the bike without the battery, who does that? Structural integrity is better with 25% of the downtube missing or the small opening at the bottom? I would have to see the data on that call.
I get it you don’t want to say the bride has a big -ss on her wedding day but it seems like a lot of guys on here want to get hitched too, you know what I mean, and giving the bad with the good is the proper way to roll it out I would think.
Pfhh who the hell am I, keepin my Gen 3 until something goes sideways.
Carry on.
Gen 3 Gen 4
Voltage: 36 (10s/4p) 50.96 (14s/4p) I’m guessing
Wattage: 700 840. 140w more
Amphours: 19 15.99 3.01ahr less
Weight: 3.6kg/7.9lbs. 4.4kg/9.7lbs 1.8lbs more
Dimensions: 23”x 3” x 2” 16”x 3.3” x 2.7”. 7” shorter so less weight up top
Charge time: [email protected] hrs. eco- [email protected]/ standard- [email protected]
Fast- [email protected] hrs
The downtube on my Gen 3 is 3.5” wide and 2.75” thick.
Not sure what the new downtube dims are.
If your wanting to swap out battery’s then this is a win as far as removing and popping in a different battery or removing to charge indoors in cold weather.
I thought that I would do that when I got this bike.
It came with the 700w battery and I purchased another 500w for a backup or spare.
Had it for 10 months and never used it once. Just sold it last week.
Luckily I live in a temperate climate and really never need to remove my battery.
Having a total possible capacity of 1120w is nice.
I thought I was stylin with my 700w and 252w booster.
Having the option to go from class 1-3 is nice as well.
Otherwise it would have cost ya 2 bills or a bit more if and when they make a deristrictor for the gen4 and you won’t have to worry about any voided warrentys.
The Apple tracking feature is nice too.
Locking up your bike and having your battery vulnerable to being lifted and having the tool to do it with right inside your stem see san odd feature to offer.
Still having a wired controller pad is disappointing especially if you want a cleaner look sans cables and going axs on the rear and seatpost.
Can’t remember who they are but one of the brake manufacturers lead their hydro cables close to the bars so you could have a stealthy look and not have them swinging out front.
All the other stuff is wireless now why not that.
Zero cables at the front, that would be revolutionary.
Have‘ t really dove into all the reviews yet. Watched a couple but they were all positive, Rob, Sam.
I know you guys have had the bikes for a bit so…
Riding the bike without the battery, who does that? Structural integrity is better with 25% of the downtube missing or the small opening at the bottom? I would have to see the data on that call.
I get it you don’t want to say the bride has a big -ss on her wedding day but it seems like a lot of guys on here want to get hitched too, you know what I mean, and giving the bad with the good is the proper way to roll it out I would think.
Pfhh who the hell am I, keepin my Gen 3 until something goes sideways.
Carry on.
DirkWisely
Well-known member
I feel like I haven't seen a real review until someone mentions the DJI in the review. As someone actually shopping for a bike, I think value for money is an important part of the discussion. How much spec do you get for your dollar between the various Levo levels? Is the Levo better/worse than an Amflow, and if better, is it enough to justify the price premium?
I'm sure I'd be happy with the Levo, but I'm not sure I'd be happy with the amount I paid.
I'm sure I'd be happy with the Levo, but I'm not sure I'd be happy with the amount I paid.
That’s all I rode in on my Gen 3. Usually 70-90%
I stopped by the local shop to see the gen 4 today and was disappointed at the look. The down tube is super fat and square and the lack of labeling on the bike made it look super plain. The Vala looks like a super model in comparison. Performance wise I’m sure it’s good and better in some areas but the extra weight and look are a step backwards in those categories.
That's what's cool
ricko
Member
I had a Rail that was replaced by a newer higher spec model due to the issues you allude to. Constant loss off power over high frequency bumps. So many attempts at fixing by LBS, Bosch and Trek including new battery they eventually just replaced the whole bike.
My take is the issue was not the side loading but the keyed lock, that was an answer to a question no-one asked.
The new Rail thus far is without issue as it is bolted in, in a similar fashion to the new Levo.
I quite like the internal SWAT storage in my new Gen 4 Pro as I like a clean looking bike.
I'll update if any issues pop up for me
The battery is shorter, but now sits much higher and it's a bit heavier, so center of gravity may not be that different compared to Gen3 ...
Amount on juice derailleur need compared to motor is marginal so I think there will be no problem for derailleur (and TCU) to still work while motor support will cut off when you run out of juice ...
Specialized is clearly aiming at the “Terry from finance” sector as mentioned in their release video.
Their strategy feels a bit myopic and no doubt they will have to discount these bikes at some point or they will only be selling to a very thin and minted fan base.
Key selling point: more powerful motor at the cost of weight.
Do we really need that?
Emtbs can’t really evolve too much beyond a built in gearbox.
They could at least have changed the travel and made it a bit more aggressive but maybe that would scare Terry from finance.
Their strategy feels a bit myopic and no doubt they will have to discount these bikes at some point or they will only be selling to a very thin and minted fan base.
Key selling point: more powerful motor at the cost of weight.
Do we really need that?
Emtbs can’t really evolve too much beyond a built in gearbox.
They could at least have changed the travel and made it a bit more aggressive but maybe that would scare Terry from finance.
Greeno
Active member
Post #106 true the battery does sit higher when referenced to the motor but looking at the side mount profile and having the swat storage above it looks like the battery top overall sits about 3” lower than my 700w. Heavier and wider for sure.
My battery 700w /500w use the same casing and extends up inside the downtube to almost the top where it connects to the top tube.
I did watch the loam wolf video and the spec. rep said that the boost battery has 14 cells so given that info I think they are using the latest Samsung or LG 21700 cells. If there using those for the boost their using them for the mains too.
Boost battery 280w 14s/1p 5.3ahr per cell.
Main battery 840w. 14s/3p 5.3ahr per cel 840w ÷ 52v = 16.15 ahr ÷ 3 = 5.3ahr rating
My 700w battery used 10s/4p = 40 cells
New 840w battery uses. 14s/3p = 42 cells
So by using the latest greatest cell availible you gain 140gr of weight which is about 5% battery weight and you gain 17% more wattage.
Pretty good trade off.
Oh and the rep did confirm that if your using the main battery and it goes dead the shifter would still have some juice left to allow shifting, didn’t say for how long though but that’s something.
Going to bed now.
My battery 700w /500w use the same casing and extends up inside the downtube to almost the top where it connects to the top tube.
I did watch the loam wolf video and the spec. rep said that the boost battery has 14 cells so given that info I think they are using the latest Samsung or LG 21700 cells. If there using those for the boost their using them for the mains too.
Boost battery 280w 14s/1p 5.3ahr per cell.
Main battery 840w. 14s/3p 5.3ahr per cel 840w ÷ 52v = 16.15 ahr ÷ 3 = 5.3ahr rating
My 700w battery used 10s/4p = 40 cells
New 840w battery uses. 14s/3p = 42 cells
So by using the latest greatest cell availible you gain 140gr of weight which is about 5% battery weight and you gain 17% more wattage.
Pretty good trade off.
Oh and the rep did confirm that if your using the main battery and it goes dead the shifter would still have some juice left to allow shifting, didn’t say for how long though but that’s something.
Going to bed now.
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Once all the fuss has settled down, people will realise this is a great bike for sure.
The paint schemes look amazing, the motor looks like a decent step forward and it’s a nicer ride than the last one.
The S-Works looks great and has a fast charger and all the power.
All the dentists/Docs will buy an S-Works asap.
Then, all the people that really buy bikes will start to realise it’s not that much different to their Gen3, components are mostly the same, no extra range, and it achieves exactly the same experience as their current bike but to swap to a middle of the road Gen4 is going to cost several $k they will hold off.
Or maybe they will turn to another brand, just to be different.
The paint schemes look amazing, the motor looks like a decent step forward and it’s a nicer ride than the last one.
The S-Works looks great and has a fast charger and all the power.
All the dentists/Docs will buy an S-Works asap.
Then, all the people that really buy bikes will start to realise it’s not that much different to their Gen3, components are mostly the same, no extra range, and it achieves exactly the same experience as their current bike but to swap to a middle of the road Gen4 is going to cost several $k they will hold off.
Or maybe they will turn to another brand, just to be different.
zerofunds
Member
Will this have more or less range than the gen 3?
TheKaiser
Active member
I know there have been a few other answers to your question, but they were either vague or incomplete. To answer you fully, my understanding is that if you "kill" the Levo battery, to the point that your Levo top tube display won't even turn on, then you will also lose your derailleur shifting capacity (assuming you have not retrofitted a separate AXS derailleur battery). Having said that, my understanding is that the system is configured to cut motor power before the main bike battery is fully drained, so that there is a small amount of juice in reserve to run the top tube display, and the derailleur. The amount of juice required to run the display and derailleur is pretty trivial compared to the motor, so in that scenario, you are likely to be able to ride out of the woods without a loss of shifting. If, on the other hand, you had a main battery/electronics failure, or if you tried to do a purely leg powered ride without any substantial main battery charge, then you might exhaust the reserve capacity of the battery and be left in single speed mode.
TheKaiser
Active member
Hey man, some of us like a juicy "big -ss"!
Tim1023
Well-known member
Two things related to me also using my Levo to commute to the office:
1. Controversial point here: I'd actually want to have a key to get the battery out. I've already had one Levo stolen from outside my office. With just needing an allen key, some little shit could easily steal the battery. They break bikes up for the parts anyway.
2. The Find My feature is a great idea. Shame that it's just for isheep and not Android users (more popular in Europe). As if they thought that many of their customers paid over the odds just for the brand...
1. Controversial point here: I'd actually want to have a key to get the battery out. I've already had one Levo stolen from outside my office. With just needing an allen key, some little shit could easily steal the battery. They break bikes up for the parts anyway.
2. The Find My feature is a great idea. Shame that it's just for isheep and not Android users (more popular in Europe). As if they thought that many of their customers paid over the odds just for the brand...
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Actually some components are much better, what always discouraged me from buying Gen 3 Pro or S works (from my current setup) was leaky X2 shock, Code brakes, Grid Trail casing (paper thin casing with no sidewall support) etc.. Traverse HD wheelset is also really good, not so harsh than older carbon wheels and for me so far indestructible, 155 mm cranks are good bonus.
Aside from price difference Gen 4 vs discounted Gen 3, Gen 4 higher models are very well packed out of the box, the rest is about preferences (weight, battery capacity, price...)
Yamaha had to have really good insider information to pull out of the American market on time and at the same time buying Brose.
The alloy versions are usually cca 1kg heavier, and the 600Wh is 1kg lighter, so weight wise you are looking at cca the same numbers, prices probably acceptable.
Why don't they offer the frameset with a 600Wh pack, that would imo be a seller.
Yes……I see your POV.
Alternatively you could spend £$€1k and change all of your list on your G3 (except the wheels) as opposed to the several thousands you would need to buy an Gen4.
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Yes, when buying it would be nice to choose what you prefer, 600Wh or 840Wh..Why don't they offer the frameset with a 600Wh pack, that would imo be a seller.
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