Voima Sizing Questions/Views/Opinions

[Paul Mac]

Hi all

struggling to choose between k1 and k2.
5 foot 8.
29 inch inseam.
also. According to seat post calculator. Says I can only fit a 125. This seems very short.
anyone running a longer post over and above what the calc suggested

Are you measuring inseam to the floor in bare feet with the measure pushed up firmly using the spine of a book to push up?
I'm 5'9" with 32 inch inseam if measured as above.
I tried a 170 mm dropper in the Voima and still had about 15mm of adjustment.

 

[Nathan79]

Ah. Just tried book method. Measures 31 inch.
what size did you go with
k1 or 2

 

[Paul Mac]

Ah. Just tried book method. Measures 31 inch.
what size did you go with
k1 or 2

Still seesawing between the two, but at this point think it will be the K1.
Looking at all the geo numbers the K1 is bigger than my 22 medium Rail in every dimension other than top tube length, and that's purely down to the steep seat tube angle.

 

[Onetime]

Hi all

struggling to choose between k1 and k2.
5 foot 8.
29 inch inseam.
also. According to seat post calculator. Says I can only fit a 125. This seems very short.
anyone running a longer post over and above what the calc suggested.?

I’m 5’7 with a 29-30 inseam and just sold my K1 frameset and ordered the new K1 Race ID frameset. I had a 9point8 150 dropper in mine. It was perfect for my size. I think you could probably get away with a 170 if it’s a got a short lower tube insertion length.

 

[Nathan79]

Still seesawing between the two, but at this point think it will be the K1.
Looking at all the geo numbers the K1 is bigger than my 22 medium Rail in every dimension other than top tube length, and that's purely down to the steep seat tube angle.

Just had a brief pedal on a k2.
felt ok size wise. Similar to the SA bullit size large but could feel the extra wheel base. used to ride a medium megatower before the bullit at 447 reach and was fine. Think you can get used to most geo,s really.

thinking could probably go K1 Though.
choices. Choices.

 

[Paul Mac]

Just had a brief pedal on a k2.
felt ok size wise. Similar to the SA bullit size large but could feel the extra wheel base. used to ride a medium megatower before the bullit at 447 reach and was fine. Think you can get used to most geo,s really.

thinking could probably go K1 Though.
choices. Choices.

I will have another ride on the K2 this week.
I have spoken to customer services at Pole and they state, as I know, I can ride either size, but would air towards the K2.
The problem with the last K2 I rode was the stem had been slammed to the head tube.
I think with 20mm spacers under the stem, it will not only shorten the reach, it would give me more leverage.
I will then choose a size and be done with it

 

[Nathan79]

I will have another ride on the K2 this week.
I have spoken to customer services at Pole and they state, as I know, I can ride either size, but would air towards the K2.
The problem with the last K2 I rode was the stem had been slammed to the head tube.
I think with 20mm spacers under the stem, it will not only shorten the reach, it would give me more leverage.
I will then choose a size and be done with it

Did you manage another ride on the K2 after?

looking at geo comparisons charts just about to hit the button for K1. But don’t want to regret it..

 

[Paul Mac]

Did you manage another ride on the K2 after?

looking at geo comparisons charts just about to hit the button for K1. But don’t want to regret it..

Yes went out on the K2 yesterday.
This time it was in standard set up, with 35mm stem and 190mm air suspension, also 20mm spacers under stem.
It was a complete contrast to the other K2 I rode.
I could get the front up much easier, it wheelies easily, still can't manual it, but as I previously stated I can't manual my current medium Rail.
On the trail I could ride it with ease and it felt fast and confidence inspiring.
On balance I feel that the K2 is the size that I should be on, although I can ride both.

 

[Nathan79]

Yes went out on the K2 yesterday.
This time it was in standard set up, with 35mm stem and 190mm air suspension, also 20mm spacers under stem.
It was a complete contrast to the other K2 I rode.
I could get the front up much easier, it wheelies easily, still can't manual it, but as I previously stated I can't manual my current medium Rail.
On the trail I could ride it with ease and it felt fast and confidence inspiring.
On balance I feel that the K2 is the size that I should be on, although I can ride both.

View attachment 110125

Was afraid you were going to say that

 

[Paul Mac]

Was afraid you were going to say that

I feel your pain!
I've never agonised as much choosing a bike size.
I think with the Poles it's easy to try and make it feel like your old bike, rather than embracing the whole ethos of why your actually wanting to try the Pole brand.

 

[Karve]

@Nathan79 Im 173cm 5"8 with 30.5 inch inseam, running a oneup 180mm post with space to spare - Paul was trying my k2 bike. He's a smidge taller than me. Its the right size for me and what I like to ride. Done 700k so far and I have lots of confidence on the tightest and steepest off piste stuff.

Looks like your a S Wales rider so for context ive ridden it on tight stuff like the Network R trails, Conda and the top of Jonduro etc. Its awesome on that terrain as well as the faster stuff like Busy Lizzie. I think it will be confidence inspiring down trails like Domduro, Mynyddislwyn etc - havent tried yet

I think id be happy on a k1 when stood up, but a bit cramped when seated.... but I do have a proportionaly longer torso.... I think Poles sizing guide is accurate.

 

[Plummet]

I feel your pain!
I've never agonised as much choosing a bike size.
I think with the Poles it's easy to try and make it feel like your old bike, rather than embracing the whole ethos of why your actually wanting to try the Pole brand.

I'll he honest. I wish they had a 79 deg seat tube and slightly longer tt for each reach size.

I know what i want in the reach department. For me descending set up is most important. 450 is what I want for reach. That's still 30mm longer than my current bikes.

So I will be on k1 size with a stupid short tt. I'll have to slam the seat back on the rails to try and counteract the shortness of the tt.

I do a lot of tight steep almost trials like tech. So also dont want to go too long in wheelbase.

 

[Nathan79]

Cheers for response.
where you based?

I currently have a large bullet reach is 475mm
i do feel sometimes a bit stretched when descending. I used to ride a medium megatower and that was 447mm in low setting and when the bars were rolled forward it was fine..

I was thinking that with the reduced reach it would feel better. looking at geo it’s still a longer overall wheel base and front centre than large bullet so descending should feel fine.
still interesting to here what you’ve ridden on your k2. Heads in bits. Is

 

[Nathan79]

I'll he honest. I wish they had a 79 deg seat tube and slightly longer tt for each reach size.

I know what i want in the reach department. For me descending set up is most important. 450 is what I want for reach. That's still 30mm longer than my current bikes.

So I will be on k1 size with a stupid short tt. I'll have to slam the seat back on the rails to try and counteract the shortness of the tt.

I do a lot of tight steep almost trials like tech. So also dont want to go too long in wheelbase.

I know what you mean

how tall are you, what inseam?

 

[Plummet]

I know what you mean

how tall are you, what inseam?

Not sure what my inseam is but i'm 5,11. 180cm.

That puts me square in K2 according to Pole. But not according to what I enjoy for my riding style and the tracks I ride which are mostly tight steep tech. I rode the K4 pole last week (the only one in my area) that was stupid big. But for better reference I also rode a Nukeproof Mega in large and a Comencal Power 29 in medium.
The mega at 475 reach felt too stretched. The meta at 450 reach felt just right.

Im riding 2017/18 M Slayers for my pedal bikes and 2017 mondraker summom for my dh rig. I'll admit they are on the short side and i need to increase reach. But they are also awesome for my tight slower speed track that I have locally. I don't want to go to 480 reach or 1313 wheel base. That will compromise my down enjoyment.

The meta felt fine in the riding compartment at 587TT. The k1 at 560 is 27mm shorter than that. But I can probably take most of that difference up with slamming the seat back.

My advice is to consider your riding style, what speeds you like to go and what track you like to ride. What's more important to you high speed stability or manoeuvrability? do you favour seated pedal up cockpit (TT) over descended cockpit (reach)?

I will also admit that I typically ride one size small than recommended

 

[slickrock]

I'll he honest. I wish they had a 79 deg seat tube and slightly longer tt for each reach size.

I know what i want in the reach department. For me descending set up is most important. 450 is what I want for reach. That's still 30mm longer than my current bikes.

So I will be on k1 size with a stupid short tt. I'll have to slam the seat back on the rails to try and counteract the shortness of the tt.

I do a lot of tight steep almost trials like tech. So also don't want to go too long in wheelbase.

If reach is what you are after and that plops you on a K1, even for your height, I wouldn't worry too much about the short TT. That's one of the more initially strange aspects of the Voima geo: longer reach for a given TT length. The secret is setting up the bike for an upright stance. Get 50mm riser handlebar and enough stack and a high excursion dropper to get you get tall on the bike. This does 3 things:

1. It puts you in an ideal climbing position from the standpoint of the high seat tube angle and the front-center of the bike. You end up with a mechanical/anatomical advantage for climbing with this geo, yet the reach and wheelbase is long enough somehow keep the bike from losing the front wheel contact, even with a 50mm riser.
2. IMO, more upright stance will mean less stooping on the downhills without your ass way toward the back (long chainstay to the rescue here).
3. The upright stance leverages the high BB geo, making it work better for your when you maneuver the twisties - using lean vs. turning, and then vertical COG control when things get very technical. Definitely, definitely need a dropper with maximum travel with K1 and your height so you can drop your COG down into the bike for additional dimensions of control.

All this said, is from my experience on a K1 and trying too extrapolate if I was several inches taller. So ultimately, YMMV. If you do get the K1, you might freak out initially with TT/Reach mismatch, as I initially did. It will feel cramped at first, although my first ride was with a meager 20mm riser (i.e I wasn't riding more upright initially). Resist the temptation to move the saddle all they back (also, stay away from short saddles with this bike). Understand that you would be on a different kind of bike (especially the K1 because it has a lower aspect ratio compared to the other sizes) and will take time to understand it. TTYTT, the K2 would probably be the safer bet, but with the K1, you might have a more artful ride on the most nimble version of Voima.

 

[Onetime]

If reach is what you are after and that plops you on a K1, even for your height, I wouldn't worry too much about the short TT. That's one of the more initially strange aspects of the Voima geo: longer reach for a given TT length. The secret is setting up the bike for an upright stance. Get 50mm riser handlebar and enough stack and a high excursion dropper to get you get tall on the bike. This does 3 things:

1. It puts you in an ideal climbing position from the standpoint of the high seat tube angle and the front-center of the bike. You end up with a mechanical/anatomical advantage for climbing with this geo, yet the reach and wheelbase is long enough somehow keep the bike from losing the front wheel contact, even with a 50mm riser.
2. IMO, more upright stance will mean less stooping on the downhills without your ass way toward the back (long chainstay to the rescue here).
3. The upright stance leverages the high BB geo, making it work better for your when you maneuver the twisties - using lean vs. turning, and then vertical COG control when things get very technical. Definitely, definitely need a dropper with maximum travel with K1 and your height so you can drop your COG down into the bike for additional dimensions of control.

All this said, is from my experience on a K1 and trying too extrapolate if I was several inches taller. So ultimately, YMMV. If you do get the K1, you might freak out initially with TT/Reach mismatch, as I initially did. It will feel cramped at first, although my first ride was with a meager 20mm riser (i.e I wasn't riding more upright initially). Resist the temptation to move the saddle all they back (also, stay away from short saddles with this bike). Understand that you would be on a different kind of bike (especially the K1 because it has a lower aspect ratio compared to the other sizes) and will take time to understand it. TTYTT, the K2 would probably be the safer bet, but with the K1, you might have a more artful ride on the most nimble version of Voima.

100%, I couldn’t agree with this more.

 

[Nathan79]

just took the plunge and ordered a K1 -- fingers crossed..

 

[Plummet]

If reach is what you are after and that plops you on a K1, even for your height, I wouldn't worry too much about the short TT. That's one of the more initially strange aspects of the Voima geo: longer reach for a given TT length. The secret is setting up the bike for an upright stance. Get 50mm riser handlebar and enough stack and a high excursion dropper to get you get tall on the bike. This does 3 things:

1. It puts you in an ideal climbing position from the standpoint of the high seat tube angle and the front-center of the bike. You end up with a mechanical/anatomical advantage for climbing with this geo, yet the reach and wheelbase is long enough somehow keep the bike from losing the front wheel contact, even with a 50mm riser.
2. IMO, more upright stance will mean less stooping on the downhills without your ass way toward the back (long chainstay to the rescue here).
3. The upright stance leverages the high BB geo, making it work better for your when you maneuver the twisties - using lean vs. turning, and then vertical COG control when things get very technical. Definitely, definitely need a dropper with maximum travel with K1 and your height so you can drop your COG down into the bike for additional dimensions of control.

All this said, is from my experience on a K1 and trying too extrapolate if I was several inches taller. So ultimately, YMMV. If you do get the K1, you might freak out initially with TT/Reach mismatch, as I initially did. It will feel cramped at first, although my first ride was with a meager 20mm riser (i.e I wasn't riding more upright initially). Resist the temptation to move the saddle all they back (also, stay away from short saddles with this bike). Understand that you would be on a different kind of bike (especially the K1 because it has a lower aspect ratio compared to the other sizes) and will take time to understand it. TTYTT, the K2 would probably be the safer bet, but with the K1, you might have a more artful ride on the most nimble version of Voima.

If you put a riser bar on and increase the stack height aren't you simply trying to counteract a reach thats too long for you? both those things reduce reach.

I'll be honest the crazy as 80 Deg seat angle and short TT for the reach measurement is the only thing holding me back from hitting go. I simply don't like long reach bikes for descending tight tech.

If I choose the K1 it might just be too short in the TT for extended sessions. If I choose the k2 i'll probably hate it for the tight tech that I ride. If I was riding fast open chunky bike park it would be a no brainer. I'd withstand the longer reach and go K2. But a lot of my stuff is natural steep slow and very tight. Hell I have to nose wheelie flick the back around in several spots just to get around.

My daughters size small Orbea Rise has the same TT measurement as the K1 of 560. I might have to spend a bit more time on that to see if I can live with it long term.

I am also looking at the crestline RS75/50. That has the exact geo I want and its carbon. But its crazy expensive to import into NZ.
Argh......

 

[BigG]

High rise bar doesn’t shorten reach.
Higher stack under stem does shorten it though.
So if you want higher cockpit without shortening reach - high rise bar is the answer.

I have pretty specific requirements for a handlebar so had to go into custom territory.
I need 12+° backsweep for CTS, 50mm rise and at least 800mm width, 820 is even better, due to longer torso/arms.
Nobody from standard manufacturers makes such a handlebar, nor alu neither carbon.

I found this company:

DOOM BARS

www.doombars.com

The make steel and titanium bars, custom geo as standard.
I’ve ordered a bar from them:
Lucky riser ti, thicker pipe wall(2mm), 880width, 50mm rise, 14° backsweep.
$250 shipped in standard finish, 31.8 shim included. That’s an absolutely awesome price for a custom titanium bar.

Not affiliated in any way, just a happy client.
I did cut it down to ~840mm though, true 880 width is too much even for me (196cm tall).

 

[wavekiter]

If you have long legs, you most likely want a riser bar with the 80 degree seat angle of the Voima, in order to compensate for stack height.
Picture it: he seat goes almost vertically up, so you will sit in a cramped position with the bar too far down with a normal bar.
With my 33 inch inseam and short arms, I use the deity 80mm riser bar, which brings me back into an ergonomic position.

As BigG says, the riser does not shorten the reach, contrary to spacers. What happens though is that your weight is more over the front axle in a riding position. (Picture the bike pointing down the slope at an angle, and draw the gravity line from the handlebar to see what I am referring to).
This implies that for the same handling/control, you could use a shorter stem with a riser bar (in case you are between sizes, and would like to shorten the reach), or you will increase control in step / twitchy sections if you keep the same stem size.

 

[Paris Doo]

If the angle of the riser bars matches the angle of the fork then the higher the rise the smaller the reach would be since it will have the same effect as adding spacers under the stem.

For me the 80 seat tube angle creates an unnecessary compromise between the desired reach & effective top tube length and makes it hard to choose the "correct" size. Personally I would be much happier with a 76 to 78 angle that would give people room to play with the horizontal seat position (moving it on the rails) in order to get the proper fit.

Of course even with a 80 angle you can still move your seat but it would probably be backwards which will create a rather oddly looking bike.

 

[wavekiter]

If the angle of the riser bars matches the angle of the fork then the higher the rise the smaller the reach would be since it will have the same effect as adding spacers under the stem.

Typically, you will keep the riser bar at 90 degree, not 63 degree of the fork(which would distort the bar geometry)

 

[Paris Doo]

Typically, you will keep the riser bar at 90 degree, not 63 degree of the fork(which would distort the bar geometry)

I never run my bars at 90 degrees. I usually match the roll of the bar with the fork angle or go a bit steeper but never 90 degrees.

 

[wavekiter]

I never run my bars at 90 degrees. I usually match the roll of the bar with the fork angle or go a bit steeper but never 90 degrees.

Whatever floats your boat

 

[Paris Doo]

I agree that it all comes down to personal preference. Here is a video of Gwin explaining his preferred setup.

 

[Onetime]

I agree that it all comes down to personal preference. Here is a video of Gwin explaining his preferred setup.

Different strokes for different folks. I prefer Dakota’s higher cockpit arrangement to Gwyn’s. I also prefer the Pole’s stock geo including the 80* seatpost. There is a reason the Voima is so good at everything, including climbing, (thanks to the 80* seat tube angle). If you want a regular bike with regular geo, then don’t buy the Pole. It’s meant to be different. They thought outside the box when they made it. Once you ride one and learn to embrace the different feel, it’s awesome! Best bike I’ve ever ridden.

 

[Paris Doo]

Different strokes for different folks. I prefer Dakota’s higher cockpit arrangement to Gwyn’s. I also prefer the Pole’s stock geo including the 80* seatpost. There is a reason the Voima is so good at everything, including climbing, (thanks to the 80* seat tube angle). If you want a regular bike with regular geo, then don’t buy the Pole. It’s meant to be different. They thought outside the box when they made it. Once you ride one and learn to embrace the different feel, it’s awesome! Best bike I’ve ever ridden.

Voima's geometry isn't out of the box. There are many companies using similar geometry like Privateer, Nikolai etc. What is out of the box is the production method and the rather polarizing look.

 

[Onetime]

Voima's geometry isn't out of the box. There are many companies using similar geometry like Privateer, Nikolai etc. What is out of the box is the production method and the rather polarizing look.

I don’t think there is any other manufacturer that has an 80* seat tube. The zero drop BB is also different from most other brands, as is the super long wheelbase and like you said the production method and looks. So yes, it is outside the box. Maybe I’m wrong here, but is seems from your posts here, that you don’t like the Voima. So if that’s the case, why are you even subscribed to this thread and posting about the bike? If you just want the same old thing, a Chinese cookie cutter bike with the same geo as everything else, the Voima is not for you bro.

 

[Paris Doo]

I don’t think there is any other manufacturer that has an 80* seat tube. The zero drop BB is also different from most other brands, as is the super long wheelbase and like you said the production method and looks. So yes, it is outside the box. Maybe I’m wrong here, but is seems from your posts here, that you don’t like the Voima. So if that’s the case, why are you even subscribed to this thread and posting about the bike? If you just want the same old thing, a Chinese cookie cutter bike with the same geo as everything else, the Voima is not for you bro.

I really like the Voima and I am seriously considering it but most of the posts here are about sizing and people who in theory like Voima's modern geo end up buying the wrong (usually smaller size) and then spending time buying higher riser bars, moving the seat backwards etc!