First emtb- carbon or hydro?

[SillyPosition]

Im supposed to get an H15 in a week or so, and still so hard for me to feel like it's the best option
Every second rider I ask, says different things, I even heard of riders getting better range on the M20 than the H15
Will the M20 even provide me 40km of riding range on trail, with myself + gear about 90kg? Seems to be not that certain
And on top of that I found a dealer selling a slightly used M20 carbon for the same price as the H15.

 

[benzy]

Im supposed to get an H15 in a week or so, and still so hard for me to feel like it's the best option
Every second rider I ask, says different things, I even heard of riders getting better range on the M20 than the H15
Will the M20 even provide me 40km of riding range on trail, with myself + gear about 90kg? Seems to be not that certain
And on top of that I found a dealer selling a slightly used M20 carbon for the same price as the H15.

The only way a rider is getting more range on an M20 is riding style or motor settings. I mention in a previous comment but my mate on his M10 gets about 20 miles/~2500 ft in mostly profile 2 "trail" mode when the battery dies. After the same ride I have about 2 bars of power in reserve, and I am a heavier rider. If you need the range, and settled on the Rise, then the Hydro model or Carbon+ extender is your only option, unless you want to run on Eco all day.

 

[BiGJZ74]

I can go either way on that. I will say the market will probably guide Orbea on this one. In a vacuum the Orbea lineup seems dialed, especially with the extender option. But when put against compelling competition like the SC Heckler, Transition Repeater et al, a longer range carbon model may be an Orbea option in the future.

If Orbea is gonna put a bigger Battery in a bike I'd guess it would be a modern geo Wild or e-Rallon style long travel enduro rig. 455 reach on a lrg wild is mega outdated and with Bosch's smart system out, it would be the platform to update. imho

 

[BiGJZ74]

Settled on the aluminium one eventually. Should have it by next month .
Both for the range, for the money savings (I probalby wont notice the difference between the 150mm forks), and all the other very good reasons provided here above. It just makes sense.

Which H model did you get? I'm 155kg in gear and got 33km and 1250m climbing in 80% trail 20% Eco with it set @ 51nm & assist level 6. My Rise is a lrg H15 weighs 20.17kg but swapped just about every part but cranks...some heavier parts and some lighter.

 

[SillyPosition]

Which H model did you get? I'm 155kg in gear and got 33km and 1250m climbing in 80% trail 20% Eco with it set @ 51nm & assist level 6. My Rise is a lrg H15 weighs 20.17kg but swapped just about every part but cranks...some heavier parts and some lighter.

I have an order for H15. I’m 90-92kg with gear. what did you change in your bike since buying it?

I just came across a deal from a dealership for a very slightly used M20 (just a few miles on it), practically new. It’s ‘21 model, so no screen installed as with the new hydro variation.
concern is obviously still range, 34 vs 36 fork… but- given it’s “used” it’s in a discount, about 400$ cheaper than the h15.
I could basically upgrade the shaft for a few bucks and get the fork to 150mm, yet still 34. Is it that critical for me? I’m not sure, because I don’t do high jumps. Maybe 3ft. At least with my analog bike. Lots of single tracks, but usually not risking myself in severe injurys

 

[BiGJZ74]

I have an order for H15. I’m 90-92kg with gear. what did you change in your bike since buying it?

I just came across a deal from a dealership for a very slightly used M20 (just a few miles on it), practically new. It’s ‘21 model, so no screen installed as with the new hydro variation.
concern is obviously still range, 34 vs 36 fork… but- given it’s “used” it’s in a discount, about 400$ cheaper than the h15.
I could basically upgrade the shaft for a few bucks and get the fork to 150mm, yet still 34. Is it that critical for me? I’m not sure, because I don’t do high jumps. Maybe 3ft. At least with my analog bike. Lots of single tracks, but usually not risking myself in severe injurys

From the factory I upgraded to factory suspension and XT 4piston brakes. I’ve now added one up 210mm droppper, XT 160mm cranks, Raceface Next R bars/Turbine R stem/Next R32 Carbon hoops, SRAM X01 Driverrain shifter/chain/cassette, specialized power pro elaston saddle, Magura MDR-P 220/203 rotors and now a Fox Fsctory 38 grip2 160mm.

 

[Pezzar]

From the factory I upgraded to factory suspension and XT 4piston brakes. I’ve now added one up 210mm droppper, XT 160mm cranks, Raceface Next R bars/Turbine R stem/Next R32 Carbon hoops, SRAM X01 Driverrain shifter/chain/cassette, specialized power pro elaston saddle, Magura MDR-P 220/203 rotors and now a Fox Fsctory 38 grip2 160mm.

Basically a new bike?

 

[Richridesmtb]

From the factory I upgraded to factory suspension and XT 4piston brakes. I’ve now added one up 210mm droppper, XT 160mm cranks, Raceface Next R bars/Turbine R stem/Next R32 Carbon hoops, SRAM X01 Driverrain shifter/chain/cassette, specialized power pro elaston saddle, Magura MDR-P 220/203 rotors and now a Fox Fsctory 38 grip2 160mm.

Good thing they do suspension and brakes with the frame you ordered from the factory.

 

[Paddypower]

Im supposed to get an H15 in a week or so, and still so hard for me to feel like it's the best option
Every second rider I ask, says different things, I even heard of riders getting better range on the M20 than the H15
Will the M20 even provide me 40km of riding range on trail, with myself + gear about 90kg? Seems to be not that certain
And on top of that I found a dealer selling a slightly used M20 carbon for the same price as the H15.

I had the exact same dilemma as you....getting conflicting feedback/reviews..However...I eventually went for the M20 Carbon XL, which was delivered yesterday ...my decision was based purely on weight as I had previously owned a Specialized Turbo Levo FSR Alloy Full Fat which weighed in at just over 24kg...the decision was probably made a year ago when I got stuck roughly 25 miles away from home via a dead motor!!!......I had to ride it home through woodlands with no assistance which was like comparing it to riding a non e-bike in sand with flat tyres!!!
So when Orbea launched the RISE it just made sense to me, light EMTB, with decent power 60nm and sub 19kg.....and probably no going white again sweating with fear... that I may have a dead motor or flat battery!!!... or if I did..... the ride home would be more pleasurable !!
The decision was extremley hard though... as the H30 also ticked all the boxes, but I have never owned a carbon and going forward I can make the bike even lighter...as most of my riding on the levo was in ECO or non assistance on trails as I got fitter.
Hope you enjoy the HYDRO though... as hopefully I will, on the M series (my first ride will be this weekend)

 

[SillyPosition]

From the factory I upgraded to factory suspension and XT 4piston brakes. I’ve now added one up 210mm droppper, XT 160mm cranks, Raceface Next R bars/Turbine R stem/Next R32 Carbon hoops, SRAM X01 Driverrain shifter/chain/cassette, specialized power pro elaston saddle, Magura MDR-P 220/203 rotors and now a Fox Fsctory 38 grip2 160mm.

Any adapters needed for the mdrp rotors?

 

[Tubby G]

Thought I’d chip in just to help y’all make some decisions …

I had my M20 delivered a few weeks ago. Chose to put the FOX 36 fork on and changed the brakes to Magura MT5, otherwise it’s as stock

Absolutely phenomenal bike, love every second on the saddle

Now I’m probably one of the heaviest and unfittest guys on this forum, weighing in at a mighty 115kg. Been used to blasting around everywhere on a full fat Bosch motor for the last year, getting approx 30-35 miles range with around 3000+ ft ascent

I’m riding the Rise on the same terrain and getting around 20-23 miles. Only depleted the battery once and that was at 23 miles. My partner also has a Rise, is much fitter and far lighter than me. On that same ride she still had 20% battery left. I ride in trail mode, profile 2, changed to 51Nm. Hardly ever use boost, sometimes eco on the descents if I remember to change modes

I do have a range extender due to be delivered anytime soon, but to be honest I’ll rarely use it. 20 miles on the Rise is far more fun and exhilarating than 35 miles on a full fat. As I’m now having to work much harder on the climbs, I can see myself becoming fitter, and the range will increase as a result. I may even lose some weight, who knows! After a weekend of riding my legs are throbbing in places I didn’t know existed, but every moment of pain is worth every second of saddle time on the Rise

I’m keeping the full fat, but I can only see myself using that on group rides with other full fat bikes. The Rise is simply amazing. Wish I was riding it right now rather than sat here typing on this forum!

I could have changed my order to an H15 during the delivery waiting period, but I’m glad I didn’t. The carbon frame is sooo damn sexy. I don’t need the extra range, and on the rare occasions I do, I’ll just slap the range extender on

 

[SillyPosition]

23 miles at your weight on trail? Sounds not bad at all tbh.
it might be enough for me. I’m still one who rides 20-30km on my analog bike in single tracks. I don’t know if I’m going to dramatically change into riding boost and trail all the time. I still like to put an effort. So maybe i can still get those 35-40km with combo of all modes.

 

[Tubby G]

23 miles at your weight on trail? Sounds not bad at all tbh.
it might be enough for me. I’m still one who rides 20-30km on my analog bike in single tracks. I don’t know if I’m going to dramatically change into riding boost and trail all the time. I still like to put an effort. So maybe i can still get those 35-40km with combo of all modes.

Yes, all trail and fire road climb miles. The weather has been kind to us recently since I’ve had the bike so all dry miles, no thick sloppy mud

My partner gets far more range on hers as she only weighs in at around 70kg. When I was on the full fat she kept up with me at all times and never ran out of juice

If you’re fit & healthy and an average weight then you’ll easily get 40km on the Rise, probably more like 50+ km, especially if riding in Eco

 

[BiGJZ74]

Any adapters needed for the mdrp rotors?

Every time u change rotor size u need an adapter.

 

[SillyPosition]

I had the exact same dilemma as you....getting conflicting feedback/reviews..However...I eventually went for the M20 Carbon XL, which was delivered yesterday ...my decision was based purely on weight as I had previously owned a Specialized Turbo Levo FSR Alloy Full Fat which weighed in at just over 24kg...the decision was probably made a year ago when I got stuck roughly 25 miles away from home via a dead motor!!!......I had to ride it home through woodlands with no assistance which was like comparing it to riding a non e-bike in sand with flat tyres!!!
So when Orbea launched the RISE it just made sense to me, light EMTB, with decent power 60nm and sub 19kg.....and probably no going white again sweating with fear... that I may have a dead motor or flat battery!!!... or if I did..... the ride home would be more pleasurable !!
The decision was extremley hard though... as the H30 also ticked all the boxes, but I have never owned a carbon and going forward I can make the bike even lighter...as most of my riding on the levo was in ECO or non assistance on trails as I got fitter.
Hope you enjoy the HYDRO though... as hopefully I will, on the M series (my first ride will be this weekend)

Waiting for your reports on Saturday

 

[Bigkatoomer]

I'm on my second Rise M10 XL. It's around 18.8kg and with summer tyres (dissectors EXO+s), carbon rim and XTR rear mech, it should be comfortably under 18kg. Being able to lift it onto roof racks, over stiles and gates, onto uplifts (don't ask) are important factors of ownership for me - I'm pretty feeble. I also love the acoustic feeling of the bike so I do keep a focus on the weight of it.

Therefore for me, bike weight is important. I don't think range is nearly as significant as 'range anxiety'. I often ride with the motor off. Life's a little slower, and a little less fun, but it's perfectly doable, even at the end of a long day. To move the weight nearer that of a 12kg Stumpjumper, and away from the 'barge against the tide' of a 24kg YT decoy, it makes a real difference to the feasibility of riding unassisted. If you can ride the bike unassisted, then suddenly ultimate assisted range has less impact.

Most of my rides where I've used all the internal battery, it's been timed to happen as I complete the ride, as I manage my speed and effort to match the pace through the battery. And invariably it's only flat because I forgot to charge it fully beforehand.

I've had a range extender for 20 months now. It's been fitted on just two all-dayer rides, but for both those rides, I finished with more capacity than the extender anyway.

Two other factors to my specific decision:
I ride on my own and with acoustic bikes and a Kenevo SL. If I were riding with a lot of fit Full Fat riders, I'm sure I'd be using the extender more.
I buy the bikes through the UK Cycle Scheme, so they're effectively 40% discounted, meaning, cost is less of a factor, as it's usually recovered in re-sale so I'm happy to spend more.

I hope that helps, I doubt it has in hindsight. I'm sure whatever variant you pick, you'll have an absolute blast.

 

[SillyPosition]

I'm on my second Rise M10 XL. It's around 18.8kg and with summer tyres (dissectors EXO+s), carbon rim and XTR rear mech, it should be comfortably under 18kg. Being able to lift it onto roof racks, over stiles and gates, onto uplifts (don't ask) are important factors of ownership for me - I'm pretty feeble. I also love the acoustic feeling of the bike so I do keep a focus on the weight of it.

Therefore for me, bike weight is important. I don't think range is nearly as significant as 'range anxiety'. I often ride with the motor off. Life's a little slower, and a little less fun, but it's perfectly doable, even at the end of a long day. To move the weight nearer that of a 12kg Stumpjumper, and away from the 'barge against the tide' of a 24kg YT decoy, it makes a real difference to the feasibility of riding unassisted. If you can ride the bike unassisted, then suddenly ultimate assisted range has less impact.

Most of my rides where I've used all the internal battery, it's been timed to happen as I complete the ride, as I manage my speed and effort to match the pace through the battery. And invariably it's only flat because I forgot to charge it fully beforehand.

I've had a range extender for 20 months now. It's been fitted on just two all-dayer rides, but for both those rides, I finished with more capacity than the extender anyway.

Two other factors to my specific decision:
I ride on my own and with acoustic bikes and a Kenevo SL. If I were riding with a lot of fit Full Fat riders, I'm sure I'd be using the extender more.
I buy the bikes through the UK Cycle Scheme, so they're effectively 40% discounted, meaning, cost is less of a factor, as it's usually recovered in re-sale so I'm happy to spend more.

I hope that helps, I doubt it has in hindsight. I'm sure whatever variant you pick, you'll have an absolute blast.

Nice.
thanks for the input.
After all this I’m probably going to settle for an M20, with fork upgraded to 150mm.
reasoning is that I think range will be fine, and delivery times for the hydro is really big right now.
Im wondering how dissectors combo is working for you? It’s a fast and lightweight tyre, but how is it when it’s wet outside?
Do you replace to winter set when it starts to become slippery?
I’m not into the rekon tyre, seeing many are pushing the dissector to the back and putting assessing or minion up front. Only downside is the extra 0.4kg of the tyre weight.

 

[Tubby G]

Nice.
thanks for the input.
After all this I’m probably going to settle for an M20, with fork upgraded to 150mm.
reasoning is that I think range will be fine, and delivery times for the hydro is really big right now.
Im wondering how dissectors combo is working for you? It’s a fast and lightweight tyre, but how is it when it’s wet outside?
Do you replace to winter set when it starts to become slippery?
I’m not into the rekon tyre, seeing many are pushing the dissector to the back and putting assessing or minion up front. Only downside is the extra 0.4kg of the tyre weight.

I changed the rear Rekon to a DHR and kept the Dissector up front. No problems at all with the Dissector, but it has been dry here the past month. Have an Assegai to put on later in the year when it turns sloppy again

You won’t be disappointed with the M20 at all, fantastic bike.

 

[BiGJZ74]

I changed the rear Rekon to a DHR and kept the Dissector up front. No problems at all with the Dissector, but it has been dry here the past month. Have an Assegai to put on later in the year when it turns sloppy again

You won’t be disappointed with the M20 at all, fantastic bike.

I did something similar, Dissector up front but with DHF in the rear

 

[SillyPosition]

I did something similar, Dissector up front but with DHF in the rear

I thought dhf is more of a front tyre. What made you choose dhf instead of dhr? And what width, 2.3 or 2.4?

 

[BiGJZ74]

I thought dhf is more of a front tyre. What made you choose dhf instead of dhr? And what width, 2.3 or 2.4?

2.6" front and rear. For me in loose over hard conditions and in techy climbs I find the DHR2 to slip just a bit before it grips whereas the the DHF doesn't. I first tried it on the rear of my Rail, just to wear out a used tire I had sitting around when I tested the Assegai when t first came out. I ended up liking it and actually prefering it over the DHR2.

 

[Tubby G]

My DHR is 2.3 and the Dissector is 2.4. They both feel great. Perfectly happy

 

[TKB]

I'm ordering my first eMTB now and I've been in the same position, choosing between carbon and aluminum. I settled on the aluminum frame because of mainly two factors 1) longer range and 2) I'll also use the bike for commuting (unusual use of such a bike but I live in the north of Norway with a snow season on 7 months and a dirt trail season on 5 months...). Getting 2.8" studded tires on the bike during the snow season will likely be a lot of fun and I would not dare park an expensive carbon frame close to other bikes in town or at work.

BTW, what's the largest tire one can fit on the hydro aluminum frame?

 

[Bigkatoomer]

Nice.
thanks for the input.
After all this I’m probably going to settle for an M20, with fork upgraded to 150mm.
reasoning is that I think range will be fine, and delivery times for the hydro is really big right now.
Im wondering how dissectors combo is working for you? It’s a fast and lightweight tyre, but how is it when it’s wet outside?
Do you replace to winter set when it starts to become slippery?
I’m not into the rekon tyre, seeing many are pushing the dissector to the back and putting assessing or minion up front. Only downside is the extra 0.4kg of the tyre weight.

I used the Rekon/Dissector combo last summer and it was fine. I didn't have any issues with them. Then the rain and mud arrived and the Rekon was hopeless. I then swapped them both for Assegai/DHRII EXO+ and this combo serves me well for trails and bike parks. I liked the dissector, and as you've astutely noticed, there's 400g of unsprung rotational mass between Double Dissectors EXO+ vs Assegai/DHRII.

So I have on order (arriving end of May) a second carbon wheelset and XTR rear mech, which will be shod with Dissectors and I'll use this for trail, and local stuff, basically everything but Bikeparks and big trips away (where I'll take the more reliable Alu rims and Assegai/DHRII). I'm hoping these light hoops and light tyres will make a marked difference in getting an eager pedal stroke surge of pace, and keep the bike feeling light and fun.

 

[Paddypower]

Waiting for your reports on Saturday

Well what can I say....wow!!
Rides like a normal analogue bike but has the feel of a full fat e-bike on the hills.....
Really surprised how planted and quiet it felt, but also light and nimble compared to the Levo I owned, the range was great also..!!
It seemed great in all the settings ECO, TRAIL, AND BOOST and then realised half way round I could increase it even more in profile 2!!!
Absolute top bike, it ticks all the boxes I was expecting and lived up to them...I'm sure you'll enjoy the H series just as much as my M20

 

[TKB]

Well what can I say....wow!!
Rides like a normal analogue bike but has the feel of a full fat e-bike on the hills.....
Really surprised how planted and quiet it felt, but also light and nimble compared to the Levo I owned, the range was great also..!!
It seemed great in all the settings ECO, TRAIL, AND BOOST and then realised half way round I could increase it even more in profile 2!!!
Absolute top bike, it ticks all the boxes I was expecting and lived up to them...I'm sure you'll enjoy the H series just as much as my M20

Thanks for the info. I'm currently in the process of buying my first eMTB and it should preferably be sub 20kg. Could you compare the Rise M with the Levo SL?

 

[Paddypower]

Thanks for the info. I'm currently in the process of buying my first eMTB and it should preferably be sub 20kg. Could you compare the Rise M with the Levo SL?

TBH... I've not ridden the Levo SL as the Levo I owned was the Full Fat version FSR at 24kg+...however I did consider the SL as a lightweight option...but the RISE ticked more boxes so to speak with the 60nm compared to 35nm, and I personally prefer the look of the RISE to the SL.
but....it's all down to personal preference and what you want/need from a lightweight eMBT??...Thanks.

 

[TKB]

TBH... I've not ridden the Levo SL as the Levo I owned was the Full Fat version FSR at 24kg+...however I did consider the SL as a lightweight option...but the RISE ticked more boxes so to speak with the 60nm compared to 35nm, and I personally prefer the look of the RISE to the SL.
but....it's all down to personal preference and what you want/need from a lightweight eMBT??...Thanks.

I almost bought a 2021 Levo SL from our local bike shop but, got second thoughts when I learned about the Rise. As you say, it ticks more boxes. I also realized that I want an eMTB that I can use both in the mountains but also for commuting, then aluminum would be preferable, hence now drooling over a Rise hydro...

 

[Paddypower]

I almost bought a 2021 Levo SL from our local bike shop but, got second thoughts when I learned about the Rise. As you say, it ticks more boxes. I also realized that I want an eMTB that I can use both in the mountains but also for commuting, then aluminum would be preferable, hence now drooling over a Rise hydro...

Yes...the HYDRO was very close to being my next bike...but for me personally I just wanted a carbon as I had not owned one before and I like the fact it can be ridden without motor assistance as it is extremely light...but the H or the M models are both great bikes and you won't be disappointed

 

[SillyPosition]

Well
That happened today:View attachment 87408

H is delayed, M is available in my size for pickup, so it was a no brainer
Especially after I figured that at this frame size, I prefer the lighter weight over the range.
Re extender - well, we'll see...maybe I will need it at some occassions, but I dont think that on a daily basis, so I think I like this setup.
Time will tell, need to ride them later this week