GIANT Traumas. Are they BATTERY firmware related?

[malc101]

I think recording the CANBUS traffic and looking at who sends what just prior to shutdown is key to this. I hope to get my workshop and instrumentation setup to do this and figure out how many opcodes are used during communication and if the payload data is readable. But, I must say, as a new Trance owner I am pretty alarmed at all of this. I stayed away from the Special other brand due to do motor belt failures, but from all I've heard those were dealt with quickly. Lingering issues are disheartening. I bought my bike to go on long loops that would require someone driving four hours round trip to come get me, after a long walk out. Maybe, since mine is a '21, some of these issues have been resolved. by firmware updates. As a systems, software/hardware guy, there is nothing that I hate more than insufficient logging of issues during shutdowns. Usually the controllers are still active after they shutdown current to the motor and error codes can be written to memory.

 

[Kingerz]

Very perplexing.
Is it possible some of your diy shrinkwrapp and mods could have damaged anything? Or sealed in moisture?
On the other hand, some individual units are just cursed. I had a Nissan that broke all the time, went through three infotainment units etc etc and I was glad to be rid of it.
But that doesn't mean every Nissan is bad.

 

[Evolution Stu]

I think recording the CANBUS traffic and looking at who sends what just prior to shutdown is key to this. I hope to get my workshop and instrumentation setup to do this and figure out how many opcodes are used during communication and if the payload data is readable. But, I must say, as a new Trance owner I am pretty alarmed at all of this. I stayed away from the Special other brand due to do motor belt failures, but from all I've heard those were dealt with quickly. Lingering issues are disheartening. I bought my bike to go on long loops that would require someone driving four hours round trip to come get me, after a long walk out. Maybe, since mine is a '21, some of these issues have been resolved. by firmware updates. As a systems, software/hardware guy, there is nothing that I hate more than insufficient logging of issues during shutdowns. Usually the controllers are still active after they shutdown current to the motor and error codes can be written to memory.

I would be very interested to read your findings on the system should you ever document it.
Good luck on your 21. I’m sure they are making inroads to reliability with these things as they are after all, the biggest bike manufacturer on the planet.

 

[Evolution Stu]

Very perplexing.
Is it possible some of your diy shrinkwrapp and mods could have damaged anything? Or sealed in moisture?
On the other hand, some individual units are just cursed. I had a Nissan that broke all the time, went through three infotainment units etc etc and I was glad to be rid of it.
But that doesn't mean every Nissan is bad.

Anything is possible, but as documented in the OP I used brand new everything, all at the same time and it had never been wet.
plus i haven’t used the shrink method, I’ve used liquid tape and only covered the outside of the connectors. I also haven’t made that mistake that many make of adding a dielectric grease to the actual connection terminals. Mine are connected dry and the outer casing then waterproofed with liquid tape which we use on race car ECU’s all the time.

Plus of course the big one…
My mates battery works just fine on my bike.

I even bought and use the MY21 discharge connectors as it is so much better than the older ones that had no sealing on them at all.

 

[Mikerb]

Evening Mike,
Help me to understand your train of thought here.

What kind of “incompatibility“ are you thinking there might be on the bike that allows it to run just fine for literally hundreds of miles in between faults?

First off...my advice...never do an over the air update. Its done via blutooth which is a bout the most fault ridden transmission system ever invented!! It may well be you have corrupted firmware due to updates.

I suggest you get the dealer to reflash the motor firmware, and the firmware of both batteries. The dealer method rather than OTA will ensure an accurate and complete update. You at least can then be assured all software is compatable and correctly installed.

When a bike will not power on ( your when faulty does momentarilly) it is because the "boot up" procedure has failed. That boot up as per most software controlled devices has to send and recieve a "I am here" confirmation from all of those elements necessary for the bike to work. In the case of our bikes those elements include battery, speed sensor, torque sensor....and possibly mode controller. There are 2 electrical circuits. One high and one low voltage. High voltage is the battery connection to the motor, low voltage is the communications network that switches on the bike etc. You have done enough to ensure the wiring circuits are well protected so I doubt your issue has anything to do with damp/water ingress. I did note on your photos of both batteries in posts a bove however that the battery (female) terminals were far from clean!!
If re flashing all firmware ( motor and batteries) does not resolve the issue I would next be suspecting a combination problem initiated by the solid state electronics and compounded by the different firmware issues on your batteries. Virtually all of the solid state electronics is on the PCB inside the motor casing..........so can only be resolved with a new motor.

 

[Evolution Stu]

First off...my advice...never do an over the air update. Its done via blutooth which is a bout the most fault ridden transmission system ever invented!! It may well be you have corrupted firmware due to updates.

Bluetooth is fine when you use it properly and it wont corrupt anything so long as the process finishes and the CRC check comes back correct. The problems come when the process isnt finished because folk do it with bad phone signal, low batteries or browse Facebook on the device whilst they wait.

I suggest you get the dealer to reflash the motor firmware, and the firmware of both batteries. The dealer method rather than OTA will ensure an accurate and complete update. You at least can then be assured all software is compatable and correctly installed.

Already done.

When a bike will not power on ( your when faulty does momentarilly) it is because the "boot up" procedure has failed.

Or it completed perfectly and was immediately told to shut back down.
IE. The battery terminated the 1.5v line.

That boot up as per most software controlled devices has to send and recieve a "I am here" confirmation from all of those elements necessary for the bike to work. In the case of our bikes those elements include battery, speed sensor, torque sensor....and possibly mode controller. There are 2 electrical circuits. One high and one low voltage. High voltage is the battery connection to the motor, low voltage is the communications network that switches on the bike etc.

Indeed. It’s generically initiated by what’s knows as a handshaking protocol.
On our bikes it is initialised by a 1.5v signal sent down the pink wire which the controller fires, then the CAN lines go live.
Once they are all initialised the software requests a self test of each item on the CANbus.

I did note on your photos of both batteries in posts a bove however that the battery (female) terminals were far from clean!!

Probably just residual Servisol CW7100 on the terminals.
Arguably the best contact lubricant in the world. But naturally I tried dry contacts etc first.

If re flashing all firmware ( motor and batteries) does not resolve the issue I would next be suspecting a combination problem initiated by the solid state electronics and compounded by the different firmware issues on your batteries. Virtually all of the solid state electronics is on the PCB inside the motor casing..........so can only be resolved with a new motor.

You may have missed that this “is” a new motor And this problem has happened through 3 motors and multiple controllers.

But I come back to my original question.
what incompatibilities are you suggesting will work fine for 380 miles across 20 rides and perhaps 50”000ft of climbing and only cut out occasionally when it does at all? Corrupt firmware would always be corrupt… the motor is new. We are using multiple batteries that can’t all be faulty as they work in other bikes and I have one of each controller ever made.

I stand by my original theory that the (perfectly programmed) battery firmware is responding to minor bike faults in a different mannner depending on firmware version. That’s why my mates battery will power my “seemingly” faulty bike whilst my “seemingly” faulty battery powers his bike just fine at the same time.

Time will tell as I’ve asked my LBS to book both of my batteries in to be reprogrammed to the latest firmware versions by Giant.

 

[malc101]

Bluetooth is fine when you use it properly and it wont corrupt anything so long as the process finishes and the CRC check comes back correct. The problems come when the process is t finished because folk do it with bad signal, low batteries or browse Facebook on the device whilst they wait.




Already done.



Or it completed perfectly and was immediately told to shut back down.
IE. The battery terminated the 1.5v line.



Indeed. It’s generically initiated by what’s knows as a handshaking protocol.
On our bikes it is initialised by a 1.5v signal sent down the pink wire which the controller fires, then the CAN lines go live.
Once they are all initialised the software requests a self test of each item on the CANbus.




Probably just residual Servisol CW7100 on the terminals.
Arguably the best contact lubricant in the world. But naturally I tried dry contacts etc first.



You may have missed that this “is” a new motor And this problem has happened through 3 motors and multiple controllers.

But I come back to my original question.
what incompatibilities are you suggesting will work fine for 380 miles across 20 rides and perhaps 50”000ft of climbing and only cut out occasionally when it does at all? Corrupt firmware would always be corrupt… the motor is new. We are using multiple batteries that can’t all be faulty as they work in other bikes and I have one of each controller ever made.

I stand by my original theory that the (perfectly programmed) battery firmware is responding to minor bike faults in a different mannner depending on firmware version. That’s why my mates battery will power my “seemingly” faulty bike whilst my “seemingly” faulty battery powers his bike just fine at the same time.

Time will tell as I’ve asked my LBS to book both of my batteries in to be reprogrammed to the latest firmware versions by Giant.

Yeah, either firmware passes CRC and loads correctly, or it does not pass CRC check after download (but before installation) and gets rolled back, or it bricks your device. Chances of firmware having a few missing or bad bytes and then working at all are slim. Chances are that it is monitoring some voltage, current, or continuity, and not liking what it sees then telling the bike to shutdown.

 

[Mikerb]

Yeah, either firmware passes CRC and loads correctly, or it does not pass CRC check after download (but before installation) and gets rolled back, or it bricks your device. Chances of firmware having a few missing or bad bytes and then working at all are slim. Chances are that it is monitoring some voltage, current, or continuity, and not liking what it sees then telling the bike to shutdown.

If you are referring to OTA updates there are several blutooth versions with V5 being the current best at least in terms of error correction and most versions are backward compatible but there is no knowing what version is operating at each end of the transmission link...and there is no international standard. It was never intended for data transfer or commercial use operating as it does in a very congested waveband. Establishing a connection with blutooth is relatively effective although it is easily disrupted by competing signals in the same bandwidth. Effecting a data transfer is highly unreliable. A better solution is connection established via blutooth followed by the initiation of a private wifi link between the devices. If and when bike brands upgrade to that form of OTA I might be inclined to use it.

 

[malc101]

If you are referring to OTA updates there are several blutooth versions with V5 being the current best at least in terms of error correction and most versions are backward compatible but there is no knowing what version is operating at each end of the transmission link...and there is no international standard. It was never intended for data transfer or commercial use operating as it does in a very congested waveband. Establishing a connection with blutooth is relatively effective although it is easily disrupted by competing signals in the same bandwidth. Effecting a data transfer is highly unreliable. A better solution is connection established via blutooth followed by the initiation of a private wifi link between the devices. If and when bike brands upgrade to that form of OTA I might be inclined to use it.

Ok, but reliable data communication has occurred over unreliable media forever.

 

[Percy]

Hi,
oh yes, indeed they have had it back.
I have likely detailed it elsewhere but here is my tale of woe… (I’d grab a coffee)

MY20 Giant Trance E+2 Pro

View attachment 77841


Collected brand new: Feb 7th 2020.
This bike was a trade up for my rejected MY19 E+3Pro Which had a hub, a motor, a fork, 3 controllers and was generally nothing but trouble.


5th March = Ride One Controller failure (FLED28-10)
Had to wait a week for a new one to come

New one fitted and lost auto mode and ANT+ as they installed controller for a 2019 bike. (FLED28-07)
Had to wait again for a 2nd one to arrive.


25th March. = Speed sensor failure.
(Cracked plug due to placement in casing)
2 weeks wait. New one fitted 10th April.



15th June = Battery failure.
3 weeks wait until 6th July for a new one so bought a spare at same time.
That came faster than the warranty unit.



20th July = Motor bearings failure. (1st motor failure)
4 weeks wait until 21st August for her 2nd motor to be fitted.

20th July = Dropper post changed under warranty whilst it was in.


6th September = Ride One Controller failure
1 week wait until new one arrived 14th September (FLED28-10)


22nd November = Motor failure (2nd Motor failure)
26th November, her 3rd motor was installed.


14th December = Ride One Controller failure
1 week wait until 20th December. (FLED28-15 this time.)



18th January 21 = Dropper post failure again. (twists)
Shop said it needs to be sent to Giant for inspection which I wasn’t willing to do as I would have no bike.
I found a service kit for sale in USA so bought it and fixed it myself. Why cant these be available in UK?



19th May 21 = Motor bearings failure again. (3rd Motor failure)
Claim initialised by the shop and told week 29. Week 29 arrived and then told week 33. (16th Aug week)

18th Aug 2021 = her 4th Motor installed.
This time it was installed with brand new RCone (FLED28-15) new upgraded loom, new UPGRADED battery discharge connector and identical but new charging port plus the battery shim mod for good measure. Then it was all waterproofed with liquid insulator for good measure as always.


25th September 21.
Cut out on Garburn Pass.
No idea why, seemed warm and dry, wouldnt stay on. Took it back to car and it was fine when we got home.


13th Nov 21
Cut out at Gisburn Forest.
was wet, but same symptoms as the Garburn failure. Controller wont stay on.
Took it back to car and it was fine when we got home.


5th Dec 21.
Cut out at Gisburn with Steve.
Steves has identical bike so as a last resort after the usual wiggling, bouncing and swearing we tried his battery and it powered up my bike fine. As did my battery power his. Finished our ride no problem. back at the car neither of my own batteries would power it. But Steve’s still would on multiple occasions after lots of messing with connectors and cleaning of contacts.

Back at home, all batteries worked fine again. Baffled.
Current mileage is a little under 3000 miles.

**
Note:
This diary contains only the failures dealt with by warranty, I’ve bought at least 6 dropper repair kits until I gave up and fitted a BrandX Ascend and have fitted multiple RCOne control units myself as it was faster to start changing them myself as the LBS, whilst excellent. Is a 2hr round trip from me. So I started to educate myself on how these damn things tick and do my own diagnosis and repairs. I just wish I could get the Giant software to help me further.

**
Note 2:
this bike has been using the Excellent RCOne cover and battery terminal insulator pretty much since their inception.
They work a treat.

Giant came out with a similar battery terminal solution not long after these hit market.
You can see the cover in my video and the terminal insulator can be seen in this pic alongside the Giant version on my other battery.

View attachment 77839

and my wiring is always waterproofed like this:

View attachment 77840

As end users, I don’t think we can do any more.
you know, this would have made a cool separate topic, detailing how to waterproof them.

Problem is, it still cuts out from time to time…

Where do you get the battery terminal insulator? If someone can get me the .stl i could print it in TPE.

 

[malc101]

In the past I’ve seen bus communication systems plagued by poor or incorrectly located termination resistors. On a bike the two endpoints would be the head unit and the motor probably, or they perhaps just use a star like configuration at the motor since the wire runs are so short. Might be worth using an ohm meter with bike power off looking for the 100 ohm readings with wires pulled apart. If there isn’t one at the control head try sticking one there. 100 ohm!1/4 or 1/8 watt resistor. See this article for background: Diagnosing CANBUS Communication Problems | Orion Li-Ion Battery Management System.

A bit of water will affect signal due to a change in capacitance or resistance to the bus if it’s not terminated properly. Badly terminated stuff works 99.9% of the time.

 

[cappuccino34]

Sorry Stu, I've not been on here for a while so I wasn't aware of your battery issues.

Mine is right now after a firmware update

 

[Evolution Stu]

Good to know mate.
Would you be so kind as to hook up the App and let me know your battery capacity and firmware version?

I’ve been collating firmware numbers from tens of people all over the web and I have developed a picture of who will and wont have issues with these damn bikes now based on battery firmware.

 

[cappuccino34]

I've literally just updated it tonight, I actually had to to connect to it, you know how it is.

 

[cappuccino34]

It's a 504 battery, obviously.

 

[Evolution Stu]

Thanks.
Appreciate that pal. Yours is the first factory upgraded firmware I have collected a version number from.

May I ask, what was the turnaround time on your postal update?

 

[cappuccino34]

Thanks.
Appreciate that pal. Yours is the first factory upgraded firmware I have collected a version number from.

May I ask, what was the turnaround time on your postal update?

I didn't send it, it did whatever it did through the app.

Previously, I could make it fault every time by leaving it for an hour after riding a few miles from full. Wait another couple of hours and it would work again fine.

I demonstrated it to the shop, took videos etc because it was very predicable.

Since the update, I've tried several times to make it happen and haven't been able to. I've varied the mileage ridden and also varied the resting time both ways around and it hasn't done it once.

In fairness, now I've ripped out the shitty Giant wiring and done my own, simplified loom and much better connectors, replaced the derailleur for an AXS one and changed the brakes for some that actually work properly it's been faultless.

 

[cappuccino34]

Good to know mate.
Would you be so kind as to hook up the App and let me know your battery capacity and firmware version?

I’ve been collating firmware numbers from tens of people all over the web and I have developed a picture of who will and wont have issues with these damn bikes now based on battery firmware.

As already said, the wife's got a replacement battery but I expect I would have to take it to the shop to read her firmware because I haven't done any updates on hers because we don't want the stupid mode every time on power up. Nor do we want the lights on every time either.

Since replacement, hers has been fine, but sadly it gets very little use to actually test it.

 

[Evolution Stu]

I didn't send it, it did whatever it did through the app.

Previously, I could make it fault every time by leaving it for an hour after riding a few miles from full. Wait another couple of hours and it would work again fine.

I demonstrated it to the shop, took videos etc because it was very predicable.

Since the update, I've tried several times to make it happen and haven't been able to. I've varied the mileage ridden and also varied the resting time both ways around and it hasn't done it once.

In fairness, now I've ripped out the shitty Giant wiring and done my own, simplified loom and much better connectors, replaced the derailleur for an AXS one and changed the brakes for some that actually work properly it's been faultless.

Ah, ok
Apparently only the RC1 and motor unit can update via the app.
The battery can’t be updated via the phone App allegedly, it has to go back to Giant. Or so Giant say, but I do have that in writing from Giant UK too.

That said…
Your app screenshot shows a different firmware to any I have seen, and I’ve collected about 20 so far.

Last time I checked (Just prior to Xmas) another annoyance was that the phone app showed the battery software version in a different 4 digit format to the dealer tool , making diagnosis even harder.

Example:
Software Ver. 01710 on the app, is software version 0x11 on the dealer tool.

Crazy.
I wonder if the newest version of the app changed that?
Will check tonight as I have all mine saved as screenshots.


Mine occasionally failed after lunch… would ride fine for 2hrs, stop for a bite to eat and then it wouldn’t power up. So a software update fixed that for good on yours? These machines are riddled with software issues. Infuriating.

 

[Evolution Stu]

As already said, the wife's got a replacement battery but I expect I would have to take it to the shop to read her firmware

Power the App up with the device in Airplane mode and it will work fine.
It appears to check an online repository for software updates.

I have multiple Controller and software versions in stock for test purposes.

 

[cappuccino34]

Crikey, you're more committed to doing Giant's RnD than I am, I just wanted a reliable bike that doesn't keep spoiling my rides.

I wonder why the battery can't be updated via the app? The three nodes are all on the same bus so it can't be a comms issue, and there's no spare terminal for a 'write enable' supply to use. Maybe it needs the battery power output to be on for programming voltage and can't turn it on whilst having itself updated.

I your video you say that there's a connector for the bus up by the battery lock, (red connector I think) but on my bike I'm sure that is battery power on the red wire and from memory 1.5v 'wake' on a purple (?) wire. I did wonder what the battery power wire was for, but on the early bikes it doesn't go to the charge port so maybe that red connector is to supply the programming voltage when there's no battery output present?

I've since ordered a different bike, but got messed around by a shop claiming to have stock that they didn't have, so after months of waiting and getting lied to I've cancelled the order. Cost me £256 because the twats have had me stand the cost of the currency exchange both ways, which I'm not sure is right given that it wasn't really a cancelled order, it was an unfulfilled order on their part.

 

[mmcengineer]

Thanks folks I joined here to see what the state of ebike tech was now its a bit more mature and was eyeing up a trance e , put me right off this has

 

[Evolution Stu]

I your video you say that there's a connector for the bus up by the battery lock, (red connector I think) but on my bike I'm sure that is battery power on the red wire and from memory 1.5v 'wake' on a purple (?) wire. I did wonder what the battery power wire was for, but on the early bikes it doesn't go to the charge port so maybe that red connector is to supply the programming voltage when there's no battery output present?

I've since ordered a different bike, but got messed around by a shop claiming to have stock that they didn't have, so after months of waiting and getting lied to I've cancelled the order. Cost me £256 because the twats have had me stand the cost of the currency exchange both ways, which I'm not sure is right given that it wasn't really a cancelled order, it was an unfulfilled order on their part.

I can’t remember what was on the second upper connector colour wise to be honest.
The loom is a little different to the 2019 version I originally pinned out.

I believed the LBS when they told me it was RC one causing the issues so bought myself one as a spare, then learnt the FLED-10 had ANT+ so bought one, then rejected that MY19 bike and got an MY20 with its own FLED-10 and later learnt that the early MY21’s FLED-15 was upgraded somewhat so bought one of those too, now I have a few of the damn things so have them running different hardware and firmwares just for my own education and testing of mine and my mates 4 Giant bikes (2x MY19 Trance, my own MY20 Trance and a mates MY21 Reign).

One things for sure, when they randomly die with the “wont stay on” fault, NONE of these controllers will power them up.
These later RCone units were rarely a real issue I expect. They appeared to fix the bike as it was DRY by the time the LBS gets round to installing the new one. (I don’t blame the bike shops at all, these guys are bicycle mechanics not auto electricians so can’t be expected to do any more than replace and test.)

The point my train of thought changed to firmware was when we all realised that my mates BATTERY will power ALL of them up when they die. Immediately. Every time.

Hence this topic.
This appears to be a small hardware issue that has been resolved with firmware being taught to ignore the issue and keep supplying power. I think I now pretty much know which firmwares never cut out when the hardware/moisture issue rears it’s head!

To be continued…

 

[Evolution Stu]

Crikey, you're more committed to doing Giant's RnD than I am, I just wanted a reliable bike that doesn't keep spoiling my rides.

Same here mate, but I am too invested in fixing it now to give up.
And I am stubborn.

 

[O'l Timer]

My Son and myself have just returned from our local forest trail after a 10 mile circuit. After a mile his bike "Turned off"....We both have 2021 Trance X E 29's. Tried the usual Off/ON...reseat battery....throw it...but would not turn on. Then remembered this post about changing batteries over, which we did. Both bikes turned on and we completed our ride faultlessly. When we got home we put the original batteries back into their original homes....and his would not turn on. Occasionally the Battery life LED's would come on...with the middle of the three across LED's RED...and 2nd power mode light on. Checking with the App showed Ride Control with a red cross beside it. Turned off and would not turn on again. Put my battery on and no problem. Phoned a local Giant LBS and he said it was a "water problem" and he would seal it...like all his new bikes with a Nyogel type electrical hydrocarbon grease. I asked why when we swapped batteries all was perfect, shouldn't the water problem transfer across to my bike. App was updated and probably take it back to Giant main dealer where we bought them from and see what they say. Have ....hopefully ...attached a screenshot of our battery information in case anybody interested in this thread. *** Also to say that after a couple of hours my Son's bike now has turned off/on 10 - 15 times with no problems......Perhaps it has dried out...lol ***

 

[Evolution Stu]

My Son and myself have just returned from our local forest trail after a 10 mile circuit. After a mile his bike "Turned off"....We both have 2021 Trance X E 29's. Tried the usual Off/ON...reseat battery....throw it...but would not turn on. Then remembered this post about changing batteries over, which we did. Both bikes turned on and we completed our ride faultlessly. When we got home we put the original batteries back into their original homes....and his would not turn on. Occasionally the Battery life LED's would come on...with the middle of the three across LED's RED...and 2nd power mode light on. Checking with the App showed Ride Control with a red cross beside it. Turned off and would not turn on again. Put my battery on and no problem. Phoned a local Giant LBS and he said it was a "water problem" and he would seal it...like all his new bikes with a Nyogel type electrical hydrocarbon grease. I asked why when we swapped batteries all was perfect, shouldn't the water problem transfer across to my bike. App was updated and probably take it back to Giant main dealer where we bought them from and see what they say. Have ....hopefully ...attached a screenshot of our battery information in case anybody interested in this thread. *** Also to say that after a couple of hours my Son's bike now has turned off/on 10 - 15 times with no problems......Perhaps it has dried out...lol ***

View attachment 79418

View attachment 79420

Hi,
This is what I like to hear, my data has saved someone’s ride and a long hard ride back with no power. Brilliant!

I wonder how many folk globally have ridden these expensive bikes home with no power now due to these wierd issues?

Interesting that your identical bikes have different battery hardware AND software versions eh?

Would you be so good as to workout and let me know which of thosebatteries was the one that would power BOTH bikes please?

20PF or 23PF?
The latest firmwares have changed the numbering convention which has thrown me a curveball, but If the numbering convention is working how I think it is, the answer will be 23.

 

[O'l Timer]

Spot on......the battery that is able to run both bikes is the 23PF. That seems to have the battery hardware with I imagine the year 2021. My son's bike which was bought in the summer has a prefix "date" starting 2020.......wonder if Giant can update hardware to my version. Strange that the bike is now back to normal and in 250 odd miles this is the first abnormally to have hit us. I will see what Giant have to say and pass on any info.

 

[Evolution Stu]

wonder if Giant can update hardware to my version. Strange that the bike is now back to normal and in 250 odd miles this is the first abnormally to have hit us. I will see what Giant have to say and pass on any info.

Good, Im pretty sure my little database of troublesome bikes battery firmware versions is becoming useful enough for me to spot the patterns.

Be good to know what your dealer has to say when you get a moment to return to the group after your chat. Thanks for your time and efforts on this tonight.

**Edit**
Are your batteries both 625s?

 

[O'l Timer]

Yes ...both are 625's.

 

[gbarfoot]

I have one of the first available 21 trance x's in the US. My battery software is 17PF. I've only had one issue with water after a wash where the bike failed to turn on. Besides that it's been faultless (knock on wood).

I would like to preemptively have the software updated. Can any Giant corporate dealer do it?