2019 Turbo Levo Owners Thread

[Specialized Rider Care]

Thanks for coming back @Specialized Rider Care - any hotfix for the 2019 Levo HT that also have a vey big hole in front of rear wheel as seen here:
View attachment 6979

Also, can you elaborate on the IP rating of the 2019 motors?

Thanks

Karsten

Karsten - give me a few days on the Levo HT. Will find out. With regards IP rating, the Brose Drive S Mag is rated at IP56 (see Find out more about our Drive S Mag for mountain bikes). The IP rating system isn't hugely intuitive, but Wikipedia is directionally helpful IP Code - Wikipedia.

 

[Specialized Rider Care]

Thank you for the answers. For our temporary home foam fixed, do you have a recommended foam PPI? 30, 65, etc? What are you folks using in your foam?

Looking for the best results for protection without overheating.

30 PPI (Coarse) will work well.

 

[Maastricht]

Thanks for the motor cover/ingress questions and apologies for the wait - took a week off.

Firstly, we know that this bike is going to get really wet & muddy (in fact we hope it does) and it is designed & warrantied with this in mind. All electrical connections have suitably IP-rated rubber seals, Brose motor connectors are sealed with double O-Rings and as long as all of the plugs/connectors stay fully pushed in when the bike gets wet everything will be fine. We do not recommend unplugging any of the motor connectors unless you absolutely need to, you are more likely to get dirt and moisture inside them in the process. Wash the bike with all connectors fully in place, don’t remove the battery or disconnect the battery connector when washing – for example. (You can wash an eBike with running water or a bucket and sponge, but never with a pressure washer). You should also never block the drain hole underneath the motor deliberately – this is where any water that does get in should drain out.

Secondly, during extensive field-testing on pre-production models we did experience more debris entering this area than expected. For this reason our product team made two small running changes – 1) Adding a fourth bolt to the motor cover (both sides of the cover were redesigned to add this bolt) strengthened the cover from debris entering from below and 2) Adding a shaped sponge to the inside rear of the motor housing reduced ingress of debris from above. Several thousand bikes had already been made when these running changes were made to production – we’ll update this thread when these parts are available for service. It is absolutely fine to use custom-shaped air-filter/skid-plate/moto-cross foam inside the motor cover, just be aware that the motor will get hot (up to 95°C) and for that reason you should avoid anything domestic or adhesive. (Skid-plate foam is designed to stop mud accumulation next to motor-bike engines – you can search for it online).

To answer a handful of rider questions - whilst it may look unsightly to have small leaves or mud inside the motor cover, unless these block the drain hole completely we have no concerns. As mentioned above, we’ve taken steps to reduce the debris that does get inside but we never saw any reliability or performance issues with our test bikes prior to making these running changes. In the meantime we can see riders are increasingly asking questions about basic care/preventative maintenance for eBikes and will gather some best practice to post in the maintenance thread in the near future.

A template using 10mm thick foam is shown below along with fitting instructions.
View attachment 6976
1) Remove left crank-arm and motor cover
View attachment 6977
2) Place foam between the rear motor mounts
View attachment 6978
3) Replace motor cover and torque M4 fasteners to 1Nm
4) Replace left crank-arm and torque to 40Nm

@Specialized Rider Care

First of all thanks for your response!

Just to make I understood your message correctly, you are working now on two service parts which should prevent debris from entering the motor housing:
1) Adding a fourth bolt to the motor cover (both sides of the cover were redesigned to add this bolt) strengthened the cover from debris entering from below
2) Adding a shaped sponge to the inside rear of the motor housing reduced ingress of debris from above.

Will this mean, as the issue is now officially recognized as a shortcome, that already existing 2019 riders (myself included) will receive these parts free of charge via your dealer network as soon as they are available?

 

[Madebyspencer]

@Specialized Rider Care

Thank you for the PPI.

Regarding the 4th bolt, can you provide a picture/diagram of where that has been added to the casing? Will this bolt be used to block out debris or to give more support to the motor casing to hold the debris?

Do you have a date in which the foam/ bolt was added to all bikes from XXX date and on? For instance my bike was built according to the sticker on 8/22/2018 but wasn't unboxed and sold until 10/28/2018. I know in the United States most bikes are held in your facility in Salt Lake City. Were bikes fixed that were boxed up in Salt Lake City or was the bolt and foam only a fix that could happen back at the factory upon the initial build?

Thank you

 

[Specialized Rider Care]

@Specialized Rider Care

First of all thanks for your response!

Just to make I understood your message correctly, you are working now on two service parts which should prevent debris from entering the motor housing:
1) Adding a fourth bolt to the motor cover (both sides of the cover were redesigned to add this bolt) strengthened the cover from debris entering from below
2) Adding a shaped sponge to the inside rear of the motor housing reduced ingress of debris from above.

Will this mean, as the issue is now officially recognized as a shortcome, that already existing 2019 riders (myself included) will receive these parts free of charge via your dealer network as soon as they are available?

Fully understand your question, two comments. 1) We regularly make tweaks and subtle improvements to current products, that doesn't mean we officially label these as short-comings . 2) Whilst the parts are easy for us to supply, fitting the cover involves removing the motor and it's not a simple or quick job for our retailers.

It's not fair for us to speak on behalf of independent retailers but once the parts are in the service supply chain and we've had a chance to speak with a few of them let's come back to this question.

 

[Specialized Rider Care]

@Specialized Rider Care

Thank you for the PPI.

Regarding the 4th bolt, can you provide a picture/diagram of where that has been added to the casing? Will this bolt be used to block out debris or to give more support to the motor casing to hold the debris?

Do you have a date in which the foam/ bolt was added to all bikes from XXX date and on? For instance my bike was built according to the sticker on 8/22/2018 but wasn't unboxed and sold until 10/28/2018. I know in the United States most bikes are held in your facility in Salt Lake City. Were bikes fixed that were boxed up in Salt Lake City or was the bolt and foam only a fix that could happen back at the factory upon the initial build?

Thank you

See bolt with blue dot below for a rough position, it reduces the gap/likelihood of debris getting in rather than adding support. These two running changes occurred at initial build - will check dates.

 

[R120]

Surely you should be covering the cost of retrofitting the sponge part that has not been fitted to early production bikes and compensating the dealers for the time it takes to do this?

This isnt making an improvement, its rectifying a manufacturing/design fault. You don't officially label it as a shortcoming because that would mean accepting its a fault.

An improvement is something that makes an already functioning part better. This is creating a part to solve a problem with the original design.

Having to regularly remove the motor covers isnt expected on other E-MTB'S or even other Brose motored bikes.

Not labelling something like this as a shortcoming is in effect telling early adopters of the 2019 Levo (who incidentally are probably the biggest supporters of the levo line) that they are in beta testers.

Whilst i think you have been awesome with your comprehensive responses on this and the motor noise, and we all really appreciate you taking the time to address the issues direct here on the forum, and also great that you are able to suggest an easily implementable DIY solution i really don't think expecting people to make their own piece of foam, or rely on the generosity of a retailer to install something they may not have the skills do do themselves is unfair in this situation.

My main concerns if i was a Levo owner, would firstly be if i came to sell the bike and it isnt one with the factory foam piece, its going to be a lot harder to shift, and secondly if i install my own foam piece where does that sit warranty wise if theres an issue down the line with the motor, and whatever has been done to seal the gap isnt exactly in line with the advice given on here?

If i had a Levo on order i would refuse it unless it was one of the bikes with the foam factory installed.

 

[Maastricht]

Fully understand your question, two comments. 1) We regularly make tweaks and subtle improvements to current products, that doesn't mean we officially label these as short-comings . 2) Whilst the parts are easy for us to supply, fitting the cover involves removing the motor and it's not a simple or quick job for our retailers. The sponge template above is deliberately simple to cut and retro-fit whereas the sponge part we're fitting during production is not at all easy to retro-fit.

It's not fair for us to speak on behalf of independent retailers but once the parts are in the service supply chain and we've had a chance to speak with a few of them let's come back to this question.

@Specialized Rider Care

I highly appreciate your feedback here on this forum and would like to encourage you to keep on doing this.

However I hope you will also understand my feeling when I tell you that only last Saturday I received my brand new 2019 Levo at our LBS. I went into the shop with all the pictures I collected here on the forum. I asked them kindly about their opinion. They promissed me that everything would be solved.

I paid the bike and left the shop in good faith. I now think I better could have let it there until the bike received these updates or just reject it and order the latest 2019 updated version. I now have the feeling I bought a brand new bike with shortcomes. I also doubt the noise level which we have discussed yesterday already. As I am the first 2019 rider at my LBS they don't have a reference and neither do I besides the video's shared on this forum as well. I will wait patiently but I really hope my patience will be rewarded in the end by solving the early but for me clearly 2019 shortcomes even before I paid the bike again in good faith. I expect the redesigned motor housing and adding of original factory foam if not, this will be my last Levo.

I hope you will understand my feelings and honnest opinion.

 

[LevoLover7]

@R120
+1

 

[Maastricht]

If i had a Levo on order i would refuse it unless it was one of the bikes with the foam factory installed.

I wish I had known this three days ago. I would just left it at the dealer and waited for a fresh 2019 model including the original sponge part and updated motor housing which Specialized is now fitting during 1st fit production.

 

[R120]

Yup its annoying, but its still a great bike, and at least we now know there is a solution, and the bike is fully warrantied. You should make the bike shop aware and then go enjoy the bike!

The reason this annoys me ( and to be clear i am not a levo owner, but have been very close to being one twice) is firstly that such a song and dance has been made about all the R & D that has gone into the bike, and how that justifies the extra cost, and in the first 2 months of it being launched there have been 2 major quality control/design issues, so now for me the value in the extra money the bike costs should be demonstrated in the customer service the owners get in sorting these issues, and to be fair to Specilized they have got onto of the noise issue pretty well.

Secondly what if (as i suspect the majority of levo owners aren't) you don't frequent forums like this and you are totally unaware of the issue? Are dealers going to be expected to contact owners to tell them theres a possible issue (which we may have to charge you for to sort) or are they going to be left to their own devices?

 

[r23ves]

@Specialized Rider Care Is it the intention that air flow can still pass through the sponge? Is there risk of overheating if the gap is completely blocked? Thanks

 

[Maastricht]

I share your comment that it's a great bike. However it's an expensive bike as well and when, at least I, buy a premium product I expect premium quality. This is where my frustration lies and I hope Specialized will understand this and is willing to solve the early 2019 Levo issues no matter what the costs are of the components and/or the labour involved at their dealer network. Specialized caused this issue and they now should resolve it. The bill and neither the clear shortcomes should not be passed to the early 2019 owner.

If I would now like to buy a new 2019 Levo I would be very keen for checking the correct 2019 Levo generation. Motor housing with 3 bolts? -> 1st generation! I would just leave it and walk around. Or ask the dealer to order a fresh and updated 2nd 2019 generation.

We can keep discussing this topic but in the end Specialized has to come with a proper solution for the 1st generation 2019 Levo's as well. The market will not accept motor housings with holes. Most potential customers google around and they will find this information easily causing the market value of early 2019 models to drop. I think this is the last they would like to achieve.

So I guess you are right again that Specialized Customer Service now needs to demonstrate their value to the end user as their R&D department caused this issue and not the rider.

 

[Maastricht]

Looks dead simple to do and i found the foam on amazon next day for 10 bucks so it's easier to do it myself , plus i get to look inside the cover. It's a great bike and goes like freight train so i'm not concerned.

I am asking myself why Specialized Rider Care stated in the post above:
"Whilst the parts are easy for us to supply, fitting the cover involves removing the motor and it's not a simple or quick job for our retailers. The sponge template above is deliberately simple to cut and retro-fit whereas the sponge part we're fitting during production is not at all easy to retro-fit."

If a simple DIY retro-fit solution would provide the same result as the new sponge part, why are they then fitting a more complicated "not at all easy to retro-fit" sponge part in production today? There must be a reason that they didn't choose for this quick fix in 1st production.

 

[Thomas]

....
2) Whilst the parts are easy for us to supply, fitting the cover involves removing the motor and it's not a simple or quick job for our retailers. The sponge template above is deliberately simple to cut and retro-fit whereas the sponge part we're fitting during production is not at all easy to retro-fit...

Will the customers, which are still waiting for ordered bikes, get all this updates from the factory in november shipment of Levo-s?

 

[Madebyspencer]

Looks dead simple to do and i found the foam on amazon next day for 10 bucks so it's easier to do it myself , plus i get to look inside the cover. It's a great bike and goes like freight train so i'm not concerned.

Can you share your amazon link?

 

[lenny74]

Picked up a brand new Turbo Levo 2019 base model today after an impromptu visit to well known LBS in Crowthorne. Mentioned the issues raised on the forum to the guys in the shop who pretty much dismissed it as a problem that I should not be worrying about and that their faith in Specialized meant any such problems caused by this would be rectified under warranty anyway so what's to worry about.

Translated that to go and enjoy riding the bloody bike and any problems whatsoever, bring it back and it will be sorted.

So I'm going to do exactly that rather than stressing on what might be.

 

[Travelly]

Picked up a brand new Turbo Levo 2019 base model today after an impromptu visit to well known LBS in Crowthorne. Mentioned the issues raised on the forum to the guys in the shop who pretty much dismissed it as a problem that I should not be worrying about and that their faith in Specialized meant any such problems caused by this would be rectified under warranty anyway so what's to worry about.

Translated that to go and enjoy riding the bloody bike and any problems whatsoever, bring it back and it will be sorted.

So I'm going to do exactly that rather than stressing on what might be.

I am meant to be going to that LBS to pick up my bike but I have to say I am really not sure what to do. I dont want to spend 6k on a bike with issues. It's a lot of money and I am worried.

 

[LevoLover7]

wait for MY2020 and all is sorted I will do the same....Canceled this Beta Product.

 

[lenny74]

I am meant to be going to that LBS to pick up my bike but I have to say I am really not sure what to do. I dont want to spend 6k on a bike with issues. It's a lot of money and I am worried.

Go in and have a chat with them, they can answer your concerns and you can make the decision with the bike in front of you.

I was worried about everything I'd read but to be honest what's the point, the warranty will cover any failings IF they occur and I'm sure any replacements will rectify the problem to prevent it happening again.

Get the bike, enjoy the bike, let Specialized worry about the problems

 

[LevoLover7]

Everything is correct, but it dulls the confidence in Specialized to deliver such a quality, especially for a price of 10-15 percent above the market. Because I just expect more and not that such a bike is only designed on the computer

 

[khorn]

Go in and have a chat with them, they can answer your concerns and you can make the decision with the bike in front of you.

I was worried about everything I'd read but to be honest what's the point, the warranty will cover any failings IF they occur and I'm sure any replacements will rectify the problem to prevent it happening again.

Get the bike, enjoy the bike, let Specialized worry about the problems

If I should buy a 2019 I would demand a written guarantee with a formal stamp that any defects relating to above mentioned issues, would be rectified free of cost for me. I would also demand a written guarantee that any hot fixes relating to the same issues will be applied to my bike free of charge. If not they can keep their beta product. IP 56 means nowhere near waterproof and there is a big hole directly into the holy grail..... It is just to wait for a disaster to happen sooner or later.

Karsten

 

[MattyB]

Blimey, have not popped in on this thread for a few weeks; the atmosphere has certainly changed! TBH I can’t say I am surprised; those cloying, critique free infomercials that accompanied the launch were always likely to become an embarrassment when real customers started receiving such a complex, new from the ground up bike. I don’t think I’ve ever bought a perfect product, but I’ve definitely never bought one that farts perfume like the Levo was supposed to...

I am sure that in the end the 2019 Levo will become great, maybe even a landmark product, but it is pretty clear that right now it’s a beta. Perhaps that is not surprising when you see how quickly ebikes are evolving and how fierce the competition is. Factor in the premium pricing though and I can see why so many buyers are unhappy with noisy motors, flaky paint and poorly designed motor casings. Specialized now have to take this on the chin, accept the issues and get on with fixing them for all buyers otherwise potential and current owners are going to be very reticent about buying from Spec in future.

 

[Slowroller]

If I was a Levo dealer, I'd be in the back of the shop cutting up free foam H's to make my customers happy as we speak ....

 

[All Mountain Coaching]

Well I'm glad we got a response and personally now I'm giving less shits about it than before. I'll ride the pants off the bike and if it stops working they're having it back. It's a known issue, bit noone knows if it is an issue (yet). Let's put it to the test and see. Me personally, love the bike. I'll be making no homemade mods, because it could only backfire. I'll be making no extra taking apart or cleaning routines and seeing what happens and just be busy enjoying the bike. Can we all chill and move on now?

 

[E-Biker67]

All 2019 FSR Levos has been removed from the Specialized Homepage in Germany and in Switzerland as well yesterday.

Good question what this is good for.

 

[Levo Lution]

I share your comment that it's a great bike. However it's an expensive bike as well and when, at least I, buy a premium product I expect premium quality. This is where my frustration lies and I hope Specialized will understand this and is willing to solve the early 2019 Levo issues no matter what the costs are of the components and/or the labour involved at their dealer network. Specialized caused this issue and they now should resolve it. The bill and neither the clear shortcomes should not be passed to the early 2019 owner.

If I would now like to buy a new 2019 Levo I would be very keen for checking the correct 2019 Levo generation. Motor housing with 3 bolts? -> 1st generation! I would just leave it and walk around. Or ask the dealer to order a fresh and updated 2nd 2019 generation.

We can keep discussing this topic but in the end Specialized has to come with a proper solution for the 1st generation 2019 Levo's as well. The market will not accept motor housings with holes. Most potential customers google around and they will find this information easily causing the market value of early 2019 models to drop. I think this is the last they would like to achieve.

So I guess you are right again that Specialized Customer Service now needs to demonstrate their value to the end user as their R&D department caused this issue and not the rider.

I will definitely go for four bolts bike only - should have both issues solved
or another brand... like Merida (winner of 2018 emtb test around 4500€)

 

[jemen]

...made it...

 

[LevoLover7]

...made it...
View attachment 7000

Cool can you pls. send one to Germany? I will donat via Paypal if you like Pls. send me PN if possible

 

[vannibombonato]

Thanks for the motor cover/ingress questions and apologies for the wait - took a week off.

Firstly, we know that this bike is going to get really wet & muddy (in fact we hope it does) and it is designed & warrantied with this in mind. All electrical connections have suitably IP-rated rubber seals, Brose motor connectors are sealed with double O-Rings and as long as all of the plugs/connectors stay fully pushed in when the bike gets wet everything will be fine. We do not recommend unplugging any of the motor connectors unless you absolutely need to, you are more likely to get dirt and moisture inside them in the process. Wash the bike with all connectors fully in place, don’t remove the battery or disconnect the battery connector when washing – for example. (You can wash an eBike with running water or a bucket and sponge, but never with a pressure washer). You should also never block the drain hole underneath the motor deliberately – this is where any water that does get in should drain out.

Secondly, during extensive field-testing on pre-production models we did experience more debris entering this area than expected. For this reason our product team made two small running changes – 1) Adding a fourth bolt to the motor cover (both sides of the cover were redesigned to add this bolt) strengthened the cover from debris entering from below and 2) Adding a shaped sponge to the inside rear of the motor housing reduced ingress of debris from above. Several thousand bikes had already been made when these running changes were made to production – we’ll update this thread when these parts are available for service. It is absolutely fine to use custom-shaped air-filter/skid-plate/moto-cross foam inside the motor cover, just be aware that the motor will get hot (up to 95°C) and for that reason you should avoid anything domestic or adhesive. (Skid-plate foam is designed to stop mud accumulation next to motor-bike engines – you can search for it online).

To answer a handful of rider questions - whilst it may look unsightly to have small leaves or mud inside the motor cover, unless these block the drain hole completely we have no concerns. As mentioned above, we’ve taken steps to reduce the debris that does get inside but we never saw any reliability or performance issues with our test bikes prior to making these running changes. In the meantime we can see riders are increasingly asking questions about basic care/preventative maintenance for eBikes and will gather some best practice to post in the maintenance thread in the near future.

A template using 10mm thick foam is shown below along with fitting instructions.
View attachment 6976
1) Remove left crank-arm and motor cover
View attachment 6977
2) Place foam between the rear motor mounts
View attachment 6978
3) Replace motor cover and torque M4 fasteners to 1Nm
4) Replace left crank-arm and torque to 40Nm

@Specialized Rider Care are you telling me that i should take my 7k eur bike, buy somewhere a sponge, somehow cut it accordingly to your drawing, and then place it somewhere inside my bike?

Are you serious?