Novatec crap!

[downhilllister]

That's exactly how mine failed too, gouged the small cup portion which I thought I could just replace.......wrong!! I did buff it out but was still rough and could not find replacement parts so I bought the 462 version on AliExpress with 3 cartridge bearings, same steel cassette driver and 5 pawls. It fit the hub perfectly.

like this mate.

 

[steve_sordy]

Now at 2200 miles and still no problems once I had secured the axle with Loctite blue.

 

[sdcoffeeroaster]

Now at 2200 miles and still no problems once I had secured the axle with Loctite blue.

Yes I agree that is the key, secure and lock it early so it can't loosen up riding or when you tighten the axle and it should last.

 

[Shy Ted]

There seems to be two (maybe more) issues being discussed in this thread; but my issue is the freehub pawls “sticking” getting wet or clagged up (only slightly), which causes the awful sound from the rear wheel. It hasn’t fully let me down in that I’ve had to walk home, yet. But, it starts to miss/clunk after two or three wettish rides (no dry riding available in the Pennines since September). So I’m needing to clean out the teeth/pawls/springs every two or three rides Am I doing something wrong here; I’m cleaning it with a little GT85, drying with a cotton rag, re-greasing it, adding grease around the seal, then fitting the seal back etc.....I’ve tried Novatec “contact us” twice now and I’ve also contacted Rutland (the bike supplier) still waiting for replies.
I know for some the fix is a five pawl hub, but won’t this still have the same seal issue, or is it a case of more pawls then more likelihood 3 or 4 still able to operate, whereas the 3 pawl system you get 1 or 2 not working then you’re down to just one, and the sooner it gets to none?!
I’m at the point of being tempted by a new wheel with a proven rear hub, but am hoping the bike shop or Novatec come up with a solution before I go to that expense.

 

[sdcoffeeroaster]

There seems to be two (maybe more) issues being discussed in this thread; but my issue is the freehub pawls “sticking” getting wet or clagged up (only slightly), which causes the awful sound from the rear wheel. It hasn’t fully let me down in that I’ve had to walk home, yet. But, it starts to miss/clunk after two or three wettish rides (no dry riding available in the Pennines since September). So I’m needing to clean out the teeth/pawls/springs every two or three rides Am I doing something wrong here; I’m cleaning it with a little GT85, drying with a cotton rag, re-greasing it, adding grease around the seal, then fitting the seal back etc.....I’ve tried Novatec “contact us” twice now and I’ve also contacted Rutland (the bike supplier) still waiting for replies.
I know for some the fix is a five pawl hub, but won’t this still have the same seal issue, or is it a case of more pawls then more likelihood 3 or 4 still able to operate, whereas the 3 pawl system you get 1 or 2 not working then you’re down to just one, and the sooner it gets to none?!
I’m at the point of being tempted by a new wheel with a proven rear hub, but am hoping the bike shop or Novatec come up with a solution before I go to that expense.

I had similar issues with the 5 pawl Novatec hub and only use it as a backup now because of the strange and often non-positive engagement I experienced with it. I don't really like the type of spring design they use and have had much better luck with freewheels designs like I9 where each pawl has it's own spring. I'm using a Speedtuned Exile brand (US little know CF wheel that someone gave me) hub right now with 4 pawls, a spring per pawl and it's much more positive than the Novatec and has a better seal too. Oh I use Dumonde Tech freehub grease.

 

[paul-g]

There seems to be two (maybe more) issues being discussed in this thread; but my issue is the freehub pawls “sticking” getting wet or clagged up (only slightly), which causes the awful sound from the rear wheel. It hasn’t fully let me down in that I’ve had to walk home, yet. But, it starts to miss/clunk after two or three wettish rides (no dry riding available in the Pennines since September). So I’m needing to clean out the teeth/pawls/springs every two or three rides Am I doing something wrong here; I’m cleaning it with a little GT85, drying with a cotton rag, re-greasing it, adding grease around the seal, then fitting the seal back etc.....I’ve tried Novatec “contact us” twice now and I’ve also contacted Rutland (the bike supplier) still waiting for replies.
I know for some the fix is a five pawl hub, but won’t this still have the same seal issue, or is it a case of more pawls then more likelihood 3 or 4 still able to operate, whereas the 3 pawl system you get 1 or 2 not working then you’re down to just one, and the sooner it gets to none?!
I’m at the point of being tempted by a new wheel with a proven rear hub, but am hoping the bike shop or Novatec come up with a solution before I go to that expense.

the spring is the accuator to raise the pawls to lock position.
i have found the spring is not heavy enough and replaced it with a
heavier one made from a key ring the same size (same diamiter) and
a little larger gauge so it just fits into the pawls.(larger guage normaly
heavier spring
if you get my drift.
2 are you over greasing the pawls, if you are they are liable to stick in
the closed position and not come out.
spring and grease need to be right together.

 

[Shy Ted]

I had similar issues with the 5 pawl Novatec hub and only use it as a backup now because of the strange and often non-positive engagement I experienced with it. I don't really like the type of spring design they use and have had much better luck with freewheels designs like I9 where each pawl has it's own spring. I'm using a Speedtuned Exile brand (US little know CF wheel that someone gave me) hub right now with 4 pawls, a spring per pawl and it's much more positive than the Novatec and has a better seal too. Oh I use Dumonde Tech freehub grease.

Cheers CoffeeRoaster, that’s enforced my thoughts on the seal being the main issue, so won’t bother with the 5 pawl upgrade.

the spring is the accuator to raise the pawls to lock position.
i have found the spring is not heavy enough and replaced it with a
heavier one made from a key ring the same size (same diamiter) and
a little larger gauge so it just fits into the pawls.(larger guage normaly
heavier spring
if you get my drift.
2 are you over greasing the pawls, if you are they are liable to stick in
the closed position and not come out.
spring and grease need to be right together.

Thanks Paul, I did rather lather on the grease this time just to experiment, you’re right the spring does seem a bit flimsy. Today’s short on road ride caused no problems. A wet off road one will test it.
But, I’m not going to mess with this hub any more; I’ve booked the bike into a local Focus dealer to decide whether it’s a warranty issue, if it is, then great; if not, then it’s a new hub (that fits exactly to the same pattern/dimensions as the old or go the whole hog with a new wheel.

 

[paul-g]

Cheers CoffeeRoaster, that’s enforced my thoughts on the seal being the main issue, so won’t bother with the 5 pawl upgrade.



Thanks Paul, I did rather lather on the grease this time just to experiment, you’re right the spring does seem a bit flimsy. Today’s short on road ride caused no problems. A wet off road one will test it.
But, I’m not going to mess with this hub any more; I’ve booked the bike into a local Focus dealer to decide whether it’s a warranty issue, if it is, then great; if not, then it’s a new hub (that fits exactly to the same pattern/dimensions as the old or go the whole hog with a new wheel.

yes fine but i always question these lbs as being quick fit fitters.
only interested in swapping items and taking your money.
so in escence if they change your hub you will get the same
weak spring , the same same as the old and the same problems.
i prefer to look at the problem cure.
as you have, has happened to me and the cures that i have
found have been relayed to you.
good luck

 

[roccobarocco]

Any Ideas why my Bolt on the rear axle becomes frequently lose? The whole wheel starts to wobble sideways. It's a brandnew jam2. It really bothering me.

 

[GrahamPaul]

Any Ideas why my Bolt on the rear axle becomes frequently lose? The whole wheel starts to wobble sideways. It's a brandnew jam2. It really bothering me.

Do you use a torque wrench when tightening the axle bolt? The reason that I ask is that mine came loose the one time I didn't use the torque wrench but decided that it "felt tight enough".

 

[roccobarocco]

Yes I do....

 

[Shy Ted]

Anyway.....finally got my new hub and the wheel rebuilt; Derby/Focus must recognise the issue because as soon as the bike shop techie spoke to them, they said “we’ll put a new hub in the post immediately” no explanation needed.......funnily enough, the techie who rebuilt my wheel has the same bike and his hub gave up the ghost today! And by the way, the new hub is a D462SB-SL-S3S-B12-MS basically it’s a 5 Pawl ratchet and I just hope the seal is an improvement on the previous version. Proof will be in the pudding, as they say.

 

[Billybopsbasher]

I have that same hub but with a 3 pawl freehub body. I wouldn't say the seal is any good tbh purely due to not actually having a recess for it to into... Unlike something like Hope where the seal sits into a groove both on the freehub and into the shell. Saying that, mine has proven to be reliable in the year I've had it but its just something to be aware of

 

[VanHalen]

i couldnt work out how to take the freehub body off teh axle to strip totally - how do you do this?

i popped out the outside seal and packed it full of grease which helped loads but i`d like to service it properly ideally.

 

[Billybopsbasher]

i couldnt work out how to take the freehub body off teh axle to strip totally - how do you do this?

i popped out the outside seal and packed it full of grease which helped loads but i`d like to service it properly ideally.

You should have a groove at either end of the axle which will take 17mm cone spanners to undo, then slide the axle from the hub and the freehub body should come away with the axle... Its fairly simple and self explanatory once you're inside. I make sure the pawls and ratchet ring are clean regularly and add some wetlube to the teeth instead of grease (unless you plan on riding through deep rivers or jet wash the bike).
Make sure you remember to put the washer between the freehub body and the inner hub bearing when putting back together.
Youll be amazed how easy it is

 

[SGS]

Today my hub decided that it would be nice to make horrible metallic clanging noises while free-wheeling. So I guess it's time to look for a new one. I'm considering either DT Swiss Hybrid (although not sure if it's available with Microspline) or Hope Pro 4 (which are available with Microspline)

 

[SGS]

After stripping and cleaning the freehub body - removed excess grease and used light oil instead, my hub is now a little louder while freewheeling and is also nasty noise free. Will see how long it lasts

 

[roccobarocco]

I finally decided to go for the DT-Swiss H1900 wheels, problem solved...it's all the same, the Roval wheels on my previous Spesh where equally crap just for a higher price. Had always good experience with DT- Swiss so far...


Cheers

 

[sdcoffeeroaster]

the spring is the accuator to raise the pawls to lock position.
i have found the spring is not heavy enough and replaced it with a
heavier one made from a key ring the same size (same diamiter) and
a little larger gauge so it just fits into the pawls.(larger guage normaly
heavier spring
if you get my drift.
2 are you over greasing the pawls, if you are they are liable to stick in
the closed position and not come out.
spring and grease need to be right together.

Paul I know this is an older thread but I recently found the rim cracked on the exile+ wheels I was using so I'm going to use my Novatec 462 and wondered what spring you used? Thanks

 

[Duckis]

Hi, new guy here. Bought a Jam2 6.7 Plus couple of weeks ago and from the start the hub has been making a nasty grinding noise intermittenly when not pedaling. Noticed that he lock-nut of the Novatec hub (d162sb-sl-b12-s3s-ms) was loose as I could open it with my fingers. Tried to tighten it properly which helped for a while but after that I took it for a LBS It's there now and after reading these threads about the problems with this Novatec-model, what hub would be a better upgrade if I have to buy a new one?

How about this: D462SB-SL-S3S-B12-MS – Novatec 2021 ?

Dt-swiss sounds absolutely great but it has some price also

 

[SGS]

Hi, new guy here. Bought a Jam2 6.7 Plus couple of weeks ago and from the start the hub has been making a nasty grinding noise intermittenly when not pedaling. Noticed that he lock-nut of the Novatec hub (d162sb-sl-b12-s3s-ms) was loose as I could open it with my fingers. Tried to tighten it properly which helped for a while but after that I took it for a LBS It's there now and after reading these threads about the problems with this Novatec-model, what hub would be a better upgrade if I have to buy a new one?

How about this: D462SB-SL-S3S-B12-MS – Novatec 2021 ?

Dt-swiss sounds absolutely great but it has some price also

I have changed my hubs to Hope Pro 4 and they are fantastic

 

[sdcoffeeroaster]

Hi, new guy here. Bought a Jam2 6.7 Plus couple of weeks ago and from the start the hub has been making a nasty grinding noise intermittenly when not pedaling. Noticed that he lock-nut of the Novatec hub (d162sb-sl-b12-s3s-ms) was loose as I could open it with my fingers. Tried to tighten it properly which helped for a while but after that I took it for a LBS It's there now and after reading these threads about the problems with this Novatec-model, what hub would be a better upgrade if I have to buy a new one?

How about this: D462SB-SL-S3S-B12-MS – Novatec 2021 ?

Dt-swiss sounds absolutely great but it has some price also

Yes the 462 improves the bearing issue and I just swapped out the freewheel assy on my 2018 11 speed. The spring for the pawls is still a bit weak and they do break. I know someone here came up with a spring from a key ring that worked pretty good. I'm using the dt swiss hybrid 350 now and the fixed Novatec is my backup.

 

[Duckis]

Yes the 462 improves the bearing issue and I just swapped out the freewheel assy on my 2018 11 speed. The spring for the pawls is still a bit weak and they do break. I know someone here came up with a spring from a key ring that worked pretty good. I'm using the dt swiss hybrid 350 now and the fixed Novatec is my backup.

Thanks for the info I assume my problem is currently only on the freehub-part as the grinding noise happens only when I'm not pedaling. So should I just replace the freehub-part and which models are compatible ? Or do I have to replace the whole rear hub ?

 

[sdcoffeeroaster]

Thanks for the info I assume my problem is currently only on the freehub-part as the grinding noise happens only when I'm not pedaling. So should I just replace the freehub-part and which models are compatible ? Or do I have to replace the whole rear hub ?

After a bit of research into Novatec catalogs I determined the 462 model would work for me. They did have a 3 pawl version which I did not get so mine is 5 pawl, 3 catridrge bearings, steel cassette driver, 11 speed (not 12 since I have the 2018 version Jam2), Boost compatible and fit my hub perfectly so I only needed the freewheel assy. I think I did post all of that earlier in this thread. You will need the 12 speed version. And if you have a micro spline cassette driver you'll need that option too but I doubt that's the case. I bought it from someone on AliExpress for about $70. I was not sure it was going to work until I actually installed it though, lol.

 

[Duckis]

Thanks for the info sdcoffeeroaster

Continued to hunt the grinding noise coming from my bub. I removed the back wheel and by rolling the wheel from the cassette I felt there's point where resistance is felt. So I removed the cassette and the freehub but could not find what could cause this sound:
It's quite awful and when going for a test ride I can feel that grinding sound resonating to my feet. If it's that powerful it cannot be good for any conserning other parts either. I'm now discussing returning the rear wheel to BikeDiscount.de shop where I bought the bike from. But by shipping it to them from Finland and solving the problem there it may take 1-2 months for me to get it back...

I'm now even considering buying a whole new wheel with a new hub with it. I'm just not sure what to get and what would be compatible with the new Jam2 6.7 Plus with plus-tires / micro spline / size 27.5 /12x148 boost and 12 gears. Just too much specs for me to be sure what to get

 

[sdcoffeeroaster]

Thanks for the info sdcoffeeroaster

Continued to hunt the grinding noise coming from my bub. I removed the back wheel and by rolling the wheel from the cassette I felt there's point where resistance is felt. So I removed the cassette and the freehub but could not find what could cause this sound:
It's quite awful and when going for a test ride I can feel that grinding sound resonating to my feet. If it's that powerful it cannot be good for any conserning other parts either. I'm now discussing returning the rear wheel to BikeDiscount.de shop where I bought the bike from. But by shipping it to them from Finland and solving the problem there it may take 1-2 months for me to get it back...

I'm now even considering buying a whole new wheel with a new hub with it. I'm just not sure what to get and what would be compatible with the new Jam2 6.7 Plus with plus-tires / micro spline / size 27.5 /12x148 boost and 12 gears. Just too much specs for me to be sure what to get

Did you take apart the freewheel? If it's like mine you have a damaged race that can't really be fixed. I'm assuming the freehub is using individual balls and and not cartridge bearings. I probably ran mine a little bit loose or it has some dirt get in but either way one of the races was badly damaged.

 

[Duckis]

Did you take apart the freewheel? If it's like mine you have a damaged race that can't really be fixed. I'm assuming the freehub is using individual balls and and not cartridge bearings. I probably ran mine a little bit loose or it has some dirt get in but either way one of the races was badly damaged.

I removed the freewheel and it's axle but didn't really know how to open the freewheel itself. Or actually how to remove it from it's axle either. How is that done ? Could not really see points where to loosen it from the axle. (Noob here so I really appreciate the help and information)

 

[sdcoffeeroaster]

I removed the freewheel and it's axle but didn't really know how to open the freewheel itself. Or actually how to remove it from it's axle either. How is that done ? Could not really see points where to loosen it from the axle. (Noob here so I really appreciate the help and information)

One end is held by something like a 10, 11, or 12mm hex and the other by a very thing 17 or 19mm wrench. Can't remember the sizes and I'll take my Novatec wheel down later to look for you. This video might show some of that. They are using a hex for both sides but can't remember what I needed for the novatec.


Novatec Freehub Installation - YouTube

 

[Duckis]

One end is held by something like a 10, 11, or 12mm hex and the other by a very thing 17 or 19mm wrench. Can't remember the sizes and I'll take my Novatec wheel down later to look for you. This video might show some of that. They are using a hex for both sides but can't remember what I needed for the novatec.


Novatec Freehub Installation - YouTube

Might those be just for other versions, like D462SB ? Just found this page Difference between hubs D462SB and D162SB saying: "
Hub D162SB is more economical hub and it comes with steel axle and steel cassette body which are both mounted together as one whole.
So if you want to convert you hub from one axle size to another, you need to buy such axle along with cassette body as one spare part."

Soooo...I guess there's no opening my current one But what I read the D462SB would fit this hub too. Just with it's new freehub and axle to go with the D162SB hub (?) Reason for this is that it seems quite hard to find the D162SB as many places offer just the D462SB for it.

Btw, here's the inner part of the hub as I removed the freehub and it's axle: Hub

 

[sdcoffeeroaster]

Might those be just for other versions, like D462SB ? Just found this page Difference between hubs D462SB and D162SB saying: "
Hub D162SB is more economical hub and it comes with steel axle and steel cassette body which are both mounted together as one whole.
So if you want to convert you hub from one axle size to another, you need to buy such axle along with cassette body as one spare part."

Soooo...I guess there's no opening my current one But what I read the D462SB would fit this hub too. Just with it's new freehub and axle to go with the D162SB hub (?) Reason for this is that it seems quite hard to find the D162SB as many places offer just the D462SB for it.

Btw, here's the inner part of the hub as I removed the freehub and it's axle: Hub

No the 162 comes apart just like the 462. Once you remove the assembly from the hub like you did it comes apart. They both have steel cassette drives and both come in 3 and 5 pawl versions but Focus uses the 5 pawl. The 162 has individual bearing and races that you need to grease while the 462 has 3 cartridge bearings that are sealed so it's the better option And both are the type that fit your hub. There is an 11 speed and 12 version as well. Like I said there are slots on one end for a slender wrench and I think the other end takes a hex. you adjust these for the 462 to just take the play out of the bearings on the 462 and when this comes loose as it does, then the bearings wobble and hammer the races, probably your issue. You just need to get this assembly apart now and it does come apart....but no replacement parts available other than just buying a new assy for the $70.