New XTR/XT/SLX 12 speed on ebikes

[Coburn]

Hi All

Any body have or tried the New Shimano 12 speed drivechain on an ebike?

I have heard that it work better under load which is counter to everything i have ever ridden. Saw some Shimano guy on the net saying the higher the load the better it shifts he went on to say it would work better on a ebike than a standard bike due to the increased load.

I have just got some DT Swiss HX 1501’s for my Kenevo and thinking to upgrade my standard XT drivetrain to the new 12 speed XT. I will have to change the freehub to new microspline but that’s no problem. Old XT cassette and Chain don’t last long and get bigger range on the new.

Anybody have any experience with the new 12 speed stuff? is it as good as Shimano what us to believe?

 

[iainc]

Have ridden it on some demo bikes at local shop in last week or so, very smooth and light shifting. Not convinced that 12 speed is actually a huge benefit on ebike mind you but I guess it’s the way technology is going.

 

[Rusty]

Have 12 speed on my Scott - Sram Eagle. Had Shimano 12 speed on the bike they loaned me for 8 weeks when my bike was delayed.
It is great having the big 50T when you are out in the real steep stuff and trying to not drain your battery too fast. However, personally I believe for an eMTB that 10 speed is a far better option.
I think most of the 12 speed and even 11 speed chains are too narrow for the power & torque put through them. They will need to look at the spread probably 11-36 like most of the 11 speed but with a bigger gap between 5-6 6-7 7-8 ... perhaps 11/13/15/17/19/22/25/28/32/36.

 

[Coburn]

I had the 8 speed ebike Sram kit for a while, i found the gaps between gearing slightly to big. Additionally, i had a lot of issues with the derailleur slight knock screwed with alignment and replacements were a rip off so went back to Shimano.

So i agree with the above 10 speed would probably be perfect fit for ebikes only issue for me is i want the range the 12 speed give you 10-50 having a little extra at both ends will be good.
Maybe Shimano will come up with something specific to ebikes based on the new Hyperglide+
Once i get the new 12 speed XT fitted i will put provide some feedback.

 

[R120]

I am going to give the Box 9 speed system a go when my current XT is worn out, I too didn't like the jumps on the Sram 8 speed, but I think the range and spread on the box seems pretty good, and I am keen to see if tis more maintenance free.

 

[SBFN]

I have a Scott Strike with Sram NX eagle 12v - 10-50T. I really like the 50T to save some battery and because I am out of shape. In my opinion, 10-50 is perfect for e-bikes.

I was always a big fan of Shimano and I am planning on replacing the NX Eagle to XT / XTR ( shifter, cassette, derailleurs. I don't think the 51T will make a big difference but it's always welcome.

The only downside is that I have to replace the rear hub to fit the new cassette.

Will the XT shifter and derailleur work properly with the Sram 10-50 cassette?

 

[Coburn]

Got my bike back from the shop this weekend with new DT Swiss HX 1501 wheelset and XT 12 speed drivechain.

I have always preferred Shimano over Sram for no better reason than i grew up with Shimano in the 90s. XT has always been my go to group "Quality at a sensible price" but over the last couple of years i have had my head turned a little by Sram and its greater 1x % range. I tried the Sram Ebike drivetrain with the 8 speed 11-48T cassette, range was great maybe the steps were a little large but the main issue i had was the slightest knock, shifting was screwed and needed tuning then there is the price £300 for a cassette! I tried a couple over Sram setups same result great out of the shop or after tuning then poor with the slightest knock.

Went out for first ride on XT 12 speed this morning and very happy, the range is great and you can shift under load. I saw a video online, Shimano guy talking about shifting underload with the new 12 speed drivetrains he reckons they work better with ebikes than analogue simply because load is greater.

Shifting uphill underload is odd my head is saying NO you can’t do it, but it works, for ebikes this is ideal. If the long-term reliability if good I’d say this is a game changer for ebikes.

So far nothing bad to say about it if i had to niggle about anything it would be 12 gears is maybe to many 10 speed would be fine.

 

[stiv674]

I too want to change my sram 8 speed setup, being a novice what would be required to change to the new shimano 12 speed xt setup above?

 

[Coburn]

I too want to change my sram 8 speed setup, being a novice what would be required to change to the new shimano 12 speed xt setup above?

Hi Stiv674,
The biggest issue with upgrading to 12 speed XT is the Freehub is different Shimano have developed a new Freehub called microslpine which the cassette mounts on. currently only a few wheel manufacturers are licensed by Shimano to use the microspline hub, DT Swiss, Mavic etc so if you want to upgrade to 12 speed Shimano kit suggest you contact your local bike shop to check if your rear hub is compatible.
Shimano are gradually licensing other manufacturers so i doubt it will be long before companies like Hope and Stans are using it.
Apart from the microspline hub you just need cassette, derailleur, and shifter.

 

[stiv674]

Hi Stiv674,
The biggest issue with upgrading to 12 speed XT is the Freehub is different Shimano have developed a new Freehub called microslpine which the cassette mounts on. currently only a few wheel manufacturers are licensed by Shimano to use the microspline hub, DT Swiss, Mavic etc so if you want to upgrade to 12 speed Shimano kit suggest you contact your local bike shop to check if your rear hub is compatible.
Shimano are gradually licensing other manufacturers so i doubt it will be long before companies like Hope and Stans are using it.
Apart from the microspline hub you just need cassette, derailleur, and shifter.

Hi, thanks for your reply.

That might make it rather expensive then, I have Raceface wheels on my Focus and seems they aren't licensed at the moment.

The ability to change gear under load sounds good.

 

[SBFN]

I too want to change my sram 8 speed setup, being a novice what would be required to change to the new shimano 12 speed xt setup above?

You will need the shifter, rear derailleur ( long cage ), cassete 10-51t and maybe a new rear hub, depends on what you have right now. But it was already explained on the other reply.

 

[stiv674]

You will need the shifter, rear derailleur ( long cage ), cassete 10-51t and maybe a new rear hub, depends on what you have right now. But it was already explained on the other reply.

Thanks, it might be a trip to my lbs...

 

[MattyB]

...Went out for first ride on XT 12 speed this morning and very happy, the range is great and you can shift under load. I saw a video online, Shimano guy talking about shifting underload with the new 12 speed drivetrains he reckons they work better with ebikes than analogue simply because load is greater.

Shifting uphill underload is odd my head is saying NO you can’t do it, but it works, for ebikes this is ideal. If the long-term reliability if good I’d say this is a game changer for ebikes.

I can believe it’s possible to design a cassette that shifts better under load by adding ramps in both directions. The bit I’m struggling with is whether doing so is really a good idea.

It might work ok fresh out of the box, but for how long? Unless Shimano have discovered a new ultra durable yet affordable unobtainium metal it will surely wear out faster, and it’s not like current cassettes are known for their long life on ebikes. A cynic might even suggest such a recommendation is designed to shift (pardon the pun) some extra cassettes...

 

[SBFN]

Thanks, it might be a trip to my lbs...

I am in the same process of updating it from Sram to Shimano XT but when find out I have to replace also the rear hub, it let me down.

Maybe in a near future.

 

[DrStupid]

I have a Scott Strike with Sram NX eagle 12v - 10-50T. I really like the 50T to save some battery and because I am out of shape. In my opinion, 10-50 is perfect for e-bikes.

I was always a big fan of Shimano and I am planning on replacing the NX Eagle to XT / XTR ( shifter, cassette, derailleurs. I don't think the 51T will make a big difference but it's always welcome.

The only downside is that I have to replace the rear hub to fit the new cassette.

Will the XT shifter and derailleur work
properly with the Sram 10-50 cassette?

SRAM <-> Shimano 12-Speed Compatibility?- Mtbr.com

Based on what these guys are saying... yes, it will work.

I've got the XT 11 mated with a sunrace on my KHS 6555+ and its magic compared to GX 12 speed on my Trance. I do mis the range when doing steep technical climbs but the shifting, oh the shifting.

Sunrace CSMZ903 11-51 12 Speed Cassette

Sunrace makes a 12 speed Cassette compatable with the standard free hubs as well. I think I like the PG-1230 sram cassette for standard free hubs over the sunrace however, becuase it's all steel. The sunrace 12 speed for standard hubs, that I can find all have the aluminum larger cogs, and in my limited experience, the aluminum cogs are prone to snap teeth off.

Bottom line is, you can do 12 speeds with a standard free hub, my gaint Trance is just this setup, but the small cog will be an 11T not a 10T.

 

[DrStupid]

We review the enormous 1x11 11-50t MX80 cassette from SunRace

I also found this helpful. It's getting a little off the thread topic, but as I consider upgrading two 11 sp bikes to 12 sp, at least one of them will be a perfect fit for a super wide range 11sp. For $66, We can get nearly eagle 12 sp range from an 11 sp XT on a standard free hub.

 

[nepper]

I started to upgrade my 10 spd M6000 Deore setup to XT/SLX 12 speed mix. I was a bit surprised that the E8000 chainring is totally incompatible with new chain.

I knew that Shimano changed the chain a bit so many of old style narrow wide rings required use of SRAM Eagle quick connector. SM-CRE80 chainring is not going to get 12 spd compatible with just a change of quick link! It rejects the chain after few links.

Had to order RaceFace shimano compatible 104 bcd chainring as there was no 12 spd E8000 chainrings available without whole spider assembly.

 

[Coburn]

Got my bike back from the shop this weekend with new DT Swiss HX 1501 wheelset and XT 12 speed drivechain.
View attachment 18971

I have always preferred Shimano over Sram for no better reason than i grew up with Shimano in the 90s. XT has always been my go to group "Quality at a sensible price" but over the last couple of years i have had my head turned a little by Sram and its greater 1x % range. I tried the Sram Ebike drivetrain with the 8 speed 11-48T cassette, range was great maybe the steps were a little large but the main issue i had was the slightest knock, shifting was screwed and needed tuning then there is the price £300 for a cassette! I tried a couple over Sram setups same result great out of the shop or after tuning then poor with the slightest knock.

Went out for first ride on XT 12 speed this morning and very happy, the range is great and you can shift under load. I saw a video online, Shimano guy talking about shifting underload with the new 12 speed drivetrains he reckons they work better with ebikes than analogue simply because load is greater.

Shifting uphill underload is odd my head is saying NO you can’t do it, but it works, for ebikes this is ideal. If the long-term reliability if good I’d say this is a game changer for ebikes.

So far nothing bad to say about it if i had to niggle about anything it would be 12 gears is maybe to many 10 speed would be fine.
View attachment 18972

An update on how the new XT is performing a couple months down the road;

All good no bad news to report.

Wear on the cassette is less than the old XT kit which is good.

I did have some noise last month but it turned out to be the specialized chainring had worn and was holding the chain at the bottom and making an awful noise so i put a new one on and its all quiet again.

The 500% range is great particularly the 10t at the bottom given me just a little more speed going downhill without spinning out

 

[Darren]

I have the SLX 10-51 12 speed cassette and XT derailleur but as it's my first emtb I've nothing to compare it to.

It doesn't seem shifting under load is a feature - I've only done it occasionally by accident and it doesn't feel good and clonks as you would expect.

 

[Indigo]

It doesn't seem shifting under load is a feature - I've only done it occasionally by accident and it doesn't feel good and clonks as you would expect.

The chain might be directional. If the markings on the link plates are all on one side and not the other, then that side must be on outer-side of bike. eg. directional HG-X11 road chain install video

Or you might not have a HYPERGLIDE+ chain. Bike manufacturer choose not to spec the new chain and matching chainring.

 

[Darren]

Thanks Indigo - I've checked and I do have an HG chain (fitted correctly) and HG cassette so it should work.
Now I know it's designed to shift under load I will do some more deliberate shifts to see how it goes. Well I will if this torrent of rain ever stops.

 

[Coburn]

My XT kits shifts well under load, you do get the clonk noise but no teeth chewing noises.


I previously had the old XT and if i shifted that under load you knew about if both from the noise and missing teeth!

 

[DrStupid]

My XT kits shifts well under load, you do get the clonk noise but no teeth chewing noises.


I previously had the old XT and if i shifted that under load you knew about if both from the noise and missing teeth!

The cassette must be the part that makes it all shift great under load. I've tried all the other pieces separately, and as a system lacking only the micro spline cassette, and found it no better than the 11 speed under load or otherwise.

 

[Gary]

The cassette must be the part that makes it all shift great under load. I've tried all the other pieces separately, and as a system lacking only the micro spline cassette, and found it no better than the 11 speed under load or otherwise.

the M8100 chain AND M8100 cassette work together to improve shifting.
The mech does nothing new really. Neither does the shifter

 

[Northumbrian]

I have the Shimano 12 speed on my E Cube Stereo, biggest improvement is the gearing range, but to be honest, on an e bike its not that relevant.
Shifting under load.... I don’t see the point, ( unless your racing) just back off and save the drive train.
typical tho of anything new, cost, spare link for the chain £8..... Maybe thats a pair, but FFS !..... 11 speed drive train would do me, maybe even 10..... but hey ho
( oh, comparing it to my Vitus 11 speed, not a lot of difference apart from the lower ratio)

 

[DrStupid]

the M8100 chain AND M8100 cassette work together to improve shifting.
The mech does nothing new really. Neither does the shifter

Must b

I have the Shimano 12 speed on my E Cube Stereo, biggest improvement is the gearing range, but to be honest, on an e bike its not that relevant.
Shifting under load.... I don’t see the point, ( unless your racing) just back off and save the drive train.
typical tho of anything new, cost, spare link for the chain £8..... Maybe thats a pair, but FFS !..... 11 speed drive train would do me, maybe even 10..... but hey ho
( oh, comparing it to my Vitus 11 speed, not a lot of difference apart from the lower ratio)

I am loving my 10 speed xt setup on the Trance.

 

[Jirkovo]

I have 11 speeds E13 9-46

 

[sean00stone]

Hi all, has anyone information as to the possibility of placing a micro-spline freehub onto the hub of Specialised levo's? (I do not know who make the Specialised hub) I specifically have a Levo Comp.

 

[salko]

Hi all, has anyone information as to the possibility of placing a micro-spline freehub onto the hub of Specialised levo's? (I do not know who make the Specialised hub) I specifically have a Levo Comp.

I'm interested in same thing. I believe hubs are Formula on Comp.

 

[steve_sordy]

Even if my set up allowed for "shifting under load" I believe that I am temperamentally unsuited to do so.
Too much mechanical sympathy.