RM.SGO
Active member
Curious to hear any first hand experience. I see some pretty impressive reviews (Loam Wolf) but then hear about durability issues. Please share!
Zipp 3Zero Moto Wheels
- Thread starter RM.SGO
- Start date
orangeknuckles
New Member
I've been riding them for over 4,000 km on my Rocky Mountain Powerplay, and they're incredibly durable. They've been through everything, from Finale Ligure to the bike park and the Alps. However, the rear wheel had to be trued twice. Otherwise, there's nothing to pass. I also have to mention that I'm not riding them with Zipp hubs, but with Onyx racing hubs.
Rod B.
E*POWAH Master
RM. SGO,
I've been running Zipp 3 Zero Moto wheels for the past several years. Much like Orangeknuckles' response, my Zipp 3 Zero Moto's are custom built. I set my wheels up with D.T. Swiss 350 hubs and Sapim Race spokes. My 29 inch front wheel has about 6,000 miles (9,650 Km) on it. I use two different configurations of Zipp 3 Zero Moto for the rear wheel. I have a 27.5 inch Zipp rear wheel on my Specialized Turbo Levo. The wheel has 3,300 miles (5300 Km) on it. I also run a 29 inch Zipp rear wheel on my Pivot Shuttle AM. The wheel has 1,750 miles (2,816 Km) on it. In regards to durability, I've beat the living piss out of the wheels with no issues.
I have no experience with using SRAM factory built Zipp 3 Zero Moto wheels. I prefer to custom build my wheels. This allows me to specify the rim, spoke, nipple and hub combination. It's been my experience that D.T. Swiss 350 hubs are built like a brick shithouse and pretty much indestructable. Sapim Race spokes are strong and I have yet to snap a Race spoke.
With eBike motors becoming more powerful, there is a tendency for rear wheel spoke "Wind up" to occur when hammering the pedals on a punchy climb or technical section. The tensioning and untensioning of the rear wheel spokes due to motor torque will eventually cause thinner spokes to break at the J bend or where the straight spoke threads into the hub. This may be the cause of the durability issues that you speak of. The thicker Sapim Race spokes are not as prone to spoke wind up as compared to the lighter D-Lights or CX-Ray spokes. There is a bit of a weight penalty when running the heavier Sapim Race spokes and 350 hubs. My Zipp 3 Zero wheelset weighs in the area of 2150 grams. However, I would say that the gains in durability offset the weight penalty.
The Zipp 3 Zero Moto is a unique rim due to it's single wall rim design. Because of the single wall design the spokes must be tensioned to 115 kgf on the Rear drive-side and front non-drive spokes. If proper spoke tension is not maintained there will be issues with durability and wheel performance.
Most mountain bike rims, i.e. Reynolds, Nobl, We Are One, Reserve, Enve, etc. have a double wall design. The double wall design allows carbon wheels to be both laterally and vertically stiffer than alloy wheels. The increased stiffness means less energy is lost due to wheel flex when driving out of a turn. On the other hand, some carbon wheels can be too stiff. An overly stiff carbon wheel leads to a harsh ride and steering issues, i.e. the front wheel doesn't track straight when pinging off of trails rocks.
It's been my experience that the single wall rim design of the Zipp Moto rim offes a softer and more compliant ride than a traditional carbon rim. I would describe the ride quality to be similar to an alloy rim but with the durability of a carbon rim. The rim conforms well to the trail and it tracks straight when pinging through the rocks. I destroyed my right ankle several years ago in a really bad accident. I now have an ankle prosthetic. Because of my disability and the type of terrain I ride, I need a wheel that is super strong, yet compliant and forgiving. The Zipp Moto serves my needs well.
Nothing in life is perfect. You gain some, you lose some. The Zipp 3 Zero Moto wheel is not the perfect choice of wheel if you prefer a stiff carbon wheel which you can use to generate energy and push when driving hard out of a turn or popping off of a trail kicker. You will lose a slight bit of energy with the Zipp Moto. On the other hand, you also won't get beat to death when driving through brake holes or heavily eroded trail sections.
Grafton Mesa trail on my Zipps
Big Chief trail, Truckee California
The Loam Wolf review is accurate and you should believe the review.
Review: Zipp 3Zero Moto Carbon Wheels
The Zipp 3Zero Moto carbon mtb wheels offer a compliant and sensitive ride quality that translated to comfort and traction on the trail.
theloamwolf.com
Be safe,
Rod
Hi Rod, great review, thank you. I also plan on building these myself, probably into Hope Pro 5s. I concur with your spoke observations and will likely also go Sapim Race. Which type of nipples have you used? I thought something low profile would be good, rather than the double squares I usually use. I also like to use a driver instead of a spoke key so the hex head you’re using is appealing to me, which brand and model are you using here?
many thanks
many thanks
Rod B.
E*POWAH Master
GZA,
How are things in Hertfordshire? I always like to hear what the riding is like in the many places to ride around the world. What's your area like?
In regards to my Zipp 3 Zero Moto wheelset. I really like Zipp 3 Zero Moto wheels. They are one of the best wheelsets I've ever owned. I've beat the living shit out of the wheelset and the wheels are still going strong after 5,000 miles of hard use.
Due to a bad accident, I have an ankle prosthetic in my right ankle. When I pound down rutted trails or rock gardens, my ankle takes a beating and it can hurt badly at times. I built up my 3 Zero Moto wheels to be bomb proof, but also exceptionally complaint. My ankle thanks me for the courtesy....
The single wall design of the Zipp 3 Zero Moto provides the complaince I need. Traditional carbon rims have a double wall design and tend to be teeth rattling stiff. Carbon rims by their nature are less prone to rim damage due to rocks strikes or a poorly timed bunny hop over a curb or log. The rarity with the Zipp 3 Zero Moto rim is that they are strong like carbon but very complIant like an alloy wheel. The complaint nature of the rim/wheel allows for excellent traction. In other words, you're not pinging off of rocks like you would on a traditional double wall carbon rim.
Nothing in life is perfect.....you win some, you lose some. If you are the type of rider who likes to generate energy by using the wheel to snap out of turns, then the Zipp 3 Zero Moto is not for you. The complaint and forgiving nature of the single wall rim means you lose a bit of energy when snapping out of a turn or off a trail kicker. The loss of energy is not drastic, but it's there. If you are the type of riding that values traction and a softer complaint feel as opposed to snappy wheel energy, then the 3 Zero Motor is a rim you should consider.
For my wheel build, I used DT Swiss 350 hubs coupled with Sapim Race spokes. For spoke nipples I used Sapim brass "Secure Lock" nipples. Due to the 3 Zero Moto's single wall rim, the nipples need to be reinforced with Sapim "HM" cupped nipple washers.
I want to point out that I am not a professional wheel builder. My idea of wheel building is to rub two chicken bones over a wheel, say a few voodoo words and keep my fingers crossed while hoping things turn out okay. Yes, that's a bit of a stretch, but I do like to use my local wheelbuilder about what I hope to gain in a new wheel build and the parts I need to achieve the goal. Here is an excellent YouTube video made by Elevation Wheel Building Company. The video depicts a Zipp 3 Zero Moto wheel build.
Important Note: Because the 3 Zero Moto is a single wall rim design, the spokes are fully exposed, i.e. sticking out of the rim wall. If you plan to go tubeless with sealant (Of course you are), the wheel will require a slightly different rim taping process. You Zipp rim requires the use of a small nylon rim strip. The rim strip goes directly over the spoke nipples. You then apply two full layers of rim tape over the nylon rim strip. Using this taping process will prevent sealant leakage via the spoke nipples. Your new rim will come with the rim strip kit in the packing box however, if you buy your rims from a shop, the taping kits may be missing from the box. You can purchase the taping kits online.
In regards to rear wheel hubs, what is strong enough for use on a traditional pedal bike is not neccessarily strong enough for use on a modern ebike. eMTB weight, motor torque, and the extended ride range that an eBike provides, all have an impact on long term component and tire performance. In other words, the shit wears out faster on an eBike.
I am not familiar with the Hope 5S Pro hub. I like Hope products. I find they are well designed, robust and they hold up well to trail abuse. Here is what I would suggest. Every year, new eBike motors are being introduced, i.e. DJI Avinox, Bosch Gen 5, Shimano EP801, etc. At one point 30Nm of power was good, then 50Nm, then 60Nm, followed by 85Nm and now 105Nm. Motor toraue places a tremndous strain on wheel hub bearings and freehub engagement. Whichever rear wheel hub you decide upon, makes sure the hub can be easily maintained and serviced by you. Equally important, make sure that servicable repair parts are readily available and that the freehub can go the distance. Nobody likes a paper weight sitting in the garage while you wait three weeks for parts to arrive.
Be safe,
Rod
P.S.
I just got back from a quick three day bike trip to Utah. Here are a few pictures if anybody wishes to view them. On day one, my buddies and I rode the Blow Hard trail in Brian Head Utah. The upper section of Blow Hard was fast and loose. The lower section featured a lot of trail kickers, berms and flow trail. On day two we rode Tilted Mesa. Tilted Mesa is a fairly new trail system located near Kanab Utah. The trails on Tilted Mesa are mostly easy intermediate level and tended to be fairly mellow with a few technical sections to keep things interesting. On day three we rode the beautiful but technical, Gooseberry Mesa, located near Zion National Park.
For those interested in a bike trip to Southern Utah, here is a nice article on riding the Zion area. If you have any questions about your trip and or what rides to do, shoot me a message and I'll help you with your trip planning.
Blow Hard Trail, Brian Head Utah. On this bike trip, I ran D.T. Swiss XMC 1501 wheels with 240 hubs and Maxxis Assegai 2.5 tires front and rear. I have a Fox 36, Grip X2, on the front and a Fox X2 rear shock with custom damper tuning.
The scenery surrounding the Brian Head area is incredible
Blowhard exits out of this small canyon
Tilted Mesa, Kanab Utah. The riding on Tilted Mesa is mellow. You can take a beginner mountain biker on this trail system without fear they'll be badly hurt. I enjoy technical rock riding, but it was a nice change of pace being able to just relax on the bike and enjoy the trail and scenery.
Gooseberry Mesa, Zion Utah. The Goose is a special place. Riding along the rim is an incredible experience. The single track twists and turns amongst the many technical rock sections. The rim of the mesa in many places is only a few feet from the edge of the trail. The surface of Gooseberry Mesa was at one point, the floor of a large tree covered inland swamp. As you ride you can see the remains of pertified logs embedded in the mud which is now rock. Riding on the Goose consists of dropping in and out of the many smooth rock bowls and rocky ledges formed by water and erosion. Excellent bike handling skills are required to successfully negotiate the trails on Gooseberry.
If you look to the lower left side of the picture, you will see a white dot. This is the trail, you follow the white dots.
Follow the white dots.......
View attachment IMG_5302.JPG
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