YT DECOY - The loam wolf shredder winner

[JonasH]

What you going to do next year with no warranty?

Got a replacement motor, guessing that also have a 2 year warranty? So i'm good to for 2022, by end of 2022 it will probably be upgraded to a new bike anyway. Btw just recorded the the motor sound, LBS got a replacement motor in less than a week, made the swap in 2 hours, motor was never caput so i only lost 2hr of potential ride time. Guess this also depend on your local LBS e.g Berkshire in UK. That kind of quick resolve you would probably never get from a direct to consumer brand, or a shimano service center?

 

[Fx1]

No. What do you anticipate the process will be if you need to warranty your motor once the Shimano 2 year period has expired?

Tell YT to supply a new one to me free of charge. Citing consumer rights act.

Products should last a reasonable time (6 years) also be fit for purpose ( not break during normal use)

If they refuse to repair or replace the motor then file a claim in the county court for £70. Have them summonsed to the UK which is the jurisdiction covering the consumer. Then they can explain to a judge how a £5000 bike is now useless because of a faulty motor.

So far not one company has ever gone to court every company has refunded me replaced the item. The only company that did go to court was Redrow homes and they lost and paid me £3750 to rectify a problem with my garden on my new house. But that wasn't the consumer act I did that under breach of contract laws and was far more complicated. They did send a barrister from a london chambers and 2 solicitors though and still lost to me on my own.

Most people dont realise that warranty is with the manufacturer. Consumer rights are with the retailer. Martin lewis has a good guide online. Every retailer tells you no at first. Then the court papers arrive (takes 5 mins online to file) then see how fast their attitude changes.

 

[Fx1]

Warranty and consumer rights are different. Warranty is a minimum for 2 years inside the EU. Consumer rights are actually not limited but something of high value is 6 years or more. Consumer rights are contract rights with the person you paid for the goods. If the manufacturer is also the retailer then essentially your warranty is 6 years or more in effect. The burden of proof is different but I have yet to see a company come to court to argue. It's too expensive to fight for them.

I'm sorry but this is just not correct. Your understanding of 'warranty' is different to that used in that EU Directive.

The EU Directive states that each member state must allow a consumer at least two years to seek a remedy from a seller. Not a warranty.

Yes I know. But I'm trying to keep it simple for people who may not understand the differences. I did explain that further up. And no its not 2 years. That's EU warranty. Consumer act the time is not limited but generally 6 years on expensive goods

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Yes I know. But I'm trying to keep it simple for people who may not understand the differences. I did explain that further up.

OK.

You do have a point with such an expensive purchase and I also think that a court would be hard pressed to side with a bike manufacturer on something so expensive (a eMTB in this case) that didn't last a reasonable length of time.

Considering the intended purpose of an EMTB it would be reasonable (IMO) for it to at least last a good few years.

 

[Fx1]

What you going to do next year with no warranty?

Got a replacement motor, guessing that also have a 2 year warranty? So i'm good to for 2022, by end of 2022 it will probably be upgraded to a new bike anyway. Btw just recorded the the motor sound, LBS got a replacement motor in less than a week, made the swap in 2 hours, motor was never caput so i only lost 2hr of potential ride time. Guess this also depend on your local LBS e.g Berkshire in UK. That kind of quick resolve you would probably never get from a direct to consumer brand, or a shimano service center?

You wouldn't get it from most bike shops either. I can tell you that 3 of my local shops carry no spare motors. This is what put me off the Kenevo.

Also unless they specifically state that your new warranty replaced motor comes with a new 2 years from date of repair then you need to double check. That is not normal practice. Replacement parts usually carry a very short warranty of 3 to 6 months. If specialized state this in their warranty terms then that is a good thing. You would need to check them carefully and some specialized marketing employee who says this doesnt count either.

 

[R120]

I understand the premise, just have difficult seeing the real world application ( I work in construction and have spent a lot of time in court/with lawyers where we have taken developers/contractors/suppliers etc to task over faulty workmanship or contractual defects and the other side haven't really understood the law or their contractual liabilities).

It would be interesting to see what would happen in such a scenario with an emtb, and it would also be interesting to see what the contract is between a bike brand and a component supplier and how that deals with such a scenario, and whether or not the motor is considered a consumable. The battery for example is considered a consumable item, but is also covered by a warranty against defects.

When I warrantied my motor, because it was direct with Shimano it was considered a component replacement, and as such the new component (the motor) came with a new 2 year warranty as that is their standard period for that component - as my LBS fitted the motor, their is no wider associated warranty on the installation with Vitus or Shimano regarding the overall system , and from CRC's perspective my bike has a two year warranty covering the original installation, but not the new component.

If I had warrantied the whole bike with CRC, according to them I would not have got the new motor warranty, as they viewed it as work within the existing warranty, rather than a new replacement bike.

Definitely a grey area with a real lack of quality information.

 

[Fx1]

Yes I know. But I'm trying to keep it simple for people who may not understand the differences. I did explain that further up.

OK.

You do have a point with such an expensive purchase and I also think that a court would be hard pressed to side with a bike manufacturer on something so expensive (a eMTB in this case) that didn't last a reasonable length of time.

Considering the intended purpose of an EMTB it would be reasonable (IMO) for it to at least last a good few years.

This is what I'm trying to inform people of. This is also why I'm reluctant to buy from a mom and pop shop trying to make a living. The legal problem lands right on their door step and manufacturers can just refuse to help the shop. The power imbalance between them is vast.

I would not be comfortable landing it on their door step but I'd also not be happy with a 5 grand paper weight.

I know that service will be slow from YT. But I also know that if this bikes a lemon and I want it refunded then chances are that even 3 or 4 years down the line YT would refund me to get rid of me.

 

[Fx1]

I understand the premise, just have difficult seeing the real world application ( I work in construction and have spent a lot of time in court/with lawyers where we have taken developers/contractors/suppliers etc to task over faulty workmanship or contractual defects and the other side haven't really understood the law or their contractual liabilities).

It would be interesting to see what would happen in such a scenario with an emtb, and it would also be interesting to see what the contract is between a bike brand and a component supplier and how that deals with such a scenario, and whether or not the motor is considered a consumable. The battery for example is considered a consumable item, but is also covered by a warranty against defects.

When I warrantied my motor, because it was direct with Shimano it was considered a component replacement, and as such the new component (the motor) came with a new 2 year warranty as that is their standard period for that component - as my LBS fitted the motor, their is no wider associated warranty on the installation with Vitus or Shimano regarding the overall system , and from CRC's perspective my bike has a two year warranty covering the installation, but not the new component.

If I had warrantied the whole bike with CRC, according to them I would not have got the new motor warranty, as they viewed it as work within the existing warranty, rather than a new replacement bike.

Definitely a grey area with a real lack of quality information.

This is where you have to be careful.

Companies dont get any protection.

New houses and such are not protected under consumer act. (My redrow homes example)

Example: you buy a toaster made by Panasonic. Sold by currys. 12 month warranty. Faulty at 6 months old. Panasonic replace item via currys.

But if its faulty at 18 months old then currys repairs or replace and currys foot the bill. Panasonic not involved. There is a burden of proof element to this and you might say a toaster isnt worth the hassle. But if it was a £1000 toaster then you would say to currys that the toaster broke under normal use for which it was intended and clearly is either not fit for purpose or has a design or manufacturing fault. Currys tells you to bugger off...

Then you say ok we will ask a judge to decide if he thinks a £1000 toaster should last 18 months when all you have used it for is making toast 5 times per week.

Currys knows they will lose this argument as the law protects ONLY INDIVIDUALS (not companies this is why your example above is different) so they refund or replace.

10/10 tell you no at first.
8/10 cave in when they know you know the law and can make a half decent argument.
2/10 wait for court papers then fold.
1/10000 will go to court and argue
1/100000000 will likely win that argument.

 

[Fx1]

This is a good guide
Consumer Rights

Its not the whole story though as you will find that even if you are wrong you will likely still win just because it would cost £1000s for them to argue and even if you are partly right you still win some money plus your costs back.

 

[Fx1]

And if you have grasped the above now.

Advanced tip:

Buy on credit card. Over £100 and the credit card company is jointly liable!

So even if YT play hard ball then I can promise you that VISA will take action. VISA then deducts the amount from YTs account and refunds your card. YT wouldn't even get a say in the matter.

This is why YT would send you a motor free of charge asap because it's much worse for them if they dont...

If you know the above... most dont.

 

[Doomanic]

Doesnt change. Consumer act is UK law. Sell in the UK you are bound by those laws.

It's just occured to me that they don't sell in the UK. They sell in Germany and ship to the UK.

 

[Fx1]

Doesnt change. Consumer act is UK law. Sell in the UK you are bound by those laws.

It's just occured to me that they don't sell in the UK. They sell in Germany and ship to the UK.

This is why you use the credit card. That makes them jointly liable. You can choose to enforce via section 75 refund up to 6 years in the UK.

I believe you can claim against for example YT before 2021 but after 2021 it's best to use section 75.

Credit card companies then deal with the retailer and basically force them to act or refund you directly.