YT DECOY - The loam wolf shredder winner

[Stray cat]

One of the weird thing in the test is the short feeling on the Orbea and resulting skittishness on downhills. I demoed a large one and felt exactly the same, loved everything else about it but that feeling on the steep stuff out me off.
I demoed a trick rail and it was totally the opposite, felt amazing going down the steep stuff but they have put the rail in the next “Trail bike test”.

Interesting. I am in between these two. What about Trek Rail on mellower trails?
.
I am looking for an all rounder,but I read somewhere Trek Rail was too oriented to downhills but cumbersome on easier trails.

 

[Paul Mac]

Why Specialized have done, and lead the market with, is EMTB design and integration.

Whether you like them or not, there is no other brand out there building bikes with as much synergy and integration, both in terms of the motor and bikes, the software, and the user interaction.

I am no massive fan of the brand, but they are years ahead of anyone else in terms of the products they are putting out.

They may not be the most reliable, offer great value, or be everyone’s cup of tea, but they are the benchmark.

Err not according to this review?

 

[R120]

I am not saying the Specilized is the best riding EMTB, that's totally not my point, my point is that in terms of integration, software and overall approach they are ahead of anyone else. Their overall package, and thought that has gone into it is better than anyone else at the moment.

Take the software, Bosch doesn't even have an app you can change the settings with, the Shimano one is very basic, the mission control software is better than anything else out there right now.

They integration of the battery, controls, and motor system into a frame that looks half decent is also ahead of anyone else, because they use a bespoke system they can achieve this, whereas everyone else is reliant on using a kit of parts from a third party.

I wouldn't get one because I dont like the geometry, and I want a bike I trust not to break down, but in terms of emtb development, technology and pushing the boundaries, they are still far in front of the rest of the industry.

By all means dont like them, but they are leading the way when it come to EMTB development.

 

[Fx1]

I am not saying the Specilized is the best riding EMTB, that's totally not my point, my point is that in terms of integration, software and overall approach they are ahead of anyone else. Their overall package, and thought that has gone into it is better than anyone else at the moment.

Take the software, Bosch doesn't even have an app you can change the settings with, the Shimano one is very basic, the mission control software is better than anything else out there right now.

They integration of the battery, controls, and motor system into a frame that looks half decent is also ahead of anyone else, because they use a bespoke system they can achieve this, whereas everyone else is reliant on using a kit of parts from a third party.

I wouldn't get one because I dont like the geometry, and I want a bike I trust not to break down, but in terms of emtb development, technology and pushing the boundaries, they are still far in front of the rest of the industry.

By all means dont like them, but they are leading the way when it come to EMTB development.

Apps are not that important and they are not that hard to make if you put some money in.

Battery tech has caught up with the new 625 Bosch and YT has their own.

Motors are far more reliable from shimano and bosch.

I'd say 2021 is the first year where specialized has real competition from multiple brands.

The reason they are trading so heavily on the SL is because that's one area they are ahead.

 

[Doomanic]

Battery tech has caught up with the new 625 Bosch

Even though I have one, I'm going to have to disagree. All Bosch have done is use more cells to get the higher capacity, Spesh have used newer, more powerful cells to get the additional capacity. The Bosch is a 10S5P pack using 18650 cells to get 625Wh whereas Spesh is a 10S4P pack using 21700 cells to get 700Wh. How they have the brass neck to charge £1100 for it is a discussion for another time though...

 

[Doomanic]

Interesting. I am in between these two. What about Trek Rail on mellower trails?
.
I am looking for an all rounder,but I read somewhere Trek Rail was too oriented to downhills but cumbersome on easier trails.

The Rail won the Best Trail Bike in the same test.

 

[R120]

Specilized have always had competition - the Levo or the Kenevo has never been the best riding EMTB in their classes imo, but no one else comes close to packaging it all up in the way they have - its the overall packaging of their bikes that is, and always has been ahead. Just look at the amount of cables most emtb's have, then look at a Levo, or look at the bulky controllers and displays and do the same.

As for Apps I would say they may not matter to you, but for a lot of riders they are pretty essential, as you can tailor the power delivery and charechteristics to make the bike ride how you want it, or extend range, and so on. Having a decent App or access to decent aftermarket Apps such as Belevo is a big factor for a lot of people.

The main reason they sell so many levos is that they look like the most resolved emtb out there, and to your average punter going into a shop that's hard to ignore, along with the fact they look the most like a normal bike, with plenty of room for a bottle cage, and a form factor that relatable.

One of my big issues with the EMTB industry at the moment is too many companies IMO have just looked at the Levo and tried to copy it, resulting in bikes that may look good but are actually heavier and with worse weight placement than their predecessors.

 

[Paul Mac]

Specilized have always had competition - the Levo or the Kenevo has never been the best riding EMTB in their classes imo, but no one else comes close to packaging it all up in the way they have - its the overall packaging of their bikes that is, and always has been ahead. Just look at the amount of cables most emtb's have, then look at a Levo, or look at the bulky controllers and displays and do the same.

As for Apps I would say they may not matter to you, but for a lot of riders they are pretty essential, as you can tailor the power delivery and charechteristics to make the bike ride how you want it, or extend range, and so on. Having a decent App or access to decent aftermarket Apps such as Belevo is a big factor for a lot of people.

The main reason they sell so many levos is that they look like the most resolved emtb out there, and to your average punter going into a shop that's hard to ignore, along with the fact they look the most like a normal bike, with plenty of room for a bottle cage, and a form factor that relatable.

One of my big issues with the EMTB industry at the moment is too many companies IMO have just looked at the Levo and tried to copy it, resulting in bikes that may look good but are actually heavier and with worse weight placement than their predecessors.

While I agree with your sentiment, and of course you are right to a point.
But, while the Levos look like a resolved bike on the surface, the reality was anything but.
My 2019 Levo had to go back for first the moto foam to stop all the mud build up in the motor, don't know of any other bike on the market that has had to make that their solution. Then the four bolt motor housing, and the crud lip.
Then 3 failed leads and a failed motor, these all point to style over function in my book.
I did enjoy the bike though all being said.

 

[R120]

Totally agree with you, there are plenty of real world design faults with them, it’s more the overall concept of the bikes I am referring too rather than the execution - like I said I am not arguing that they are the best bikes, just that the what they are doing with the whole Turbo Programme is ahead of anyone else.

Personally I will stick to my Vitus.

 

[Stray cat]

Interesting. I am in between these two. What about Trek Rail on mellower trails?
.
I am looking for an all rounder,but I read somewhere Trek Rail was too oriented to downhills but cumbersome on easier trails.

The Rail won the Best Trail Bike in the same test.

I know it,but Orbea Wild won the best enduro bike,as a best all rounder. For me,they are in the same league. That 10mm less of rear travel,aren’t meaningful.

 

[Fx1]

Battery tech has caught up with the new 625 Bosch

Even though I have one, I'm going to have to disagree. All Bosch have done is use more cells to get the higher capacity, Spesh have used newer, more powerful cells to get the additional capacity. The Bosch is a 10S5P pack using 18650 cells to get 625Wh whereas Spesh is a 10S4P pack using 21700 cells to get 700Wh. How they have the brass neck to charge £1100 for it is a discussion for another time though...

I did some research on this and the cells are not massively different.

I know YT use advanced cells either 21700 or 20700 I think but I couldn't work out the effect of the different cells. I think it was more to do with peak power discharge but there also also different cells with the same name and different ratings.

 

[Changleen]

There’s a good 2-bit Devinci video about the cells and why the 21700’s (or whatever they are) are better.

 

[Doomanic]

I know it,but Orbea Wild won the best enduro bike,as a best all rounder. For me,they are in the same league. That 10mm less of rear travel,aren’t meaningful.

I haven't ridden an Orbea yet, but it's a bit heavier that the Rail. It does have the advantage of the second battery, but I think the Rail is better looking (I'm not biased, honest... )

 

[Stray cat]

I know it,but Orbea Wild won the best enduro bike,as a best all rounder. For me,they are in the same league. That 10mm less of rear travel,aren’t meaningful.

I haven't ridden an Orbea yet, but it's a bit heavier that the Rail. It does have the advantage of the second battery, but I think the Rail is better looking (I'm not biased, honest... )

In my opinion is also more beautiful Trek than Orbea ,but as you say Trek has the weak spot on second battery,but in any case I am looking for the best performance as all rounder.

 

[Doomanic]

I wouldn't say it's a weak spot unless you are planning mega-mile days out. The 625Wh should be good for 35-40 miles even with my fat arse on it.

 

[Fx1]

Buy a spare stick in the car. If you are that far from the car then you are likely lost lol

 

[Bomble]

In my opinion is also more beautiful Trek than Orbea ,but as you say Trek has the weak spot on second battery,but in any case I am looking for the best performance as all rounder.

As I’ve said earlier I have rode the Orbea and the Rail. I bought the Rail? I found the Rail as agile as the Orbea but the Rail also feels great descending.
I owned a 2020 Levo before the Rail and I think the Rail is a better all rounder than the Levo too, though I loved the Levo as well.
Definitely try and get some demo rides though as everyone's likes are different obviously.

 

[JonasH]

I’m really looking forward to getting my 2020 Decoy. I have a rather pimped up Levo 2019 with fox factory 36 grip 2 160mm, X2 shock, mullet and Renthal cockpit. I tried many setups for the Levo to make it more like an enduro version and better descender, even added a Coil shock at one time. It was either the Decoy or the Kenevo for N+1. After seeing these vid tests I’m sure I made the right choice. In the comments on the YouTube video test Loam wolf also said that luckily the Levo didn’t have a Fox 36....

 

[Fx1]

YouTube comment just said that 3 out of 5 Levo and Kenevo bikes were faulty on a demo day lol. Completely out of action.

 

[JonasH]

YouTube comment just said that 3 out of 5 Levo and Kenevo bikes were faulty on a demo day lol. Completely out of action.

? give’em hell ?

 

[b45her]

Even though I have one, I'm going to have to disagree. All Bosch have done is use more cells to get the higher capacity, Spesh have used newer, more powerful cells to get the additional capacity. The Bosch is a 10S5P pack using 18650 cells to get 625Wh whereas Spesh is a 10S4P pack using 21700 cells to get 700Wh. How they have the brass neck to charge £1100 for it is a discussion for another time though...

that isn't strictly true, its just more marketing, both the 18650 and 21700 cells have the same energy density for similar quality cells, the 21700 has 49% more volume than an 18650 and therefore give or take 2% 49% more energy capacity.

It's like claiming a 1 litre bottle of coke has more coke than 2 500ml bottles, its the same thing in a different container.
chances are that the 21700 cells were either used because it allowed them to get the battery shape they wanted. or if your feeling cynical just to fool people with cleverly worded claims.

 

[Fx1]

Even though I have one, I'm going to have to disagree. All Bosch have done is use more cells to get the higher capacity, Spesh have used newer, more powerful cells to get the additional capacity. The Bosch is a 10S5P pack using 18650 cells to get 625Wh whereas Spesh is a 10S4P pack using 21700 cells to get 700Wh. How they have the brass neck to charge £1100 for it is a discussion for another time though...

that isn't strictly true, its just more marketing, both the 18650 and 21700 cells have the same energy density for similar quality cells, the 21700 has 49% more volume than an 18650 and therefore give or take 2% 49% more energy capacity.

It's like claiming a 1 litre bottle of coke has more coke than 2 500ml bottles, its the same thing in a different container.
chances are that the 21700 cells were either used because it allowed them to get the battery shape they wanted. or if your feeling cynical just to fool people with cleverly worded claims.

This was the conclusion I come to. There are some advantages to the newer cells but they aren't significantly better.

So the point about the 625wh Bosch still stands. Range will vary between bikes and especially between motor types. But I think I'd want the reliability of bosch over a small increase in battery capacity.

 

[TransAmMan]

Wow this has sure turned into a Specialized bashing thread

I have owned lots of Specialized bikes over the years and still own one (not a Levo .. it was not the right choice for where and how I ride).

I love the design and the engineering Specialized puts into their bikes … top notch .. BUT as many have noted, the only area I would suggest needs to be improved are the PRICES.

Reasoning: The concept of using House Brand parts .. such as Handlebars, Stems, dropper posts, wheelsets, tires, saddles, etc. should result in a LOWER price than the competition rather than higher. In the case of Specialized, MRSP prices are significantly higher than their competition and is one of the "things that make you go Mmmmmm "

IMO (and everybody's opinion is biased) .. Specialized (and arguably other large manufacturers ) should be following Giants example .. and if your going to spec your bikes with house branded parts .. then in theory you should be able to sell your bikes for LESS than the competition .. or at least in the same ballpark. Isn't that the point of using house branded parts?

I would never hesitate buying any brand of bike and certainly take every internet review with a "grain of salt".

I think in the end, bashing each others e-bikes is the same mentality as many Analog bike riders have towards e-bikes. We need to be less like them and embrace others who ride e-bikes ... irrelevant of brand

 

[Fx1]

Wow this has sure turned into a Specialized bashing thread

I have owned lots of Specialized bikes over the years and still own one (not a Levo .. it was not the right choice for where and how I ride).

I love the design and the engineering Specialized puts into their bikes … top notch .. BUT as many have noted, the only area I would suggest needs to be improved are the PRICES.

Reasoning: The concept of using House Brand parts .. such as Handlebars, Stems, dropper posts, wheelsets, tires, saddles, etc. should result in a LOWER price than the competition rather than higher. In the case of Specialized, MRSP prices are significantly higher than their competition and is one of the "things that make you go Mmmmmm "

IMO (and everybody's opinion is biased) .. Specialized (and arguably other large manufacturers ) should be following Giants example .. and if your going to spec your bikes with house branded parts .. then in theory you should be able to sell your bikes for LESS than the competition .. or at least in the same ballpark. Isn't that the point of using house branded parts?

I would never hesitate buying any brand of bike and certainly take every internet review with a "grain of salt".

I think in the end, bashing each others e-bikes is the same mentality as many Analog bike riders have towards e-bikes. We need to be less like them and embrace others who ride e-bikes ... irrelevant of brand

I've got an S works so I'm not anti specialized. I'm just fed up of mid range spec at above market pricing. I also dont want to own a lemon bike with a 2 year warranty.

I hope they bring out a 27.5 Levo SL. I'd consider one of those for light trail use and the mrs could use it when she wants to come. At 16kg it's just perfect for her as well as feminine forum members with no upper body strength

 

[Bomble]

Wow this has sure turned into a Specialized bashing thread



I love the design and the engineering Specialized puts into their bikes … top notch .. BUT as many have noted, the only area I would suggest needs to be improved are the PRICES.

Agree with all you have said but you have forgot to add reliability to the things that need to be improved
I loved my Levo but couldn't keep it as it kept leaving me stranded. Very frustrating. I also believe on the JeJames demo day last week, 3 of the Spesh demo bikes broke.
Crazy

 

[squeegee]

Wow this has sure turned into a Specialized bashing thread

Well with all the Spesh marketing and fanboys that have developed I for one am glad to see some people calling it out for what it is. I agree fully about prices, premium prices, hell more than premium and mediocre builds at best. Top that off with a questionably reliable motor. No thanks. I could accept motor issues to a degree with good service but not the upfront markup.

I too think anyone I can friend that has an ebike is a win-win for me regardless of what bike they ride.

 

[Fx1]

Wow this has sure turned into a Specialized bashing thread

Well with all the Spesh marketing and fanboys that have developed I for one am glad to see some people calling it out for what it is. I agree fully about prices, premium prices, hell more than premium and mediocre builds at best. Top that off with a questionably reliable motor. No thanks. I could accept motor issues to a degree with good service but not the upfront markup.

I too think anyone I can friend that has an ebike is a win-win for me regardless of what bike they ride.

Market dominant players can buy good reviews which reinforce their market dominant position. Its basically cheating. American companies do it more than anyone else. They also rig the pricing.

Fanbois are a specialized wet dream. Not only do they hand over money without question they then go around the internet reinforcing their own purchase insecurity by actively promoting it. Coming up with excuses for poor spec poor reliability or just refusing to see the bikes faults. Resulting in the company putting up prices each year and lowering the spec as low as they can get away with. Whilst nobody criticises them in the media the uninformed keep paying up to £12500 for a bike which comes with plenty of shortcomings you dont find out until the next model comes out.

There are 2 S works Levos traded in selling for £3k in the LBS which are not selling. The money they have lost you could lease a bmw 5 series over the same time. That is crazy. Bunch of mass produced chinese made parts. The only bit they design is the frame!

 

[R120]

Market dominant players can buy good reviews which reinforce their market dominant position. Its basically cheating. American companies do it more than anyone else. They also rig the pricing.

Fanbois are a specialized wet dream. Not only do they hand over money without question they then go around the internet reinforcing their own purchase insecurity by actively promoting it. Coming up with excuses for poor spec poor reliability or just refusing to see the bikes faults. Resulting in the company putting up prices each year and lowering the spec as low as they can get away with. Whilst nobody criticises them in the media the uninformed keep paying up to £12500 for a bike which comes with plenty of shortcomings you dont find out until the next model comes out.

There are 2 S works Levos traded in selling for £3k in the LBS which are not selling. The money they have lost you could lease a bmw 5 series over the same time. That is crazy. Bunch of mass produced chinese made parts. The only bit they design is the frame!

You could say the same for YT, who are the kings of marketing in the mtb world, how many people buy a YT, simply because it is a YT?.

I mean why would you buy a direct sales bike from Germany, with little UK back up, that has a bespoke battery which cant be serviced at a Shimano Service centre, has historical problems with the E-13 components on it, requires a crappy bespoke water bottle, several threads on here and other forums about poor customer service, and a motor system that is due to be replaced in a few months? Hell its hasn't even got that many great reviews in the press . . .

Of course I am pulling your leg, but none of these bikes are perfect, I have had two motor issues with my Shimano bikes, one took two months to sort out, the other a week.

Personally I dont think the Specilized is alone in being overpriced, in fact I dont even think they are the worst offenders, the latest Merida's are a joke price wise for spec (and they happen to own Specilized), the Pivots are truly taking the piss, top end Monrakers, etc etc and we are now seeing a lot of bikes for 10k that there is no real world reason to consider in terms of specification and value.

Anyway this Forum was set up to help people learn about EMTB's, connect and get out and ride togheter, not slag off each others bikes, Pinkbike is available for that sort of dicscussion, and I would also remind you that we have plenty of female members who shred, including members of the EMTB Forums race team who happened to win the overall title in the women's category last year at Pedalhounds, so you might want to think again about the comment you made regarding the SL.

 

[Fx1]

Market dominant players can buy good reviews which reinforce their market dominant position. Its basically cheating. American companies do it more than anyone else. They also rig the pricing.

Fanbois are a specialized wet dream. Not only do they hand over money without question they then go around the internet reinforcing their own purchase insecurity by actively promoting it. Coming up with excuses for poor spec poor reliability or just refusing to see the bikes faults. Resulting in the company putting up prices each year and lowering the spec as low as they can get away with. Whilst nobody criticises them in the media the uninformed keep paying up to £12500 for a bike which comes with plenty of shortcomings you dont find out until the next model comes out.

There are 2 S works Levos traded in selling for £3k in the LBS which are not selling. The money they have lost you could lease a bmw 5 series over the same time. That is crazy. Bunch of mass produced chinese made parts. The only bit they design is the frame!

You could say the same for YT, who are the kings of marketing in the mtb world, how many people buy a YT, simply because it is a YT?.

I mean why would you buy a direct sales bike from Germany, with little UK back up, that has a bespoke battery which cant be serviced at a Shimano Service centre, has historical problems with the E-13 components on it, requires a crappy bespoke water bottle, several threads on here and other forums about poor customer service, and a motor system that is due to be replaced in a few months? Hell its hasn't even got that many great reviews in the press . . .

Of course I am pulling your leg, but none of these bikes are perfect, I have had two motor issues with my Shimano bikes, one took two months to sort out, the other a week.

Personally I dont think the Specilized is alone in being overpriced, in fact I dont even think they are the worst offenders, the latest Merida's are a joke price wise for spec (and they happen to own Specilized), the Pivots are truly taking the piss, top end Monrakers, etc etc and we are now seeing a lot of bikes for 10k that there is no real world reason to consider in terms of specification and value.

Anyway this Forum was set up to help people learn about EMTB's, connect and get out and ride togheter, not slag off each others bikes, Pinkbike is available for that sort of dicscussion, and I would also remind you that we have plenty of female members who shred, including members of the EMTB Forums race team who happened to win the overall title in the women's category last year at Pedalhounds, so you might want to think again about the comment you made regarding the SL.

I will never think again about a joke. Snowflakes be dammed. Also the mrs would ride an SL but not my decoy. I was serious about that bit.

Bikes are massively over priced. All of them. Emtb are the worst for it. And to be clear I think the levo is a good bike. I have no problem with the bike it's the owners that i find hilarious. They are weighing the components and making excel spreadsheets. I'm waiting till one of them realises that a pair of Y fronts weighs 100 grams less than a pair of boxer shorts. Im expect to see someone in a G string riding up an hill.

I didn't buy the YT because of marketing or reviews. I bought it because of the spec and the geo and price. Nothing else really matters. If it breaks then it breaks. I'll get a refund or a new bike. Direct manufacturer sale is like a dream in terms of contract law and warranty. The uneducated think a LBS is better. More fool them I say.

 

[Lee Dove]

Test riding all depends on so many factors. Even your mood can influence how you feel on a bike! Weather, terrain, rest, riding company, kit... all can impact it. Maybe they just had a shit day riding the 2019?

All this is true. Plus add in the factor that Journos are such awesome riders that they can tell the difference even when there is none