Who needs a E-Fatbike??? (former Moose Manic 2 post ;) )

I have the EP8 on my Spherik (3,200 km) and the EP801 on my Rise (1,800 km). So far, no problems, but I must admit the rattle when not pedaling on rough terrain really annoys me. It's not an issue on the smooth snow trails I ride in the winter, but it's another story when rocks and roots reappear in the spring. The new Bosch CX is very quiet according to what I read.

What I also like about Bosch is that they force the manufacturers to use their Bosch batteries. Shimano is more flexible, allowing manufacturers the use their own batteries, like the Orbea Rise. Just between us ;) , I am a bit insecure and would feel better knowing a Bosch battery is available at every street corner. Not too sure it's going to be easy to find a Rise battery in a few years from now.

So, my next E-MTB will be powered by a Bosch motor! No noise, no worries ;)
 
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Jackware said:
@knut7
Have you tested and compared these motors?
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The EP801 vs the CX gen4 Smart System?

The EP800 and EP6 are generous motors at lower cadence, meaning you get lots of power even though you're pedaling slowly with little force. But those motors drop off as you approach 100 rpm, so it feels weaker when going fast. The EP801 maintains the low end power while improving at higher cadence. Sure, it might not be as powerful as the CX gen4 as you go above 100 rpm, but the Bosch is less generous when pedaling slow&calm.

And the EP801 really came to life with the recent 4.3.0 firmware updated that allows you to adjust motor overrun and how close it will go to cutoff speed before ramping down the power. In the most aggressive settings, it feels racier than the Bosch CX Race.

I think it's a good thing having a motor that is generous at low cadence when riding in deep-ish snow. It can be exhausting riding in powdery snow, and it's nice having a motor that is powerful from the get-go when you're stopping and starting a lot. Especially when you come to a stop in a climb and try to get going again.

I rode a Rock Machine fatty with the EP6 (if my memory serves me right)
 
Speaking of overrun, I was talking to a dude who was adamant the ep8 doesn't have it but both of mine do. It's not adjustable but the motor does keep going for a second after you've stopped pedalling.

On the 801, how vast is the adjustment range and how long can you make it last? @knut7

D
 
darwink1 said:
Speaking of overrun, I was talking to a dude who was adamant the ep8 doesn't have it but both of mine do. It's not adjustable but the motor does keep going for a second after you've stopped pedalling.

On the 801, how vast is the adjustment range and how long can you make it last? @knut7

D
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The difference is huge. Previously, there was a short but noticeable shove. But it was a bit difficult accessing it as it would cancel if you backpedaled ever so slightly. Now, you're allowed to move the pedals back a bit. I try to illustrate the behavior in this video.

 
Perfect, thank you!

D
knut7 said:
The difference is huge. Previously, there was a short but noticeable shove. But it was a bit difficult accessing it as it would cancel if you backpedaled ever so slightly. Now, you're allowed to move the pedals back a bit. I try to illustrate the behavior in this video.

Click to expand...
 
So I rented a Moose Manic over the weekend. In rode it for about 5 kms before it had a chainring issue and then was no longer rideable. Taken back to the shop for repair.

It was a large and felt more nimble than my xl Bigfoot. I wonder how much had to do with it not having a front suspension on the Manic. My Bigfoot has manitou forks.

the Bosch may have had a bit more torque than the shimano. Not a drastic difference by any means, but a slightly more boost feel going uphill.

It was comfortable enough and rode well.

I just didn’t get to ride it enough to be able to provide a decent review.
 
NickJ said:
So I rented a Moose Manic over the weekend. In rode it for about 5 kms before it had a chainring issue and then was no longer rideable. Taken back to the shop for repair.

It was a large and felt more nimble than my xl Bigfoot. I wonder how much had to do with it not having a front suspension on the Manic. My Bigfoot has manitou forks.

the Bosch may have had a bit more torque than the shimano. Not a drastic difference by any means, but a slightly more boost feel going uphill.

It was comfortable enough and rode well.

I just didn’t get to ride it enough to be able to provide a decent review.
Click to expand...

Well, I hope you get a second chance to try the Manic, because it started out as a great review!

Should you try it again, since you have a Shimano EP8 on your VLT, I would like you to pay attention to power delivery at low cadence. On this thread, it has been said that the EP8 does a better job at it, I'd like your opinion on that. Also, does the new Bosch CX motor delivers a natural feeling?
 
NickJ said:
I really like my Norco Bigfoot VLT. I’d definitely like to try the Manic2 and the RM Blizzard PP. Spherik also does a fat bike. Someone needs to do a thorough comparison and post online.
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Bought a RM A50 and love it. Were I live we get snow/ice 5 months of the year most winter and lots of wind and snow drifts and with studded 4.5 tires and 107nm of power it works great. Game changer. In snow suspension is not needed. Will change my mind in summer I am sure and will put some forks on RM and 27.5/3,8 tires.

IMG_7191.jpeg
 
darwink1 said:
Nice bike!

The difference between the 27.5 and 26 is pretty drastic imop. The centrifical forces are pretty crazy with the 27.5s and you really notice it at speed when turning or trying to maneuver the bike. Also, the butt to rear tire clearance suffers so you're constantly getting buzzed when shifting your weight. This probably doesn't matter too much on nice groomed trails but we ride the same trails summer and winter and they don't get any grooming so its a little more challenging.

Getting on the 26er after riding the 27.5 for a bit is like getting onto a kids bike. A kids bike that is so much easier to manhandle lol. Kind of like the difference between a 29 and a 27.5 or 26" skinny bike but with more mass at the wheels.

I'm used to the big wheels now but every once in a while I get reminded of how cumbersome they can be. That and how fast they can get rolling.

D
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Darwink, I have appreciated reading your comments on the 26 vs 27.5 Bigfoot vlt. I am wanting to get an e fatty for winter riding, and based on your comments leaning towards the 26in wheels. Is there enough clearance in the rear triangle on the new Bigfoot vlt to accommodate a 26× 4.8 tire?
Many thanks

Winston
 
Yes there is. The motor doesn't like the 27" wheels though lol. I made it 10' before fetting an error code when I tried a 26" rear lol. Maybe a bike shop could mess with the beep boops and make it 26" compatible?

D
 
darwink1 said:
Yes there is. The motor doesn't like the 27" wheels though lol. I made it 10' before fetting an error code when I tried a 26" rear lol. Maybe a bike shop could mess with the beep boops and make it 26" compatible?

D
Click to expand...
thank you for the reply! Good to know that it's not compatible out of the box. You aren't selling your 26" are you?

W
 
Well. I need one!
Right now, when I ride in snow, it's on trails that are ungroomed singletrack. My plan is/was to use my wife's Trance X 29f/27.5r with 2.6" wide assegai's front and back. They work pretty well, but as mentioned, if I wanted to go on groomed trails in the Park City, Utah area, I'd need 4" minimum to protect the grooming and avoid being murdered in the parking lot.

The only trouble I've had so far, is a loss of steering on the front end of the Trance X on the climbs. If we ever get any snow, I'm going to lower the bars a couple of inches. That may solve that problem.
I was looking at the Ari E-fat bike, which has a 27.5x4.5 front and back, but I would like a suspension fork and maybe a bit of rear travel (optional) as well. Also, it comes with either an EP-6 (I've read reviews that suggest that's a better snow option than the EP-8) or an EP-8. My sense is that though the Shimano is a solid motor, a non-Shimano battery is required for range, and the combo of Shimano/non-Shimano is not that great. Batteries fall out, and Shimano control interfaces are just not very good. Also, with numerous manufacturers dropping Shimano, support has not gotten any better! I've decided against this option.

Right now, I'm looking at Borealis for next season. Full suspension, Bosch motor with a good capacity battery and 27.5 options really appeal to me.

We have well over 400 miles of non-groomed singletrack in the area and usually have a LOT of snow, so I'm looking forward to checking out next year's options. Given the depth we normally experience + the mount of climbing on our trails, I'm thinking the Borealis may be my best bet.

But I'm open to suggestions.
 
I have 1700km on my Rocky Moutain powerplay blizzard and been amazing bike. I run almost all non-groomed trails. Make my own. Was just out on it yesterday -19c. I did add Wren forks which really does make riding a lot better. The RM motor is totally different than anything else. Cranks are not attached to motor. Also motor never see the wet/cold climate at all.
 
Pedec said:
I have 1700km on my Rocky Moutain powerplay blizzard and been amazing bike. I run almost all non-groomed trails. Make my own. Was just out on it yesterday -19c. I did add Wren forks which really does make riding a lot better. The RM motor is totally different than anything else. Cranks are not attached to motor. Also motor never see the wet/cold climate at all.
Click to expand...
The Powerplay 50 looks pretty interesting.
One nice thing about the Ari is the price point. It's on sale now for $4500 US but was on sale for $4k. They do go on sale several times a year.
 
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Montana St Alum said:
Montana St Alum said:
Well. I need one!
Right now, when I ride in snow, it's on trails that are ungroomed singletrack. My plan is/was to use my wife's Trance X 29f/27.5r with 2.6" wide assegai's front and back. They work pretty well, but as mentioned, if I wanted to go on groomed trails in the Park City, Utah area, I'd need 4" minimum to protect the grooming and avoid being murdered in the parking lot.
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I mounted 27.5” x 3.0” studded Wrathchild tires on 35mm internal width rims to my Trance and they work amazingly well in fresh snow up to 5” deep and in firm conditions on groomed or packed trails. Works especially well in early/late season mixed conditions and icy trails. For deeper or softer snow, I move up to my RM Blizzard which is a total game changer.
Click to expand...
 
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