What's the most Levo like EMTB (that isn't a Levo!)?

[Max-E]

As per title really. Still in the demoing what I can stage before committing and may hang on to see what news comes of 2020 models (expecting big things from some given how much Specialized moved the game on) but if for whatever reason you could not go Levo which similar (?) bike would you go for if any?

 

[R120]

Well the main characteristic of the Levo if you ignore the motor is that it’s a 150mm 29’r and the main other bike that fits that criteria is the Commencal Meta Power 29

 

[Gary]

although only a 130mm bike the Canyon Neuron : ON is pretty close geometry and intended use wise to the Levo and is lighter than the Commie.

 

[Donnie797]

YT Decoy? (i just don't like that "full carbon" trend, but that's just me)

 

[srileo]

As per title really. Still in the demoing what I can stage before committing and may hang on to see what news comes of 2020 models (expecting big things from some given how much Specialized moved the game on) but if for whatever reason you could not go Levo which similar (?) bike would you go for if any?

Do you expect any big changes for 2020 levos? I think the 2019 carried all the big changes to the frame, motor, app. What else is left other than componentry spec change?

 

[All Mountain Coaching]

Focus jam2

 

[Jamsxr]

Levo is a fantastic bike (one of the best) but I certainly wouldn’t put in on a pedestal above other manufacturers. No doubt they have the best marketing team!

I’ve just gone Commencal Meta Power 29, slightly burlier, better spec/value and more of a charger.

 

[Max-E]

Do you expect any big changes for 2020 levos? I think the 2019 carried all the big changes to the frame, motor, app. What else is left other than componentry spec change?

No, noted they have suggested little will change but struggling to get the colour/spec/material/suspension mix that I like and that will work with the upgrades financially etc.

[holds back, holds back....no....cannot do it....rant time!]

TBH they (Levo) are all at least 30% over priced at list IMHO if you really add up the cost of the (pretty low end) parts and calculate how much the mass production frame/motor is effectively.

Alternatively just see what sort of high end equipped FS (non-EMTB) you can spec for £2-3K and it makes the little battery and electrickery motor stupendously overpriced.

Will just be interested to see if they mix it up a bit and what combos are offered for 2020.

Plus the possible option of an ex-demo 2019 or sale prices.

And I would consider a used 2019 from someone trading up to 2020.

Really I am very open at the moment and in no hurry as this is wayyyyyyy more than I would ever thought I'd dream of spending on a bike.

I well remember the 'you could buy a car for that' cliche when my first Stumpy was £600 in '89.

Yes, a pretty crap car but for the asking now (£5 to £10k) you could really buy a nice brand new car with things like a big body, engine, gearbox, four seats and a factory worth of electronics!

It's nuts really but until things settle down in a few years then that's the way it is.

 

[dirt huffer]

Well adding a motor, motor control, display, and battery add at least $1500. Sure there is a bit of mark up on those things, but the batteries used are the highest capacity cells and have very advanced battery management systems.

Plus, in general, eBikes frames *usually* are way more beefier and have a lot more design considerations and tubing manipulation going on, and more welding. Everything about an eBike frame is more complex and time-consuming to manufacture and design.... like WAY more complex.

Anyways, I think the '20 Levo will have all the quarks/issues sorted out that the '19 has. I dont expect to see a lot of advancement in the next year. Maybe 3 years from now, when most manufacturers will be cycling in a new model design. We could see more 29 front / 27.5 rear bikes as a lot of people seem to be interested in this way forward

 

[Max-E]

Do you expect any big changes for 2020 levos? I think the 2019 carried all the big changes to the frame, motor, app. What else is left other than componentry spec change?

Well adding a motor, motor control, display, and battery add at least $1500. Sure there is a bit of mark up on those things, but the batteries used are the highest capacity cells and have very advanced battery management systems.

Plus, in general, eBikes frames *usually* are way more beefier and have a lot more design considerations and tubing manipulation going on, and more welding. Everything about an eBike frame is more complex and time-consuming to manufacture and design.... like WAY more complex.

Anyways, I think the '20 Levo will have all the quarks/issues sorted out that the '19 has. I dont expect to see a lot of advancement in the next year. Maybe 3 years from now, when most manufacturers will be cycling in a new model design. We could see more 29 front / 27.5 rear bikes as a lot of people seem to be interested in this way forward

Very fair points - I suppose I am being a bit naive trying to price the physical parts when a huge chunk of the RRP is funding Specz' R and D dept and staff and the marketing.

 

[srileo]

YT Decoy? (i just don't like that "full carbon" trend, but that's just me)

Same here. Am comfortable with alloy and the slight weight increase.

 

[R120]

When you spend a bit of time with the Levo you can see why it costs what it does - the main reason for this is that it use a totally bespoke power train, whereas most bikes use an off the shelf system that is then integrated, whereas Specilized have gone down the other route and built a fully system integrated totally into the bikes design from the ground up, and because they have gone down the bespoke route, the development cost are a lot higher.

This is also why IMO it has the various reported issues, as they have gone further than anyone else to date with integration, and use of bespoke parts.

So its not the best value, and you can get much more bang for your bike elsewhere, but it is the most cutting edge EMTB out there right now, and there really isn't anything else out there on the market offering anything like it in terms of EMTB tech in terms of battery capacity, motor customisation, and system integration, though there are plenty of bikes that ride just as well.

 

[srileo]

Well adding a motor, motor control, display, and battery add at least $1500. Sure there is a bit of mark up on those things, but the batteries used are the highest capacity cells and have very advanced battery management systems.

Plus, in general, eBikes frames *usually* are way more beefier and have a lot more design considerations and tubing manipulation going on, and more welding. Everything about an eBike frame is more complex and time-consuming to manufacture and design.... like WAY more complex.

Anyways, I think the '20 Levo will have all the quarks/issues sorted out that the '19 has. I dont expect to see a lot of advancement in the next year. Maybe 3 years from now, when most manufacturers will be cycling in a new model design. We could see more 29 front / 27.5 rear bikes as a lot of people seem to be interested in this way forward

I agree with you there. Decent clockwork bikes cost about $3000 USD these days with a very good spec. A decent eMTB (direct consumer brand) costs about $4500 usd. Thats only $1500 more for a full battery, motor, display, electronics and all the R&D for a stronger chassis. Its quite a bargain actually, and tells me there is a lot of margin the direct consumer clockwork bikes.

Ofcourse you cant get a Levo for $4500 and the base Levo at retail is still lagging in spec quite a bit. The comp costs $6000 usd. But given that atleast a few trips to the LBS will happen in a couple of years of ownership under warranty, that $1500 premium over a direct consumer brand should pay for itself.

As a MTB noob, for a first eBike, i am leaning to get the Levo for the best motor, style, and tech integration. For a second eMTB a few years hence, i expect to go direct consumer brand because am pretty sure they would have caught up with the tech integration (via Shimano) and i would have gotten the hang of the bicycle mechanicals and maintenance.

 

[Mountie]

YT Decoy

 

[R120]

The decoy is nothing like a Levo, different geometry, travel, wheel sizes and intended use.

Comparing EMTB's is no different to comparing normal bikes - the Decoy is a valid answer if the question is that are the other most cutting edge EMTB's out there right now, but not if looking for a similar type of bike to a Levo

 

[outerlimits]

And how many people buy a bike only to spend another wad upgrading ?
If you get the best motor battery and frame any upgrades are worthwhile. If you compromise on the motor battery and frame, it will never be good enough, no matter what you throw at it.

 

[R120]

The motor is irrelevant if the basic frame and geometry and bike design isn't right for you or the riding you want to do.

The problem with e-bikes is its very easy for a first timer to have a quick go on any decent one, and be blown away by the motor experience and forget about looking at all the other details.

Is the Levo the most cutting edge EMTB, yes. Is it the best bike for everyone out there? No.

 

[Jamsxr]

Frame, motor and geo are all still fairly subjective things though.... Some people want a sleek integrated look with maximum capacity but others prefer the ease and practicality of an external battery - horses for courses.

Ultimately if you’ve got a Shimano or Brose motor and a frame/geo that suits your riding style, it’s the other components that are going to make the real difference. I always try to get the best components out of the box as they are much better value at the time of purchase. Spending thousands on upgrading components just eats into my future bike fund.

 

[R120]

My point has nothing to do with components - no point buying a bike with the best components if the bike isn't right for you. Always get a bike that suits your riding and fits you, that's the starting point of any bike purchase.

Bike geo is totally depended on personal taste, but you should always get a bike that works for you, rather than trying to get a bike to work for you

 

[Gary]

Ultimately if you’ve got a Shimano or Brose motor and a frame/geo that suits your riding style, it’s the other components that are going to make the real difference. I always try to get the best components out of the box as they are much better value at the time of purchase. Spending thousands on upgrading components just eats into my future bike fund.

Do you honestly believe this?
Other than contact points (which are entirely subjective and down to personal preference) Above mid range componentry level suspension components and tyres are the only components that will actually improve your bike's performance.
eg.
A deore drivetrain offers exactly the same performance/functionality as XTR or XX1 (assuming you don't need absolutely massive range - most emtb rides don't)
Zee/Guide RE brakes offer as good performance as you're ever going to need
A £100 Brand-X dropper performs as well as any of the super expensive droppers
Mid range bars and stems perform just as well as high end Carbon bars and big name stems.
and unless you are somehow blowing up freehubs most OEM Emtb wheelsets (basically mainly being re-branded budget enduro wheelsets) are more than up to the job.

Don't get too carried away with spendy spendy new new shiny shiny...
come winter it'll all be brown (or I should hope so anyway)

As above buy the actual bike that best suits your needs. not a bike just because it has your favourite coloured baubles hanging from it..

 

[Max-E]

Bike geo is totally depended on personal taste, but you should always get a bike that works for you, rather than trying to get a bike to work for you

[Getting OT really but have to post something]

Totally - this is my biggest gripe at the mo - Steve (EMBN) and the whole industry pushing people on to longer and longer and bigger bikes; 'we know best, my way or the highway, everything you've been riding for 30 years was cr@p geometry and unridelable". No it wasn't!

It's nuts some of the riders on large or XL with two feet of chainstay behind them and three feet of tube tube out front who should be on smalls or mediums - OK for those who want to ride farmer's gates downhill but many of who have ridden for years quite like old geometry, 'normal' sized wheels and the way of riding that goes with it thanks very much. It's OK if they make longer top tubes with short seat tubes (Specz aren't too bad with this) but many offer the S/M size with a 17.5/18" seat tube - useless for getting a proper dropper set up.

Is this where modern trail bike design is headed? - MBR

 

[Gary]

Watch Steve ride (round all the jumps and drops) on his XL
and make up your own mind

 

[Jamsxr]

Do you honestly believe this?
Other than contact points (which are entirely subjective and down to personal preference) Above mid range componentry level suspension components and tyres are the only components that will actually improve your bike's performance.
eg.
A deore drivetrain offers exactly the same performance/functionality as XTR or XX1 (assuming you don't need absolutely massive range - most emtb rides don't)
Zee/Guide RE brakes offer as good performance as you're ever going to need
A £100 Brand-X dropper performs as well as any of the super expensive droppers
Mid range bars and stems perform just as well as high end Carbon bars and big name stems.
and unless you are somehow blowing up freehubs most OEM Emtb wheelsets (basically mainly being re-branded budget enduro wheelsets) are more than up to the job.

Don't get too carried away with spendy spendy new new shiny shiny...
come winter it'll all be brown (or I should hope so anyway)

As above buy the actual bike that best suits your needs. not a bike just because it has your favourite coloured baubles hanging from it..

I don’t think there’s anything to believe, it’s a fact the components work out cheaper when on the bike. By components I’m really referring to suspension and brakes... I went for the mid level build on my trail bike 3 years ago and the Monarch shock and Guide brakes didn’t fair too well and have been replaced by Hope and Fox, the Pike upfront has also been tuned improved. If I had my time again I would have gone for the better build out of the box.

 

[Gary]

I actually don't think Hope is better than SRAM nor Fox better than RS. They're just different.
but yeah... Not choosing a bike with suspension and brake componentry brands you don't like is the componentry choice to make
The reason so many bikes come with RS suspension and SRAM brakes is volume profit margin for the bike brands
fox are not affiliated to any brake or drivetrain brands and Hope are somewhat out on their own so if you want Hope brakes you're probably best plumping for a bike spec with cheaper brakes but fox suspension.
IMO Brakes and suspension are so good these days it's actually quite difficult to go far wrong with any reputable Emtb brands build specs.

 

[All Mountain Coaching]

The motor is irrelevant if the basic frame and geometry and bike design isn't right for you or the riding you want to do.

The problem with e-bikes is its very easy for a first timer to have a quick go on any decent one, and be blown away by the motor experience and forget about looking at all the other details.

Is the Levo the most cutting edge EMTB, yes. Is it the best bike for everyone out there? No.

Dude! You talk more sense than 95% of this forum. Can't give out enough likes. People need to pay attention to R120

 

[outerlimits]

The frame, motor and battery can be considered as one package. If one of these is not suitable to your riding, then you will never be happy. If you don’t like the combo, it’s new bike time for you. If you don’t like some of the other components, then it’s easy to swap them.

 

[Lee Dove]

I agree with you there. Decent clockwork bikes cost about $3000 USD these days with a very good spec. A decent eMTB (direct consumer brand) costs about $4500 usd. Thats only $1500 more for a full battery, motor, display, electronics and all the R&D for a stronger chassis. Its quite a bargain actually, and tells me there is a lot of margin the direct consumer clockwork bikes.

Ofcourse you cant get a Levo for $4500 and the base Levo at retail is still lagging in spec quite a bit. The comp costs $6000 usd. But given that atleast a few trips to the LBS will happen in a couple of years of ownership under warranty, that $1500 premium over a direct consumer brand should pay for itself.

As a MTB noob, for a first eBike, i am leaning to get the Levo for the best motor, style, and tech integration. For a second eMTB a few years hence, i expect to go direct consumer brand because am pretty sure they would have caught up with the tech integration (via Shimano) and i would have gotten the hang of the bicycle mechanicals and maintenance.

Levos and Kenevos seem to be getting through motors at the moment. I have a friend with a Levo and 2 with Kenevos and all 3 have had to have new motors in the last 3 months. All 3 less than 1 year old. I have one friend with a Vitus (shinarno) and it has been rock solid for 2 years of abuse.