Waterproof Jackets

[Giff]

Has anyone got a jacket that is really waterproof?
I have a less than one year old Endura MT500 jacket and although I have worn it
quite a bit it hasn't been in soaking rain that much.

That changed on the last two rides and I have been completely soaked. When I got
home I layed it down and tested it by pouring a "puddle" of
water on it...in about 20 seconds it had soaked right through.

It has been washed but only as their instructions at 30C
without detergent.

I contacted Endura who told me to use Grangers 2 in 1 wash and repel.
I have done that but when I do the puddle test it still soaks through but a bit slower.

I am going to try spray as well but is there a real waterproof jacket ? or any suggestions to proof this one.

 

[JoeBlow]

With a fully waterproof jacket you would get just as wet from sweat as you do from rain so it's always a compromise.

 

[steve_sordy]

A fully waterproof jacket would indeed get you wet from sweat. But it has to be breathable also, so that the sweat vapour can get out.

I have a Rohan Elite jacket that can withstand a water column 20,000 mm high without leaking. That would pass the puddle test! I've had it for over ten years, might be as long as 14 years, but I'm not sure.

But it also will pass 20,000 gm of air per 24 hours through one square meter of fabric. That would sure pass the sweat test!
Those two indexes, waterproofness and breathability are 20,000/20,000. You need both.

I keep the jacket clean (from sweat. mud and greasy marks) and I wash and waterproof it before every winter. It has never let me down, either by letting in water or by retaining sweat. The breathability index is arguably more important if you will be working hard as I can generate what feels like a huge amount of sweat. The outside surface of the garment has to have an effective and durable water repellent (DWR) coating to make sure that any water on the fabric forms droplets and not a continuous film. A continuous film on the surface prevents the sweat vapour from leaving the jacket to the outside.

Endura MT500 fabrics claim 20,000 on the waterproof index and 40,000 on the breathability index. It is unclear whether that breathability figure is over one square meter of fabric or whether they make an allowance over the whole jacket for open pit zips and side vents etc. Based upon those figures the MT500 jacket should outperform my Rohan jacket. However, I have an Endura jacket and it fails on waterproofness and breathability. Fortunately, I don't wear it on my bike, I bought it because it looked good for casual wear when it was raining. I have seen many reviews where sweat build up and/or rain ingress are claimed.

However, it is not just Endura that struggle. Early on in my mtb journey, I bought a GoreTex Pac-Lite jacket and trousers because I thought I was buying the best. My first trip out in light rain with just the jacket ended with me pouring sweat from the cuffs. My complaint to GoreTex ended up with them blaming me for daring to have bare skin (my arms) in contact with their fabric. They told me that their fabric is not a one-way valve! I sold the PacLite asap and bought the Rohan. Brilliant stuff!! See this review.

| Rohan Elite Jacket | Review

A smart looking, fully waterproof jacket that's as at home in the city as it is on the mountains

outdoorsmagic.com

 

[Giff]

Thanks Steve. A great explanation and a real life endorsement of a jacket that works.
I am surprised at the Endura as I thought it would be dry in really heavy rain but it hasn’t really handled a downpour and continuous drizzle.
In both recent cases I wasn’t getting particularly hot or sweaty but did have bare arms underneath!
I have tried the Grangers on it and will give it a spray as well but the Rohan is now on my wish list.

 

[JoeBlow]

I do not have any experience of wet conditions and jackets when mountain biking. Perhaps the speed of the activity aids in the process but from a walking and mountaineering perspective of over 55 years I have not yet found a material that keeps you completely dry when moving.

 

[Giff]

Yes I realise there is a compromise but the jacket I have is not even resistant……it surrenders if it sees a cloud!

 

[Bndit]

I have endura GV500 jacket. Even that it’s not 100% waterproof, it is enough for me. It’s comfortable, good fit( If it would be 5cm longer in front, it would be perfect fit like my Gore Lupra jacket).it breaths enough and it was not expensive, less than 140€. I use it for commuting in rain and really wet rides on emtb. I used to ride it in winter also but Lupra is much better for that. Gore Tex sucks for sports and is expensive, anything is better than that

 

[PeeJay1]

Had Both jackets for the Road and Off road,
Endura and Altura…. As been said, you will sweat , I would ride with the vents open, never got wet though… always washed in, Nikwax .. wash in and Proofer…
I always wore , a good base layer, Helly Hanson( smelly hellie ).. but now have , Under Armor… and works a treat….

 

[steve_sordy]

Thanks Steve. A great explanation and a real life endorsement of a jacket that works.
.........................
I have tried the Grangers on it and will give it a spray as well but the Rohan is now on my wish list.

OOOPS! It seems that Rohan no longer makes the Elite jacket. But they do still make a range of jackets and trousers using the same Barricade fabric. You have an option of 2-layer, 2.5-layer, and 3-layer Barricade fabric. Best thing is to go into one of their shops and try some on, feel the quality as it were, read the reviews. Then wait for the sales!

Well would you believe it! Rohan are having a sale right now. Get in there!

Men's Barricade™ Waterproof Jackets & Coats | Rain Jackets | Rohan - Rohan

Get waterproof, windproof, and breathable protection with our renowned Barricade™ fabric. Browse today to take on the rain with complete confidence!

www.rohan.co.uk

 

[kieranar]

Leat hydraDri

 

[Mikerb]

First off Goretex has a big brand but the technology used is no different to any other supposed waterproof and breathable product...and has not been for well over a decade. The technology used by all the brands is nowhere near as effective as similar products produced over a decade a go due to EU regulations banning key chemicals used.
You can get a 100% waerproof jacket with zero breathability and small enough when folded up to fit in a back pack. If you are caught in a downpour it is best to resort to that. Other wise any DPR treated jacket is good enough for light showers or misty rain.

 

[steve_sordy]

First off Goretex has a big brand but the technology used is no different to any other supposed waterproof and breathable product...and has not been for well over a decade. The technology used by all the brands is nowhere near as effective as similar products produced over a decade a go due to EU regulations banning key chemicals used.
You can get a 100% waerproof jacket with zero breathability and small enough when folded up to fit in a back pack. If you are caught in a downpour it is best to resort to that. Other wise any DPR treated jacket is good enough for light showers or misty rain.

I agree with the view that for light rains, heavy mist, whatever... then a jacket with a DWR is all you need. A windproof jacket with a DWR of course breathes very well. Despite having a very good waterproof, I almost never wear it. Being a complete wuss, if heavy rain is forecast, I don't go out! But if rain is 50:50, then I'll take the jacket just in case.

The point about certain chemicals being banned ten years ago was unknown to me. That may account for the fact that my more than ten-year old waterproof is so good.

 

[irie]

You can get a 100% waterproof jacket with zero breathability and small enough when folded up to fit in a back pack. If you are caught in a downpour it is best to resort to that.

As said before, that's exactly what I do - carry it in my back pack. Rarely need it but when I do it's there. Backpack is also handy because if (when) I crash I have a bit of extra back protection. South Downs chalk is slippery as f**k when wet.

 

[Amber Valley Guy]

My advice is never wash a waterproof jacket (or bottoms) in the washer. Just sponge down with cold water ( no soap). Washing machines stress the seams (at any temperature), un-adhere the taped seams and destroy the waterproofing of breathable fabrics. Better off buying a cheaper waterproof jacket and another lightweight jacket/ poncho to throw on top when it's really pissing it down.

 

[Giff]

I agree with the view that for light rains, heavy mist, whatever... then a jacket with a DWR is all you need. A windproof jacket with a DWR of course breathes very well. Despite having a very good waterproof, I almost never wear it. Being a complete wuss, if heavy rain is forecast, I don't go out! But if rain is 50:50, then I'll take the jacket just in case.

The point about certain chemicals being banned ten years ago was unknown to me. That may account for the fact that my more than ten-year old waterproof is so good.

Isn’t Gortex a separate waterproof membrane? I have seen it some years ago. It looks like nappy liner (maybe is!) and if you make a square of it into a ball in a cup and fill it with water it doesn’t leak. If you reverse it it lets some water out. I believe this is a different technology than water proofed fabrics. I don’t think there are any chemicals in the membrane to wash out.

 

[PeeJay1]

Isn’t Gortex a separate waterproof membrane? I have seen it some years ago. It looks like nappy liner (maybe is!) and if you make a square of it into a ball in a cup and fill it with water it doesn’t leak. If you reverse it it lets some water out. I believe this is a different technology than water proofed fabrics. I don’t think there are any chemicals in the membrane to wash out.

Can always remember reading a book, about the , Crane Brothers, Bicycles up Kilimanjaro … they had a load of wet gear.. after a rain storm , then coming into a drier area, they wore the wet clothes under the Berghaus jackets , rode around for 30 minutes to an hour… and the clothes were nearly dry.. I suppose with, Gore-Tex.. it has little pores that allow moisture to evaporate , breathable..

 

[ianiention]

I've used a Helly Hansen jacket for like 7 years (can't remember exactly). It has underarm breathing zips that go all the way down the side to the pockets. I hardly ever do the zips up because I prefer the huge breathability they give.
It also has a flap across the back to let moisture escape; again, I leave that open all the time. I do go out in very heavy rain and don't get wet.
The back of the jacket hangs lower to cover some of my arse (if you don't like that, there are fasteners to fix the flap up into the coat).
I've never got wet from the jacket letting in water and only rarely have I sweated too much because I've done the size zips up (this would be in proper stormy conditions).
The inside of the jacket looks worn in some places, but the outside still looks great. It's never been machine washed, in fact, the mud just sort of slides off.
Can't remember the name of the jacket - I doubt they still make the same one, but it has 'HELLY TECH PROFESSIONAL' on the arm.
I have another, much bigger Helly Hansen jacket I use for hiking, and that is also very good.

 

[biketd]

I can only recommend what I’m currently using - Ground Effect Anti-cyclone. Does everything I need for a three-season biking jacket and worth paying the delivery/extras from NZ. Perfectly adequate for wet UK rides of 3 - 4 hours.

anti-Cyclone

Tape-sealed breathable 3 layer HydroFoil™ Plus fabric and waterproof zips keep the wind and wet out. Mechanical venting on chest and arms keeps you cool.

www.groundeffect.co.nz

 

[steve_sordy]

The theory of waterproof, yet breathable membranes is that the fabric has holes in it. The holes are large enough to let the small molecules of gaseous water vapour pass, but small enough to stop the very much larger liquid water molecule from passing. In the balance between stopping water in its liquid form from passing through, but allowing water in its gaseous form to pass, the presence of a DWR (durable water repellent) coating is an essential.

To stop the water from spreading out across the surface and acting as a barrier to the flow of water vapour, a water repellent coating is applied. This forces the liquid water to form droplets, leaving plenty of space for the water vapour to escape. Most windproof garments have a DWR and as long as the DWR is maintained, then they will keep you dry against all but the heaviest and sustained rainfall.

Detergent is an enemy of most DWR coatings, as are grease and oil. Therefore' it is essential to keep your garment clean, but not to use detergent to do it! Pure soap or proprietary products like Nikwax Tech Wash both do an excellent job. Never get your wind/waterproofs dry cleaned, unless you are prepared to re-proof them from scratch.

Ref an earlier post: I now believe that the reason my Goretex PacLite fabric failed was that my bare skin was in contact with the membrane. Being in liquid form, my sweat would not pass. It just collected in my sleeves instead! This type of fabric requires a garment in between the skin and the membrane, or a fabric bonded to the membrane that does the same job. That layer encourages the warm sweat to evaporate into its gaseous form and be able to pass through the fabric. I don't believe that there is anything special about Gore-Tex as such. As the market leader, "Gore-Tex" became a euphemism for waterproof in the same way that "Biro" was for ball-point pens and "Hoover" for vacuum cleaners.

Every day is a learning day.

 

[Giff]

Years ago I did some work for a company called Sympatex who also make a waterproof membrane but a different technology to Gortex. Lots of interesting tech stuff on their website which appears to say it maybe better than other membranes (well they would wouldn’t they). Not sure if it has the brand recognition of Gortex though.

 

[steve_sordy]

Years ago I did some work for a company called Sympatex who also make a waterproof membrane but a different technology to Gortex. Lots of interesting tech stuff on their website which appears to say it maybe better than other membranes (well they would wouldn’t they). Not sure if it has the brand recognition of Gortex though.

I had an overcoat for many years that I used for work in the winter. It had a Sympatex lining. This was long before I got into biking. I told the sales guy in the gent's outfitters (you don't get shops like that anymore!) that I wanted a waterproof coat for business, but not in day glow colours please. He sold me a fantastic dark blue full-length coat with pockets, a detachable padded liner and a detachable hood. It folded up quite small too; without the padded liner it could go into my briefcase. I literally wore the arse out of it and had to have the inside of the coat patched. I must have used that coat for at least twenty years. The Sympatex never once let me down. Eventually the coat got too shabby for work, so one winter I gave it away to one of the homeless guys begging on the streets. The last time I saw it his girlfriend was wearing it.

 

[Just gan]

Has anyone got a jacket that is really waterproof?
I have a less than one year old Endura MT500 jacket and although I have worn it
quite a bit it hasn't been in soaking rain that much.

That changed on the last two rides and I have been completely soaked. When I got
home I layed it down and tested it by pouring a "puddle" of
water on it...in about 20 seconds it had soaked right through.

It has been washed but only as their instructions at 30C
without detergent.

I contacted Endura who told me to use Grangers 2 in 1 wash and repel.
I have done that but when I do the puddle test it still soaks through but a bit slower.

I am going to try spray as well but is there a real waterproof jacket ? or any suggestions to proof this one.

Oilskin jacket but not breathable.

 

[Maxi]

I'm a big fan of Paramo (dislike Gortex despite how good it can be) and love their jackets for waterproofness & breathability. As a household, that's pretty much all we wear when walking. However, biking is different and other than their lightweight waterproofs (which are good but not perfect) I usually wear a no-brand waterproof that keeps the rain out but the sweat in. I open the zip to ventilate.

 

[Just gan]

I'm a big fan of Paramo (dislike Gortex despite how good it can be) and love their jackets for waterproofness & breathability. As a household, that's pretty much all we wear when walking. However, biking is different and other than their lightweight waterproofs (which are good but not perfect) I usually wear a no-brand waterproof that keeps the rain out but the sweat in. I open the zip to ventilate.

Paramo brilliant but I wouldn't want to get it covered in mud too often. My mate wears one he's about 9 stone probably but way too warm for a big lad like me .

 

[Bigmike]

The best fabric i have found is eVent posably a gill one but it's a while ago now

 

[Just gan]

I used a Vaude Escape for three jackets so over ten years used in all weather's. Then they discontinued it .