Urgent Request to E-Bike Manufacturers: Race Mode

Albertocsoares

Albertocsoares

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The Race Mode should be implemented in all brands’ apps so that different e-bikes can compete under equal conditions.

It could work as follows:

The user would be able to limit:

- Maximum speed
- Maximum torque
- Maximum power

The user would also define how many hours the bike system would remain locked with these settings, without allowing changes during that period.
 
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Albertocsoares said:
The Race Mode should be implemented in all brands’ apps so that different e-bikes can compete under equal conditions.

It could work as follows:

The user would be able to select:

- Maximum speed
- Maximum torque
- Maximum power

The user would also define how many hours the bike system would remain locked with these settings, without allowing changes during that period.
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To facilitate overpass countries rules ? and initiate harder restrictions on Ebike.
 
Albertocsoares said:
This feature would be used in eMTB races to ensure that all bikes operate with the same power and speed, is that so hard to understand?
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And to circumvent legislation in almost every different jurisdiction there is on the dubious requirements of a vanishingly small number of people.
 
The objective of this app is to bring the power down for a fixed amount of time, so that all competitors are limited to the same maximum power and speed, for example 600 W / 25 km/h.
 
In Brazil, we have a major eMTB competition with more than 300 competitors using different motor systems, such as Shimano (600 W), Bosch (750 W), Specialized (650 W / 850 W), and Avinox (1000 W). This large difference in power means that many athletes with lower-power bikes choose not to participate in the race.

The suggestion is to implement a power and speed limiter in the apps of the different manufacturers. This limiter would work for a predetermined period of time, temporarily making all bikes equal in terms of performance and ensuring a fair competition.
 
Albertocsoares said:
The objective of this app is to bring the power down for a fixed amount of time, so that all competitors are limited to the same maximum power and speed, for example 600 W / 25 km/h.
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My racing (motorcycles) experience has taught that no matter how restrictive the rules are for specific /formula/categories of vehicles there are always ways to find an edge over your competitors beyond the riders skill. It is not necessarily power related but those with the most money usually have the best equipment. Skill can get you in the top 10, money gets you in the top 5! Level playing fields in any kind of vehicle racing is a myth imo!
 
Joecrow said:
My racing (motorcycles) experience has taught that no matter how restrictive the rules are for specific /formula/categories of vehicles there are always ways to find an edge over your competitors beyond the riders skill. It is not necessarily power related but those with the most money usually have the best equipment. Skill can get you in the top 10, money gets you in the top 5! Level playing fields in any kind of vehicle racing is a myth imo!
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Thank you for your comment. I understand your position and I agree with it. The proposal I am making aims to serve amateur athletes, who represent about 90% of competitors and are the ones who actually drive the market.

I believe that for major manufacturers, implementing this feature in the existing apps that already monitor and control their bicycles would involve a relatively low cost, especially when compared to the potential benefit of attracting and engaging more amateur competitors.
 
Albertocsoares said:
The Race Mode should be implemented in all brands’ apps so that different e-bikes can compete under equal conditions.

It could work as follows:

The user would be able to select:

- Maximum speed
- Maximum torque
- Maximum power

The user would also define how many hours the bike system would remain locked with these settings, without allowing changes during that period.
Click to expand...
It's a logical suggestion.

Honestly, the whole idea of ebike racing has always felt absurd to me. It definitely seems like e-bikes are the future of MTB so it follows that there would be a racing format for them, but I struggle to imagine exactly what that would look like.

Best I can come up with is something similar to enduro where only the downs are timed.

XC is always going to be a "pure" discipline of measuring fitness on a bike in the dirt, but the absurd aspect is how the descending capability of the bikes (the fun part) is compromised to shed weight for climbing (the long part).

DH is always going to be a "pure" discipline of measuring descending ability but the absurd part is that it requires an uplift.

I guess I'm advocating for Enduro with motors, which is how most of us ride (I think?).

I suppose it's fun to challenge yourself up steep, chunky climbs. I'm just not sure that's interesting enough to build a race format around it given the challenges of leveling the playing field from a motor/battery standpoint. But maybe I'm wrong.
 
Blownoutrides said:
It's a logical suggestion.

Honestly, the whole idea of ebike racing has always felt absurd to me. It definitely seems like e-bikes are the future of MTB so it follows that there would be a racing format for them, but I struggle to imagine exactly what that would look like.

Best I can come up with is something similar to enduro where only the downs are timed.

XC is always going to be a "pure" discipline of measuring fitness on a bike in the dirt, but the absurd aspect is how the descending capability of the bikes (the fun part) is compromised to shed weight for climbing (the long part).

DH is always going to be a "pure" discipline of measuring descending ability but the absurd part is that it requires an uplift.

I guess I'm advocating for Enduro with motors, which is how most of us ride (I think?).

I suppose it's fun to challenge yourself up steep, chunky climbs. I'm just not sure that's interesting enough to build a race format around it given the challenges of leveling the playing field from a motor/battery standpoint. But maybe I'm wrong.
Click to expand...


Thank you for your comment. eMTB races are already a growing reality worldwide. The UCI has set a limit of 750 W and 25 km/h for its official competitions in 2026.

My suggestion to implement a temporary limiter in the apps of various manufacturers is simply intended to make it easier for more competitors to take part in races worldwide.
 
Albertocsoares said:
Thank you for your comment. eMTB races are already a growing reality worldwide. The UCI has set a limit of 750 W and 25 km/h for its official competitions in 2026.

My suggestion to implement a temporary limiter in the apps of various manufacturers is simply intended to make it easier for more competitors to take part in races worldwide.
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"growing", i think it's not the reality. Since the beginning i haven't understand the concept of race with an ebike ? and it seem that a lot off "racers" share my opinion. Why assistance ? to make more speed, more hard ? wich interest sportively speaking ? brands marketing is another subject, but im not sure that purchaser are influenced a lot by the race result (see lapierre GLP3 commercial result). And about UCI rules, if you translate in "bosch win necessary". that will be more clear.
 
patdam said:
"growing", i think it's not the reality. Since the beginning i haven't understand the concept of race with an ebike ? and it seem that a lot off "racers" share my opinion. Why assistance ? to make more speed, more hard ? wich interest sportively speaking ? brands marketing is another subject, but im not sure that purchaser are influenced a lot by the race result (see lapierre GLP3 commercial result). And about UCI rules, if you translate in "bosch win necessary". that will be more clear.
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The emtb market has grown in recent years. Do you have any questions about this?

I would like to remind you that this forum is specifically for emtb, so motor assistance is a fundamental feature that we cannot overlook.

Your comment about Bosch winning the UCI race is exactly the reason I am suggesting a temporary power limiter in the manufacturers’ apps.
 
Blownoutrides said:
It's a logical suggestion.

Honestly, the whole idea of ebike racing has always felt absurd to me. It definitely seems like e-bikes are the future of MTB so it follows that there would be a racing format for them, but I struggle to imagine exactly what that would look like.

Best I can come up with is something similar to enduro where only the downs are timed.

XC is always going to be a "pure" discipline of measuring fitness on a bike in the dirt, but the absurd aspect is how the descending capability of the bikes (the fun part) is compromised to shed weight for climbing (the long part).

DH is always going to be a "pure" discipline of measuring descending ability but the absurd part is that it requires an uplift.

I guess I'm advocating for Enduro with motors, which is how most of us ride (I think?).

I suppose it's fun to challenge yourself up steep, chunky climbs. I'm just not sure that's interesting enough to build a race format around it given the challenges of leveling the playing field from a motor/battery standpoint. But maybe I'm wrong.
Click to expand...
Then the motor is kinda useless IMO... besides keeping the riders fresher for the downs. I think uphill challenges, whether very technical and/or timed would be cool with eMTBs.

I'm always looking for challenges on the eMTB, because TBH... it takes some skill/fitness out of your "usual" riding, if you transitioned from MTB. So places where you'd hike-a-bike or picking totally new lines you never considered.

I was lamenting this with my buddy... at our local spot we have a few uphill technical challenges that took a couple years to finally be able to clean on our MTBs. And it still not a 100% success rate today or a gimme. Now that a few of us have eMTBs, its so much easier to clean the line... it kind of takes the satisfaction away. TBF, I'm grinning ear to ear riding the eMTB, so there's that lmao.
 
Albertocsoares said:
The emtb market has grown in recent years. Do you have any questions about this?

I would like to remind you that this forum is specifically for emtb, so motor assistance is a fundamental feature that we cannot overlook. Of course. For the pleasure, leisure, for those haven't physical capacity to take fun without help. Not for racing. Except may be for those who estimated that doping are acceptable ?

Your comment about Bosch winning the UCI race is exactly the reason I am suggesting a temporary power limiter in the manufacturers’ apps. 🥴
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@patdam - Your comments, from the very first one, suggest that you haven’t understood my proposal. Please read more carefully so we can have a more productive discussion.
 
Albertocsoares said:
@patdam - Your comments, from the very first one, suggest that you haven’t understood my proposal. Please read more carefully so we can have a more productive discussion.
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I think i have perfectely understand, but i know also we don't live in bisounours world. If you allow possibility to adjust speed limit or powerfull, that will be used to ride outside race or cheat.

Same to expecting to have "equity" in motors support on competition use. Let's imagine that this exists. What is the intereset to racing with ebikes with exactely same motor performance ? remove the motor will be more simple, no ? definitively Ebike is not destinate to race, only for fun. To the limit in enduro to perform liaison without any chrono. But curiously the existing championship as canceled. The only riders who want to racing on ebike, are those who imagine able to reach better place with assist. If they perform better result, it's only because best rider are in classic bike. and they ride on lower championship level.
 
patdam said:
I think i have perfectely understand, but i know also we don't live in bisounours world. If you allow possibility to adjust speed limit or powerfull, that will be used to ride outside race or cheat.

Same to expecting to have "equity" in motors support on competition use. Let's imagine that this exists. What is the intereset to racing with ebikes with exactely same motor performance ? remove the motor will be more simple, no ? definitively Ebike is not destinate to race, only for fun. To the limit in enduro to perform liaison without any chrono. But curiously the existing championship as canceled. The only riders who want to racing on ebike, are those who imagine able to reach better place with assist. If they perform better result, it's only because best rider are in classic bike. and they ride on lower championship level.
Click to expand...

It is clear that you did not understand my proposal. The objective is not to increase the power or speed of the bicycles, but rather to reduce them for a specific period of time. Please explain to me how a system that will lower speed and power would be used to bypass laws or limits.

The only objective of the system is to ensure that the motor has no influence on the result of a given race and that the best athlete wins. Is that really so difficult to understand?
 
New ideas are good.

Not every idea is great.

It’s a public forum. Be weary, if you think your idea is spectacular. Others will quickly illustrate the flaws in it.

Also…. URGENT ? Uh probably not
 
emtb race mode should be: motors off and batteries on place. Just one lap on an UCI course. This would really please the crowds, in between the real race categories. This would also help ebikers get a glimpse of their real athletical performance, as seen from other riders perspective.
 
Yes! It's not fair that some people are on fast bikes and some people are on slow bikes! It's even worse when the riders of the slow bikes are fat. Until the time that the bike manufacturers make everyone equal, the race promotors should hand out participation trophies to all riders.
 
Pizzman said:
New ideas are good.

Not every idea is great.

It’s a public forum. Be weary, if you think your idea is spectacular. Others will quickly illustrate the flaws in it.

Also…. URGENT ? Uh probably not
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I for one am looking forward (with urgency even) to a time when something like this is indeed urgent. Until then I'm coming here daily to put my head firmly in this sand (dirt?) to escape the issues of actual urgency that are flooding our world.

And it is not because I don't care, but because I care a little too much for my own good.

Here's to urgent eMTB issues.
 
I'm not sure how 'race mode' could only be switched on for competitions? If it could somehow be switched on, what's stopping someone leaving it on and riding public trails and roads?
 
Albertocsoares said:
It is clear that you did not understand my proposal. The objective is not to increase the power or speed of the bicycles, but rather to reduce them for a specific period of time. Please explain to me how a system that will lower speed and power would be used to bypass laws or limits.

The only objective of the system is to ensure that the motor has no influence on the result of a given race and that the best athlete wins. Is that really so difficult to understand?
Click to expand...
Hi,I get where you’re coming from with your proposal.
How about if there was a race series where it was only ONE bike model with everything identical therefore it would ultimately be down to human skill/fitness determining the win.
That way there would be no “trick” modifications,everyone would be on a level playing field.
I personally would prefer to see a race between human vs human rather than manufacturer vs manufacturer because as someone else has posted,money can still get you in the top five irrespective of your ability.
 
We are working on these features at spamflow, however the ratio of spam to flow is a limiting factor .
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E-MAD MALC said:
All I see with this idea is that it would be the fitested and most skilled riders that would come out on top, in that case just stick to non powered bikes
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You’re right, that’s exactly the point. I don’t have an acoustic bike anymore, but I still enjoy the thrill of fair competition. From the responses here, it’s pretty clear I’m not like most people on this forum. Sorry for interrupting the echo chamber.
 
Maximum bike weight 25kg, minimum race distance 50km, let’s see how you decide to handle it. No battery swapping, no wiring connections between rider and bike.(can’t carry battery on person) hydration must be carried on rider.
 
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