Tubeless tape... wtf am I doing wrong?

[emtbPhil]

Any leakage out of the spokes merely means the tape has not sealed the well of the rim...somewhere...and most likely at the valve.
For 30mm internal rim width you need 35mm tape so that it goes into the well and onto the flat section of the rim on both sides of the well.
The tape needs to be reasonably warm ( like any tape). Nothing wrong with Stans tape or Stans fluid...used both for years with zero issues.

this is what I’ve always done but 30-35mm tape won’t drop into the recess

If they’ve gone flat again in the morning and I have to take them off I’ll post pics

 

[Rod B.]

Phil,

I prefer Muc-Off tubeless tape over Stan's. Everybody has a particular brand that works for them. I always pre-clean my rim with a bit of acetone before applying the tape. Acetone won't leave a residue and dries immediately. I don't like to use Isopropyl alcohol because it has water in it and doesn't dry as well. I think your issue is the tape may be too cold. No heat gun, the tape just needs to be at room temp and pliable and not cold or at a freezing temp.

Tubeless tape works by applying a slight bit of tension as you slowly wrap it around the rim. The tensioning causes the tape to slightly stretch and the tape will conform to the dip in the center channel on the inner rim profile. If you apply the tape without tension, it will lay down flat and not conform to the inner rim profile, nor will it seal well. When I say "Tension" the tape, I'm talking about pulling the tape enough so that it will slightly stretch and conform to the rim as you wrap the tape around the rim. You don't need to pull super hard.

I prefer one full wrap with about ten inches overlap to either side of the valve stem. If you put too many layers on the rim, the tire bead will be tight and resist seating and inflating. If you have a loose tire that's burping easily, then try two wraps for a tighter bead seal. I've used black Gorilla tape in the past, it works, but keep in mind it's a cloth tape and permeable. Some air will bleed past the tape more than a non-permeable tape like Muc-Off. It's also a bitch to remove the Gorilla tape residue when re-taping. Acetone helps with the clean up.

 

[Spin]

I've used Stans tape for many years without issue. I'm firmly in the camp of using tape just wide enough to cover the recess and spoke holes only. If its wide enough to cover any more than that , its a pain to get it down in the recess and the edges of the tape can be lifted when taking tyres on and off , even marred by tyre levers.
@emtbPhil I think the rims might be the real problem here as somebody mentioned , most likely air is getting into the cavity at the welded seam opposite the valve hole. Extremely frustrating! Good luck getting it sorted.

 

[Philly G]

in the future I'm going to try the Stand 21mm or 25mm tape and just do the actual recessed bit

The method when using a narrow tape is actually to do 3 passes around the rim, one each side then down the centre. This helps you get a tight seal and it's easier to press the tape right down into the rim bed

 

[Philly G]

the odd puncture is no big deal for me . Each to their own.

Puncture resistance is only one benefit of tubeless though. Tubeless offers more grip, more comfort, less rolling resistance, and is lighter, so less unsprung mass...in my opinion well worth the (relatively minimal) faff

 

[emtbPhil]

Puncture resistance is only one benefit of tubeless though. Tubeless offers more grip, more comfort, less rolling resistance, and is lighter, so less unsprung mass...in my opinion well worth the (relatively minimal) faff

Yeah 100% it allows me to run lower pressures too without getting pinch flats so more comfort, more grip. It's well worth doing even though once a year I end up swearing an entire day in the garage lol

 

[iXi]

I use gorilla tape but as mentioned when it's time to change the tyre it usually snags on the tape and you need to redo the tape from scratch. My biggest gripe is always the valve, if I get a leak it's always around the base of the valve. Now i flip the wheel with the valve pointing down with some sealant pooling around the valve, its the only way I get a good seal. Sometimes I get the shits too and take it to the lbs which does it for $45.a wheel.

 

[Kingerz]

Tubeless is still 2/10 and don't think most bikers are still on tubes, outside these forum bubbles.

 

[emtbPhil]

Tubeless is still 2/10 and don't think most bikers are still on tubes, outside these forum bubbles.

 

[Snrbrtsn]

It’s a real shame I never took pictures
Today I took the tyre off front, in prep for new wheel, the amount of sealant I had to scrape from the bead was ridiculous
Worth checking and cleaning with flat blade, I used the side of a scrapper

 

[IainF]

Hi,
FWIW.

1. If the tape won't stick to the rim initially (my experience recently) I rubbed the rim down with wire wool briefly, which although visually it made no difference it obviously provided enough of a 'key' on the rim to allow the tape to adhere.
2. Absolutely agree with putting the tape on under high tension. If you do this the tape will seat into the centre dip of the rim automatically. I do this with the wheel in a wheel truing jig but any way you can apply the tape under tension all the way round will do. I really mean under tension, I have the tape like a bow string!
3. Finally, if I have the time, after I've applied the tape, I mount the tire with an inner tube and pump up to about 60psi and leave it overnight. This helps to 'seat' the tape properly (if it hasn't already. This is belt and braces but if you're unsure of your technique it may provide reassurance). After that, I remove the inner tube, put the sealant in, seat the tire, pump back up to 60psi and bang the tire on the ground all the way round the circumference (with the wheel about 30 degrees from the horizontal) on both sides to expose the interface between the tire and the wheel to the sealant and hopefully seal any leaks around the rim.
4. I leave the tire again to see if it keeps pressure then when I'm happy I lower to my riding pressure...

Hope this helps
Cheers
Iain

 

[Zero cool]

Gorilla tape (other brands available), a few wraps of normal electric tape or failing that I prefer Ghetto tubeless for a totally bombproof set up.
if it’s good enough for Jared Graves it’s good enough for me.

 

[thebarber]

I put loads of sealant in and start with the valve up hold the wheel both sides and swill the sealant back and forth to cover all the inside of the wheel / tyre rotating a fraction, let the sealant settle and repeat, also bounce them around to do the same.
Mabe look a tubliss install on YouTube, it's a dirt bike system but that'll explain better.

 

[emtbPhil]

For what it's worth after a day and going for a ride they have stopped leaking and....
- I didn't want to use gorilla tape, I've done it before, it's tons easier, but when you remove a tyre it knackers the tape and the glue is awful to get off
- I did try to pull the tape tight, it snapped too easily
- I did put a couple of layers of tight electrical tape over the tubeless tape, put a tube in it and left it a fair few hours to push it down, still leaked

I think the problem is 30-33mm is just too wide for these wheels, it sticks too hard to the outers and won't stretch enough to cover the recess. If I do them again I'll try 20-25mm tape and maybe do two layers, focusing on getting good adhesion in the recess

Appreciate everyones advice though

 

[thebarber]

Sound like the sealant has found all the gaps, mabe put some more in.

 

[Charliektm400exc]

Slightly off topic.

Is it normal for tubeless tyres to loose preasure over a few days? I always have to pump mine up every few days? Bontrager factory fitted tape, Stan’s sealant and tubeless tyres.

Charlie

 

[TheRealPoMo]

I probably lose 3 psi over a week.
Was worse with the early tubeless "ready" tyres that had porous sidewalls.... basically put 8 psi in before every ride.

 

[p3eps]

Slightly off topic.

Is it normal for tubeless tyres to loose preasure over a few days? I always have to pump mine up every few days? Bontrager factory fitted tape, Stan’s sealant and tubeless tyres.

Charlie

Not if you’ve done it right! My tyres will last weeks at about 22psi only dropping about 0.5psi.

Mine used to leak through the side walls of the tyre. You’d see the tyre had a slight wet look to it! I’ve had the same issue on Michelin, Specialised and Maxxis tyres over the years. Easy solution is to use Stans ‘Racing’ sealant - which is much thicker and doesn’t seep out.

Back to the original topic…

My last 3 bikes have had Specialized rims. 2 carbon, 1 steel. They all came with Specialized rim tape pre-fitted, and all went tubeless with minimal effort.

When I changed to Maxxis, I couldn’t get them to seat - so went and bought a Joe Blow booster pump. Solved the issue instantly.

My latest bike (over 2 years old now) started leaking from the spokes a month or so ago. I bought Muck Off rim tape (30mm for my 30mm wheel). Pulled the Specialized tape off and cleaned with ‘label remover’ to remove residue.
Then sprayed with ‘brake cleaner’ which is a degreaser and drie up all the greasy spots.

I placed the new rim tape in as per the instructions with the diagonal overlap, and used a screwdriver to poke a small hole for the valve. Push the valve (Also Muc Off) through with the correct adapter and carefully put the tyre back on. Leave a small part of one side of the tyre off the rim and pour in the sealant (Stans Racing is too thick to go through the valve). Pop the remaining part of the tyre on and use the Joe Blow Booster to push 11 bar into the tyre allowing it to seat. Blow up to about 3 bar, and bounce the wheel like a basketball around the room rotating as you do it to spread the sealant.

Make sure there’s no obvious hissing, and put it back on the bike - and spin it for a few mins.

As an ex instrument tech, I have a big bottle of “Swagelok Snoop” - which is a leak detector. Basically a fairly liquid type substance that you pour / brush on and it bubbles if there’s a leak.
If mine goes flat, I overpressurise the tyre, and use this to locate the leak.

 

[Rod B.]

Slightly off topic.

Is it normal for tubeless tyres to loose preasure over a few days? I always have to pump mine up every few days? Bontrager factory fitted tape, Stan’s sealant and tubeless tyres.

Charlie

Charlie,
It's normal for tubeless tires to bleed off a slight amount of air over time. I typically check my air pressure every few days and add air accordingly.

I also like to check my sealant level every few months using the tool pictured below which I bought on Amazon. The sealant inside your tire will dry up over time. The tool allows you to add or extract sealant from the tire without opening the bead on the tire. You simply remove the valve stem with the black valve stem tool and insert the syringe into the tire via the open valve body. You can suck up the sealant to check how much is left in the tire and add accordingly to top it off. Super easy and takes only a few minutes.

 

[RustyIron]

I think the problem is 30-33mm is just too wide for these wheels, it sticks too hard to the outers and won't stretch enough to cover the recess. If I do them again I'll try 20-25mm tape and maybe do two layers, focusing on getting good adhesion in the recess

Dude! Last night I was killing brain cells with YouTube and bourbon, when I stumbled across something that immediately made me think of you. It's unlikely that you'll ever see me doing this, but for someone in your situation, it just might be the hot ticket.

 

[B1rdie]

This is gueto tubeless, I use it since last century, my rigid 29 actually has it.
But on an ebike I don’t see any advantadge on doing it.