Swimming pool test?

[Marke]

Why don't they just chuck new models in a swimming pool to test. Applies to all manufacturers, as far as I know none of them are waterproof . Can't be that hard can it. No reason an emtb can't be 100% waterproof.

 

[routrax]

Apparently It's expensive to get the ip rating for a phone, must be insane amounts to get it for an emtb!

I reckon if you need fully water proof you'd be better off with a jetski.

 

[wepn]

I’d settle for a water resistant motor.

 

[MinusPrevious]

I feel for you Gents that live in the wet areas. I dont ride my E-bike nor sportscar in the wet
Certainly would add another level of expense

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

When you say waterproof, you have to qualify that with how deep - and for how long.

Have a quick look at the IP code standards for waterproofing:
IP Code - Wikipedia

I believe most eBikes are manufactured to meet IP65 standard - dust proof and garden hose level of water jet spray... rain... and quick splash shallow water crossing.

IP66 will already place most manufacturers into trouble - because in order to reach and surpass this standard, it's not just submersion but also resistance to water ingress from high pressure jet sprays. A household high pressure jet spray gun will penetrate pretty much all sealed bearings used on a bike (hubs, suspension linkages, and electric motor). It will also penetrate the seal between your tyre beads and rims.

IP67 is IP66 plus up to 1 meter deep water submersion for 30 minutes. That's not even swimming pool passable.

IP68 is up to 3 meter deep water submersion for a specified duration with thermal cycling involved (hot and cold expansion). Still not passable for a swimming pool. The submersion pressures at 3 meters plus is already enough to penetrate not only the ball bearing seals but also will penetrate the insulation of normal wiring where water would creep inside the stranded copper wires, charging ports and electrical connectors, on and off switches, rubber grommets of wiring that go into the motor or battery casings. Once water gets in, it can never get back out or dry-up even if the bike is left outside in the sun indefinitely. Think about what rust and corrosion would do to cassette barrels, wheel hubs, shifter cables and bearings which are all made of highly corrosive high carbon steels. But air shocks and forks might be OK.

Don't forget that Jetskis float... and if are submerged, don't get down to 3 meters depth and if they do, it would only be momentarily until it pops back up to the water surface. Most Jetskis (petrol powered or electric) may not even pass an IP68 rating.

As you can see, the amount of liability a manufacturer has to accept before they can nominate any product or appliance a rating that complies with industry accepted waterproofing standards, would be staggering. How hard can it be?... incredibly hard and prohibitively expensive.

 

[Rusty]

I would not throw my hamster bike into a pool so why would I throw an ebike into one.

*disclaimer* I did throw my singlespeed into a river a few times racing a 6hr race as the clay clogged things up so bad I could hardly pedal. A wash at 2 hrs and another at 4hrs kept me rolling then another before I put it into my van.
Repacked headset and replaced bottom bracket the following week.

Anyone that bitches about ebike waterproofing needs to think about how badly shielded bottom brackets are. Every time I replace they usually have loads of water or indications of.

 

[CjP]

I love riding in wet weather and mud especially. I have two year warranty and will replace the bike before that’s up.
Nothing in this world lasts anymore.
Accept it and move on.

?

 

[Marke]

When you say waterproof, you have to qualify that with how deep - and for how long.

Have a quick look at the IP code standards for waterproofing:
IP Code - Wikipedia

I believe most eBikes are manufactured to meet IP65 standard - dust proof and garden hose level of water jet spray... rain... and quick splash shallow water crossing.

IP66 will already place most manufacturers into trouble - because in order to reach and surpass this standard, it's not just submersion but also resistance to water ingress from high pressure jet sprays. A household high pressure jet spray gun will penetrate pretty much all sealed bearings used on a bike (hubs, suspension linkages, and electric motor). It will also penetrate the seal between your tyre beads and rims.

IP67 is IP66 plus up to 1 meter deep water submersion for 30 minutes. That's not even swimming pool passable.

IP68 is up to 3 meter deep water submersion for a specified duration with thermal cycling involved (hot and cold expansion). Still not passable for a swimming pool. The submersion pressures at 3 meters plus is already enough to penetrate not only the ball bearing seals but also will penetrate the insulation of normal wiring where water would creep inside the stranded copper wires, charging ports and electrical connectors, on and off switches, rubber grommets of wiring that go into the motor or battery casings. Once water gets in, it can never get back out or dry-up even if the bike is left outside in the sun indefinitely. Think about what rust and corrosion would do to cassette barrels, wheel hubs, shifter cables and bearings which are all made of highly corrosive high carbon steels. But air shocks and forks might be OK.

Don't forget that Jetskis float... and if are submerged, don't get down to 3 meters depth and if they do, it would only be momentarily until it pops back up to the water surface. Most Jetskis (petrol powered or electric) may not even pass an IP68 rating.

As you can see, the amount of liability a manufacturer has to accept before they can nominate any product or appliance a rating that complies with industry accepted waterproofing standards, would be staggering. How hard can it be?... incredibly hard and prohibitively expensive.

I didn't mention anything about ip ratings. I suggested the manufacturers might throw their new models into a swimming pool to help them identify if they were waterproof. They seem to be having difficulties with this area. I think it would be easy (everything is relative) for them to make their bikes waterproof to point they survive a dip in a pool, river or a winter in Northern England . Switches and screens are easy. The bottom bracket slightly more difficult, but given the cost of these bike still achievable. Not "prohibitively expensive"

 

[Marke]

Apparently It's expensive to get the ip rating for a phone, must be insane amounts to get it for an emtb!

I reckon if you need fully water proof you'd be better off with a jetski.

Jetskis have an air filter, exhaust, throttles, water intake, petrol tanks with breathers and and a water jet. Aside from the switches and screen an ebike motor (in my opinion the most important bit) could be completely sealed apart from where the left and right cranks exit the motor.

Specialised, in this video, (although they are all as bad as each other) seemingly can't even waterproof a simple switch. I think these manufacturers are very lucky to have such forgiving and understanding customers.

 

[Beekeeper]

Wonder what the IP rating of a nuclear powered submarine is ?

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

Jetskis have an air filter, exhaust, throttles, water intake, petrol tanks with breathers and and a water jet. Aside from the switches and screen an ebike motor (in my opinion the most important bit) could be completely sealed apart from where the left and right cranks exit the motor.
Specialised, in this video, (although they are all as bad as each other) seemingly can't even waterproof a simple switch. I think these manufacturers are very lucky to have such forgiving and understanding customers.

I agree with you... clearly some eBikes are failing and have failed in the area of electrical component water ingress - and eBike manufacturers should've known better. I hear you, and we actually share the same sentiment. Inspecting battery-motor contact points and electrical connector designs on my bike alone, make me cringe every time I hose down my eBike - not knowing how well or even if it can handle it. So far so good, but you kinda get the feeling that, any day now... And yes, the eBike market is indeed very forgiving and understanding.

It's either the bike companies have underestimated the validation protocol for their electrical components, or their electrical sub-contractor/suppliers have dropped the ball on production quality control. At least (as in the video) manufacturers are actually taking genuine steps to correct unforeseen problems where and when they arise.

Bear in mind that Jetski R&D developers and designers employ marine validation engineers who are well versed in water ingress issues - whereas eBike industries are bicycle builders, now having to play catch up with what their products have evolved into. Not making any excuses for them Marke, especially at the prices we're having to pay for these expensive toys of ours...

I didn't mention anything about ip ratings. I suggested the manufacturers might throw their new models into a swimming pool to help them identify if they were waterproof. They seem to be having difficulties with this area. I think it would be easy (everything is relative) for them to make their bikes waterproof to point they survive a dip in a pool, river or a winter in Northern England . Switches and screens are easy. The bottom bracket slightly more difficult, but given the cost of these bike still achievable. Not "prohibitively expensive"

I believe that surviving a wet and muddy English winter falls within the IP65 rating. And that being the case, then clearly some eBikes have not passed the IP65 standard for one reason or another. And again, I agree with you... getting an eBike to pass IP65 should not be prohibitively expensive, provided manufacturers step-up their game.

However, throwing new models into a swimming pool as you suggested far exceeds the parameters of IP65 validation for eBikes. Different story...

 

[The Hodge]

Ever meet a sub guy? They’re literally all weirdos. For instance Zim was one.

Yeah..my missus has ( had )* an ex sub client..( she's a hairdresser) ..has to have his haircut every 2 weeks and books an appointment at the end of every cut **..he also (since leaving the navy) works as a conductor on the Northern Rail line swapping one claustrophobic work environment for another.
* Not seen since the first Covid lockdown ..
** ..Is this excessive ?
Worried from Northumberland ...?