Shimano EP8 300ks In

[Mr Scooter]

For those that are waiting or deciding here are a few observations after 300ks on my Merida E160 10K

Proiles are very cool....

but in the most powerful setup with everything turned up there isn't a jump in perceived power to Boot from Trail. The new Trail mode is more like the Bosch EMTB setting and as it accesses the full 85Nm you won't get any real help if you go reaching for it on a steep climb.

Also in default highest power the Trail mode empties the battery in a similar way to if you were on boost. It make sense as full torque is available if you really push on the pedals. But because it is labelled "Trail" you get fooled a little.

I have dialled trail back to 63Nm and about 50% power. The assist speed is dialled back. I have left boost along because I figure if I switch it on I do need a bit of help.

In short, Trail mode is similar to Bosch EMTB with the added benefit of being able to tweak it. On each Bosch bike I rode I kept wanting to dial this mode back...with the EP8 you get to do exactly that. Its mean in trail mode you can remount on a steep section if you tweak the ramp up down.

I set profile two to Min eco Min trail but kept boost stock for those little emergencies.

My main observations in a nutshell were that is default - all modes on full there is little if any jump from Trail to boost and Trail mode empties the 630 battery pretty swiftly esp if you are lapping out climbs.

For example....in stock trail mode each time I have dropped to one red bar I have barely managed 400m up a track before it is completely dead. Despite the 630wh battery I have gone completely flat twice in less than 30ks of riding.

My advice is to tweak Trail mode, bring it down to the minimum you need for average climbs, dial back the aggressiveness of the ramp up, which will probably save a little battery too and keep Boost where you need it for the most extreme sections

Lastly motor rattle, I am fussy and and its a little annoying to consider the Merida E160 would be completely silent had they managed a better clutch solution. I can live with it but if there was an after market mod I will jump on it in a flash

 

[Rosemount]

The review is appreciated .
How much do you weigh kitted up ?
How much elevation in a session ?

 

[Mr Scooter]

The review is appreciated .
How much do you weigh kitted up ?
How much elevation in a session ?

Hi

95KG and 1000-1200m with the full power trail mode. 2000m in the lowest trail mode.
Someone has said 10% more range for each 10kg lighter. An estimate rather than any empirical test

 

[Rosemount]

Yep .
Pushing weight up hill takes energy . 1st saw the phenomenon on GMBN with Jonesy .

How fast you go up the hills also makes a difference . ie plod along steady uses a lot less battery than going as fast as you can . Voice of experience here . Thought it was amusing to wizz past a Levo SL up the hills . Wasn`t so fun riding home with no assistance ...

 

[Mr Scooter]

Yep .
Pushing weight up hill takes energy . 1st saw the phenomenon on GMBN with Jonesy .

How fast you go up the hills also makes a difference . ie plod along steady uses a lot less battery than going as fast as you can . Voice of experience here . Thought it was amusing to wizz past a Levo SL up the hills . Wasn`t so fun riding home with no assistance ...

haha indeed.

Main point of my post was to advise folk to dial back trail mode. Its deceptive in default setting. I think I will be able to almost double range in a low eco low trail configuration. Trail and track here are steep, no real forgiving climbs.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Great feedback.

I also noticed it going to red to dead in about half a mile. I was on the version before the app was released when I had the Merida so couldn’t examine settings.

 

[Mr Scooter]

Great feedback.

I also noticed it going to red to dead in about half a mile. I was on the version before the app was released when I had the Merida so couldn’t examine settings.

I suspect its a bit better with a tweaked trail. The Bosch probably doesn't last super long either when its under 20 percent in EMTB mode. Maybe Shimano are being a little cautious as to how low they are prepared to let things run, perhaps having a light attached alters the safety margins too?

 

[Rosemount]

You can see similar but opposite when charging .
1st bar of battery charges fast . Last bar takes much longer . The calibration of the charge displays are not real world . Or the discharge of the battery is not linear ?

 

[jimbob]

You can see similar but opposite when charging .
1st bar of battery charges fast . Last bar takes much longer . The calibration of the charge displays are not real world . Or the discharge of the battery is not linear ?

Part of that will be due to the way you charge lithium batteries. You slow the rate for the last 20% of charge down a lot.

With the last bar, representing last 20% of the battery, it will be holding back 5% or so for the reserve, which will also be why the last bar seems to go faster.

 

[ThierryGTLTS]

Don't forget that the last part of the charge is very often longer because the system needs to equalize the cells to have the same voltage.

For most battery chargers the equalize phase is done at the last part of the charge.

That's also the case with Spe chargers.

Have a Nice Day.

Thierry

 

[cole_inman]

Being able to adjust torque is the killer feature, and I wish they would bring it to the E8000. Before you say I should use STUnlocker. I did and my bike would turn on then immediately go off one day (at the trail of course), then magically fixed itself the next day. I upgraded to 4.9 firmware and kissed my lower torque trail mode goodbye. (Only using the ETube app for now)

 

[Mr Scooter]

Being able to adjust torque is the killer feature, and I wish they would bring it to the E8000. Before you say I should use STUnlocker. I did and my bike would turn on then immediately go off one day (at the trail of course), then magically fixed itself the next day. I upgraded to 4.9 firmware and kissed my lower torque trail mode goodbye. (Only using the ETube app for now)

Im finding with EP8 I am really reducing the torque. Its p[retty unnecessarily powerful especially in trail. Its currently 63Nm and Ill prob drop to 50

 

[cole_inman]

Im finding with EP8 I am really reducing the torque. Its p[retty unnecessarily powerful especially in trail. Its currently 63Nm and Ill prob drop to 50

50 was my sweet spot. Worked my legs enough to really feel it after a ride but I still blew through the climbs twice as fast. Made it feel more "real" in that when you hit a slightly steeper pitch, you get additional power from your legs instead of the motor.

My hope is that Shimano has an "EP7" in the works that's 40-50nm. Manufacturers have to be busting down Shimanos door asking for something to help them compete with the Levo SL. (Fazua motor has no penetration in the US market AFAIK) Although I could be wrong with that new Orbea that came out with the detuned EP8. Maybe Orbea really wanted to get the bike out during the COIVD bike boom. Who knows.

 

[Mr Scooter]

50 was my sweet spot. Worked my legs enough to really feel it after a ride but I still blew through the climbs twice as fast. Made it feel more "real" in that when you hit a slightly steeper pitch, you get additional power from your legs instead of the motor.

My hope is that Shimano has an "EP7" in the works that's 40-50nm. Manufacturers have to be busting down Shimanos door asking for something to help them compete with the Levo SL. (Fazua motor has no penetration in the US market AFAIK) Although I could be wrong with that new Orbea that came out with the detuned EP8. Maybe Orbea really wanted to get the bike out during the COIVD bike boom. Who knows.

possibly - But the ep is as light or even lighter than the spesh sl motor on the SL is it not? I think my partner needs an Orbea Rise....

 

[Norbici]

Would you say that EP8 is quieter uphill when pedalling than Brose or Turbo Levo SL’s Mahle?

Thanks!

 

[Norbici]

possibly - But the ep is as light or even lighter than the spesh sl motor on the SL is it not? I think my partner needs an Orbea Rise....

It is not.
Turbo Levo SL motor is 1.95 kg and the EP8 is 2,6 kg.
The battery is 0,2 kg heavier too