Mission Control REQUEST FOR “OVER THE AIR” FW UPDATE BETA TESTERS (Levo/Kenevo gen 2)

[Specialized Rider Care]

UPDATE: APPLICATIONS FOR NEW PARTICIPANTS CLOSED (30/09/2020)

Calling all Levo/Kenevo Gen 2 Riders, we will run Beta rider testing of “Over The Air” (OTA) updates for our Levo/Kenevo Gen 2 bikes from 12th to 30th October. Tests will include TCU and motor updates via Mission Control to the latest, as yet unreleased versions.

We’re looking for up to 50 riders to test OTA firmware updates of their bikes and report back on both the update process and ride experience after the update. Ideally this will take a maximum of 1 hour in addition to your normal ride-time, our aim is to validate our own internal testing with real-world feedback from passionate and discerning riders.

In order to join the beta-rider program you’ll need to own a Levo MY19-21 or Kenevo MY20-21 with TCU and 2.1 motor and ride regularly – if that’s you please contact us through direct message with the following information between 24th to 30th September (do not share personal information on the thread itself) -

1. Your full name (e.g. John Smith)
2. Your Mission Control email address (user name) caps sensitive (e.g. [email protected])
3. Your Bike SN (e.g. WSBCXXXXXXXXXXX)
4. Name/location of Local Bike Shop and approx. distance from you (e.g. Specialized Concept Store, Bristol, UK – 15 miles away)
5. Phone Hardware type and operating system (e.g iPhone 10, IOS 13.2)

To direct message us you will need to be a registered member and logged in. Click on the Specialized Avatar logo, a pop-up will appear and click on "Start Conversation" to send a direct message.

Allow us a few days to reply, we will contact participating riders and provide further information when the testing becomes available and if you have been chosen you will be added to a group thread where further information will be shared on how to conduct testing and give feedback.

Thanks for riding on this journey with us!

Specialized Team.

 

[Stompweaver]

Message sent. Sign me up! OTA is the way to go for the best end user experience.

 

[eagerly]

Two questions for @Specialized Rider Care:
1)What is the risk here? I mean, in case the OTA stops, for example for a connection lost, you brick the update and you are forced to go to your dealer? Or is there a rollback function?
2)What are you aiming here? To please your customers and avoid them going to dealers for the update, or have the possibility to issue updates and correct the bugs "using" your clients as testers? Has this anything to do with recent problems on motor and walk mode?
I don't know if OTA updates is really a plus here or not.
I know that Shimano, for saying one competitor, is doing it but with a lot of problems.
I prefer to make 1 update per year but iron tested by Specialized, than 10 updates OTA with a lot of bugs.

No offence intended just for sake of clarificating the reason of this campaign.

 

[Specialized Rider Care]

Two questions for @Specialized Rider Care:
1)What is the risk here? I mean, in case the OTA stops, for example for a connection lost, you brick the update and you are forced to go to your dealer? Or is there a rollback function?
2)What are you aiming here? To please your customers and avoid them going to dealers for the update, or have the possibility to issue updates and correct the bugs "using" your clients as testers? Has this anything to do with recent problems on motor and walk mode?
I don't know if OTA updates is really a plus here or not.
I know that Shimano, for saying one competitor, is doing it but with a lot of problems.
I prefer to make 1 update per year but iron tested by Specialized, than 10 updates OTA with a lot of bugs.

No offence intended just for sake of clarificating the reason of this campaign.

Thanks for asking @eagerly.

The primary aim here is convenience for our riders, many of you on this forum have said that it was either difficult to get to a retailer or you didn't buy from your local retailer etc - we've had this functionality for a while in engineering development but accelerated testing/rider development when we saw recent feedback.

We'll keep the exact details of update content and tests for those willing to participate, but it goes without saying that a) we've tested already and are satisfied that the process is robust and b) that any BETA user can roll-back firmware during the BETA test period.

Hope that helps.

 

[KeithR]

I look forward to this being rolled out to SL riders...

 

[hightower997]

Message sent. Sign me up

 

[EVILTaylor]

I look forward to this being rolled out to SL riders...

Agree - when it is count me in!

 

[CoreyB]

Agree - when it is count me in!

Same - I’m in.

 

[jaggysnake]

I'm in ill send info tomorrow

 

[lumpy]

I'm in too. Not worried at all as I know Specialized and my LBS have my back

 

[ImSundee]

When is the SL getting this love?

 

[awktm]

I look forward to this being rolled out to SL riders...

Agree

 

[Specialized Rider Care]

Calling all Levo/Kenevo Gen 2 Riders, we will run Beta rider testing of “Over The Air” (OTA) updates for our Levo/Kenevo Gen 2 bikes from 5th to 23rd October. Tests will include TCU and motor updates via Mission Control to the latest, as yet unreleased versions.

We’re looking for up to 50 riders to test OTA firmware updates of their bikes and report back on both the update process and ride experience after the update. Ideally this will take a maximum of 1 hour in addition to your normal ride-time, our aim is to validate our own internal testing with real-world feedback from passionate and discerning riders.

In order to join the beta-rider program you’ll need to own a Levo MY19-21 or Kenevo MY20-21 with TCU and 2.1 motor and ride regularly – if that’s you please contact us through direct message with the following information between 24th to 30th September (do not share personal information on the thread itself) -

1. Your full name (e.g. John Smith)
2. Your Mission Control email address (user name) caps sensitive (e.g. [email protected])
3. Your Bike SN (e.g. WSBCXXXXXXXXXXX)
4. Name/location of Local Bike Shop and approx. distance from you (e.g. Specialized Concept Store, Bristol, UK – 15 miles away)
5. Phone Hardware type and operating system (e.g iPhone 10, IOS 13.2)

To direct message us you will need to be a registered member and logged in. Click on the Specialized Avatar logo, a pop-up will appear and click on "Start Conversation" to send a direct message.

Allow us a few days to reply, we will contact participating riders and provide further information when the testing becomes available and if you have been chosen you will be added to a group thread where further information will be shared on how to conduct testing and give feedback.

Thanks for riding on this journey with us!

Specialized Team.

Thank you all for the large amounts of interest to participate in the Over the Air Beta testing. As we have now received over the planned amount of users we will no longer be accepting new applications.

A confirmation message and next steps will be sent out to all participants

Thanks, Specialized Team.

 

[Tim1023]

Thank you all for the large amounts of interest to participate in the Over the Air Beta testing. As we have now received over the planned amount of users we will no longer be accepting new applications.

A confirmation message and next steps will be sent out to all participants

Thanks, Specialized Team.

Please report the results back here! I'm sure that there are a lot of owners who would appreciate this once all the kinks have been worked out.
How long is the trial running?

 

[urastus]

Thanks for asking @eagerly.

The primary aim here is convenience for our riders, many of you on this forum have said that it was either difficult to get to a retailer or you didn't buy from your local retailer etc - we've had this functionality for a while in engineering development but accelerated testing/rider development when we saw recent feedback.

We'll keep the exact details of update content and tests for those willing to participate, but it goes without saying that a) we've tested already and are satisfied that the process is robust and b) that any BETA user can roll-back firmware during the BETA test period.

Hope that helps.

I think the primary reason for testing is testing. You're looking for guinea pigs and offering no protection for the testers. Saying that "any beta user can roll back firmware" is a hope; can you roll back a brick? I wish those who have signed up for this the best of luck.

 

[jsharpe]

I think the primary reason for testing is testing. You're looking for guinea pigs and offering no protection for the testers. Saying that "any beta user can roll back firmware" is a hope; can you roll back a brick? I wish those who have signed up for this the best of luck.

There is always a risk. Which is why I would imagine that one of the eligibility questions was how far the nearest Specialized shop was from you. Specialized has been very supportive for other issues. I would expect nothing different here. If I can help screen the new capability for potential problems I'm happy to do that since it will hopefully mean they could roll out the feature as solid as practical.

 

[eagerly]

There is always a risk. Which is why I would imagine that one of the eligibility questions was how far the nearest Specialized shop was from you. Specialized has been very supportive for other issues. I would expect nothing different here. If I can help screen the new capability for potential problems I'm happy to do that since it will hopefully mean they could roll out the feature as solid as practical.

That was very clear in the no-answer from Specialized. But I was expecting the possibility to roll back with a laptop version of the firmware and avoiding asking the lbs to do the job... So everyone could be eligible for the test and nothing to be scared about.

 

[urastus]

That was very clear in the no-answer from Specialized. But I was expecting the possibility to roll back with a laptop version of the firmware and avoiding asking the lbs to do the job... So everyone could be eligible for the test and nothing to be scared about.

being able to update via a download would be a lot safer. I wish shimano had this option. I'm never in a hurry to apply updates - if you look on download.com, quite a few bikes have been bricked.

 

[KeithR]

being able to update via a download would be a lot safer.

I'd surely agree with that - last year I bricked an expensive brand new camera when its first over-the-internet firmware update went wrong.

 

[Bigtuna00]

There's a reason the sign up steps ask for the name of your LBS. The LBS will have the dealer software and dongle for updating the firmware, as well as replacement hardware, in case of failure. This test isn't for people without LBS support.

I can't believe there is a need to say this but, if testing isn't convenient for you, then don't volunteer to do the testing... ?‍

 

[KeithR]

I can't believe there is a need to say this but, if testing isn't convenient for you, then don't volunteer to do the testing... ?‍

There wasn't a need. It's perfectly possible to be interested in the idea of OTA firmware updates and still recognise that they come with risks attached.

 

[salko]

But riding such bike also involves some risks of injury, but you are still riding it, right?

 

[urastus]

There's a reason the sign up steps ask for the name of your LBS. The LBS will have the dealer software and dongle for updating the firmware, as well as replacement hardware, in case of failure.

I never made that assumption; you might be right!

 

[urastus]

I can't believe there is a need to say this but, if testing isn't convenient for you, then don't volunteer to do the testing... ?‍

There wasn't a need You might be well aware of the risks, and that's awesome. Others may not, and this wasn't and hasn't been explained by specialized here.

 

[Bigtuna00]

There wasn't a need You might be well aware of the risks, and that's awesome. Others may not, and this wasn't and hasn't been explained by specialized here.

There aren't any "risks". That was my point.

 

[EME]

But riding such bike also involves some risks of injury, but you are still riding it, right?

OMG !!

False representation !

1815 Sale of Dreams Act!

I want my money back or at the very least 3 light years warranty.

errggghhh .. what was the issue again ?

 

[Specialized Rider Care]

UPDATE (05/10/2020)

Thank you to all who showed interest in joining the beta testing program, all participants have now received a confirmation message from us.

You will be added to a group thread within the next few days where further information on the program will be shared.

We look forward to working with you all.

Thanks, Specialized Team.

 

[Zimmerframe]

That's just misleading and wrong. Look at all the trouble giant owners have had with updates. And shimano with their ota has bricked quite a few bikes. Where did the term "brick" come from? So many variables - of course there's risk. Why would you make such a statement? Just applying an update is a risk, for anything (phone, computer, ebike etc). Why is specialized testing? Why does anyone test? If there is no risk just roll it out.

I think with anything like this there's always going to be some risk that somethings been overlooked - hence why we test things.

However, I think in this case, whilst the technology/ability has been there for some time, Specialized obviously decided not to implement it because they were no doubt worried that people might break/brick things. Also - with anything like this, once you open the software up to be able to update the firmware remotely using a third party device, it's easier for someone to hack the code and then theoretically start creating and downloading their own versions of the motor firmware - which will no doubt lead to broken motors.

One big difference to Shimano and Giants implementation is revealed in SRC's comment :

"We'll keep the exact details of update content and tests for those willing to participate, but it goes without saying that a) we've tested already and are satisfied that the process is robust and b) that any BETA user can roll-back firmware during the BETA test period."

This would suggest that because of the way the firmware is applied/installed, what it updates, it doesn't update/corrupt the equivalent of the "BIOS" (basic input output system) - the most simplistic bit of software/firmware running on the bike, which in this case also gives access to bluetooth. So if you do an update and it doesn't work for some reason - you haven't bricked the bike. You've just installed some faulty software on the motor or the install went wrong for some reason. Fortunately, you'll still have access to the bike via your phone/tablet so you'll be able to roll back the firmware update or update a different version. It does look like the roll-back option may be removed once this is out of beta, by then presumably they'll be confident they have a system which works properly and there aren't any ways for things to go wrong .. in theory

 

[eagerly]

I'm not sure rollback here means what you say. My interpretation is "you go to your lbs who connects the USB and reinstall the firmware". I think EBIKE does not work differently from other equipment, for example a firmware update on the smartphone. Since you overwrite the memory if you interrupt the process before the end, you brick the phone. But in a phone unless you are out of battery it's difficult because you have no control on it, it restarts and you wait until completion. Here, you still can use the phone, receive calls, or maybe be interrupted by the system or involuntary by the user, still there are dozens of phone models to cope with and thousands of users. Shimano made a disaster with Ota updates, and lesson is still to be learned. I'm not a fan of this, would prefer Specy gives me the possibility to download the firmware and upload it with my laptop. Very easy in 2020...

 

[jsharpe]

... I'm not a fan of this, would prefer Specy gives me the possibility to download the firmware and upload it with my laptop. Very easy in 2020...

While that would certainly be a powerful option, if it were offered I would also want the ability to do that with a Mac. It's annoying to have to dust off some old Windows machine just to run a piece of software. Many companies do it but IMO "Windows-only" is just as unnecessary and outdated as Android or iOS only.

I can guess that a couple of reasons why they are not are: 1) there is more that can go wrong when they don't control the entire sequence and allow the user/updater more access to the process. And 2) it massively opens up the system to reverse engineering and manipulation. While there is certainly some exposure with any user applied updates, attempting to retain reasonable control is understandable. Sure the current shop system is technically around, but there are legal and business motivations that are not present with end users.