Project to enable Bosch + Garmin integration

[Soarcer]

As the proud owner of a new Bosch-enabled ebike (Pivot Shuttle AM), I was disappointed to find it not being able to interop with Gamin devices. I've found lots of threads here and elsewhere on this topic, and agree with overall assessment that this is not likely to happen soon due to Bosch selling competitive display units. That said, after a brief investigation I've been able to monitor Bluetooth traffic between my phone and the bike and can already identify assist mode setting changes being broadcast so think I develop a more comprehensive solution here.

Ideally this would work natively from Garmin to Bike (like Specialized and many other manufacturers), but since the bike isn't broadcasting Ant+ it is less likely... possible solutions I've considered are
- Use a embedded microcontroller as a Bluetooth <> ANT+ bridge that supports the ANT LEV protocol for a just-works solution. Battery for this little guy would be something to manage, but the biggest issue would be pairing it with the bike since that seems to be a secure pairing with key exchanges etc. I don't know if that's possible to intercept & clone, am investigation
- A more likely solution would be to use a cheap spare Android phone, install the FLOW app to handle pairing (resolves / works around issue above) and then using a Garmin ConnectIQ companion app to rebroadcast relevant data over Bluetooth to a custom datafield on my Garmin device(s).

Here are the datafields I am hoping to implement (in priority order)
- Battery remaining
- Assist mode
- Power level (user - not sure if this is provided, but FLOW app shows something)
- Power level (motor - not sure if this is provided, but FLOW app shows something)
- Estimated range
- Cadence
- Speed (already have from Garmin GPS)

Any feedback & suggestions welcomed. Help likely also appreciated in getting reliable bluetooth data dumps with accommodating actual data (e.g. cadence, power levels, battery etc.)

 

[Jasong911]

As the proud and confused owner of a new Garmin 840, I applaud this effort as I quickly stopped mounting even my inexpensive IPhone 10 on my Shuttle AM’s bars. The flow app is just not good enough. Can’t provide anything other than moral support though.

 

[beutelfuchs]

That mess is the reason I'd not buy anything than Specialized with full Garmin support, as I want rider power to use for my training planning.

Ideally this would work natively from Garmin to Bike (like Specialized and many other manufacturers), but since the bike isn't broadcasting Ant+ it is less likely..

Garmins supports ANT+ and BLE.
Bosch has no BLE, just BT?
With BLE<>BLE you'd not need to care for pairing I think.

I would maybe look into trying to decode the signal on the cable connection between Bosch engine and display. With a bit of luck that's standard CAN. Reverse engineering CAN frames would be easy.
There are also contactless CAN clamps if you don't want to cut the wires.
Then maybe trying to find a linux compatible SoC with CAN and BLE/ANT support.
Then you'd need a bit of programming, housing and power supply...

 

[Shark58]

Bosch has no BLE, just BT?

Bosch uses BLE.

The problem is much more basic: Bosch simply doesn’t broadcast any relevant sensor data over BLE based on an industry standard format. They use a proprietary format which only their own displays can read and prefer cable connection over wireless.

 

[beutelfuchs]

The problem is much more basic: Bosch simply doesn’t broadcast any relevant sensor data over BLE based on an industry standard format. They use a proprietary format which only their own displays can read and prefer cable connection over wireless.

Yes, that's what the thread is about.

 

[Soarcer]

That mess is the reason I'd not buy anything than Specialized with full Garmin support, as I want rider power to use for my training planning.


Garmins supports ANT+ and BLE.
Bosch has no BLE, just BT?
With BLE<>BLE you'd not need to care for pairing I think.

I would maybe look into trying to decode the signal on the cable connection between Bosch engine and display. With a bit of luck that's standard CAN. Reverse engineering CAN frames would be easy.
There are also contactless CAN clamps if you don't want to cut the wires.
Then maybe trying to find a linux compatible SoC with CAN and BLE/ANT support.
Then you'd need a bit of programming, housing and power supply...

Great response, thanks!

Bosch has BLE, so that's not the issue - it's all about them not broadcasting data via Ant+ like Specialized and others so the Garmin devices (Edge and others) don't get all the nice e-bike metrics. Your proposed CAN solution would definitely give all the data, but I don't want to get into solutions that need additional hardware / wiring / power so it still seems like using a cheap Android device (old phone, something from Craigslist etc) would be the ideal proxy device to bridge from proprietary BLE to a custom Garmin datafield and/or widget. I can already get Assist Mode, and this week will dig into identifying the other datafields to use. If anyone is interested in being a future beta-tester, let me know.

 

[pinoymamba]

Kudos to you. I wish the best of luck.

I love the Bosch motor and before I pulled the trigger on my bike I was debating on getting the lesser Shimano motor just so I could use my Garmin

 

[maro200891]

Great project, I hope you can implement it well. I was very disappointed when I discovered that the Bosch integration with Garmin dont works. In my opinion it's unbelievable given the current state of technology. Therefore, I would be very happy if someone like you finds a solution to the problem.

 

[VWsurfbum]

Not sure how i could help, but happily be some sort of tester, as I cant believe it doesn't use Garmin.
Onething that I tried was using an old phone, but it needed to be a newer version of android, which I didn't have spare

 

[kasboh]

As the proud owner of a new Bosch-enabled ebike (Pivot Shuttle AM), I was disappointed to find it not being able to interop with Gamin devices. I've found lots of threads here and elsewhere on this topic, and agree with overall assessment that this is not likely to happen soon due to Bosch selling competitive display units. That said, after a brief investigation I've been able to monitor Bluetooth traffic between my phone and the bike and can already identify assist mode setting changes being broadcast so think I develop a more comprehensive solution here.

Ideally this would work natively from Garmin to Bike (like Specialized and many other manufacturers), but since the bike isn't broadcasting Ant+ it is less likely... possible solutions I've considered are
- Use a embedded microcontroller as a Bluetooth <> ANT+ bridge that supports the ANT LEV protocol for a just-works solution. Battery for this little guy would be something to manage, but the biggest issue would be pairing it with the bike since that seems to be a secure pairing with key exchanges etc. I don't know if that's possible to intercept & clone, am investigation
- A more likely solution would be to use a cheap spare Android phone, install the FLOW app to handle pairing (resolves / works around issue above) and then using a Garmin ConnectIQ companion app to rebroadcast relevant data over Bluetooth to a custom datafield on my Garmin device(s).

Here are the datafields I am hoping to implement (in priority order)
- Battery remaining
- Assist mode
- Power level (user - not sure if this is provided, but FLOW app shows something)
- Power level (motor - not sure if this is provided, but FLOW app shows something)
- Estimated range
- Cadence
- Speed (already have from Garmin GPS)

Any feedback & suggestions welcomed. Help likely also appreciated in getting reliable bluetooth data dumps with accommodating actual data (e.g. cadence, power levels, battery etc.)

Do you mind sharing details for your setup? And how to set up, though i will not be able to test it right away