Pole S-Onni (Sonni)

[jbodnar]

Rob, I love the outtakes in your new Sonni build video!

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

First day on Sonni. It was a great ride.

1 - Not a fan of the EXT 190mm. Maybe overwhelmed with 190mm travel on a 36mm chassis. Felt nervous. Damping was awesome, hard to use all the travel though, ultimately I took it off to directly compare it to the Boxxer
2 - Boxxer was so much better. I was much quicker on my runs, and felt so much safer out the front
3 - Bike geo is on point, and feels very different to Voima (357BB height with 200mm travel at dynamic sag point you're lower to the ground + shorter rear end)
4 - Mullet, give decent butt clearance on steeps, and probably helps with the cornering speed.
5 - EXT air shock is just "OK" - seems to get choked in the mid stroke around sag point, I expected it to feel a lot more supple. Will try a super deluxe coil next.
6 - Its way different in ride feel to Voima. feels closer to that of a 'traditional' enduro bike with massive travel (200mm / 200mm)
7 - Hayes Dominion brakes are awesome
8 - Shorter rear end and lower BB are very noticeable
9 - Still has the high anti squat, very little pedal bob when climbing
10 - the 'ballbag' disappears when riding, and at no point was I worried about getting it hit / hung up. You'd have to really be messing up to catch anything there, but time will tell.
11 - You need to add at least 30 minutes to your ride time because everyone wants to stop you and talk about the bike.

 

[Onetime]

Thanks for the update and quick review. I think you need the new 2025 gold Fox 40 and a matching gold X2 on that bad boy though Rob!

 

[jbodnar]

First day on Sonni. It was a great ride.

1 - Not a fan of the EXT 190mm. Maybe overwhelmed with 190mm travel on a 36mm chassis. Felt nervous. Damping was awesome, hard to use all the travel though, ultimately I took it off to directly compare it to the Boxxer
2 - Boxxer was so much better. I was much quicker on my runs, and felt so much safer out the front
3 - Bike geo is on point, and feels very different to Voima (357BB height with 200mm travel at dynamic sag point you're lower to the ground + shorter rear end)
4 - Mullet, give decent butt clearance on steeps, and probably helps with the cornering speed.
5 - EXT air shock is just "OK" - seems to get choked in the mid stroke around sag point, I expected it to feel a lot more supple. Will try a super deluxe coil next.
6 - Its way different in ride feel to Voima. feels closer to that of a 'traditional' enduro bike with massive travel (200mm / 200mm)
7 - Hayes Dominion brakes are awesome
8 - Shorter rear end and lower BB are very noticeable
9 - Still has the high anti squat, very little pedal bob when climbing
10 - the 'ballbag' disappears when riding, and at no point was I worried about getting it hit / hung up. You'd have to really be messing up to catch anything there, but time will tell.
11 - You need to add at least 30 minutes to your ride time because everyone…

Rob, did you try the new Vivid Air that came with the frame? Would love to hear your opinion.

Bought the Super Deluxe coil for my old Levo when it first came out…couldn’t find a cheaper coil with HBO…the price was right! I wonder how much better the newer model is.

Seems like the Sonni is steeper HA, slacker SA, shorter chainstays and wheelbase than Vioma…sort of would expect the opposite for trail/enduro vs DH model.

 

[Plummet]

Rob, I love the outtakes in your new Sonni build video!

Love the bloopers at the end... I have to admit I'm a bit envious of your full fruit builds that are WAY out of my price bracket.

 

[Plummet]

First day on Sonni. It was a great ride.

1 - Not a fan of the EXT 190mm. Maybe overwhelmed with 190mm travel on a 36mm chassis. Felt nervous. Damping was awesome, hard to use all the travel though, ultimately I took it off to directly compare it to the Boxxer
2 - Boxxer was so much better. I was much quicker on my runs, and felt so much safer out the front
3 - Bike geo is on point, and feels very different to Voima (357BB height with 200mm travel at dynamic sag point you're lower to the ground + shorter rear end)
4 - Mullet, give decent butt clearance on steeps, and probably helps with the cornering speed.
5 - EXT air shock is just "OK" - seems to get choked in the mid stroke around sag point, I expected it to feel a lot more supple. Will try a super deluxe coil next.
6 - Its way different in ride feel to Voima. feels closer to that of a 'traditional' enduro bike with massive travel (200mm / 200mm)
7 - Hayes Dominion brakes are awesome
8 - Shorter rear end and lower BB are very noticeable
9 - Still has the high anti squat, very little pedal bob when climbing
10 - the 'ballbag' disappears when riding, and at no point was I worried about getting it hit / hung up. You'd have to really be messing up to catch anything there, but time will tell.
11 - You need to add at least 30 minutes to your ride time because everyone wants to stop you and talk about the bike.

View attachment 138196 View attachment 138199

Yeah I looked at 190 ext and when i discovered 36mm stanchions i said NO!.... I have a 180mm fork 36 and the flex difference between that and the 38mm zeb was day and night. 36mm is too skinny for +170mm.

Have you tried mullet Voima? it would be interesting camparison. One of my big gripes with the voima is the stupid long chainstay. I would love it 10mm shorter.

Re the dangling motor. I tend to agree other than I ride over a lot of vines that can and do bounce up. So for me a dangling motor is a no go.

Re the ext air. I can't rave on long enough about my ext arma coil on my voima. My god is it good. I dont see the point in an airshock for a bike of this travel.

 

[Onetime]

Yeah I looked at 190 ext and when i discovered 36mm stanchions i said NO!.... I have a 180mm fork 36 and the flex difference between that and the 38mm zeb was day and night. 36mm is too skinny for +170mm.

Have you tried mullet Voima? it would be interesting camparison. One of my big gripes with the voima is the stupid long chainstay. I would love it 10mm shorter.

Re the dangling motor. I tend to agree other than I ride over a lot of vines that can and do bounce up. So for me a dangling motor is a no go.

Re the ext air. I can't rave on long enough about my ext arma coil on my voima. My god is it good. I dont see the point in an airshock for a bike of this travel.

I’m pretty sure more than half of the field on WCDH are on air shocks. It’s not the travel, it’s just a preference. But air shocks are more progressive, more adjustable and easier to add or remove air than to change springs. Also a little lighter too. I prefer air shocks, but different strokes for different folks.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

I’m pretty sure more than half of the field on WCDH are on air shocks. It’s not the travel, it’s just a preference. But air shocks are more progressive, more adjustable and easier to add or remove air than to change springs. Also a little lighter too. I prefer air shocks, but different strokes for different folks.

Here’s a breakdown from world champs 23 vs rampage.

Personally I’d take a coil over air only IF bike is suited for it. I like the sensitivity, mid stroke support and the grip levels I find are better than air on a like for like bike basis.

Coil vs Air - Rockshox Vivid and Super Deluxe Coil - Bikers Edge

Time to revisit the coil vs air shock debate. You all thought I got it wrong last time so we're back at it with a Vivid and Super Deluxe.

bebikes.com

 

[AdH]

Someone once told me on one of these ruddy BS forums that Rob knows what he is talking about. BS mostly. Turns out he is right this time. Sonni rocks

 

[Onetime]

Here’s a breakdown from world champs 23 vs rampage.

Personally I’d take a coil over air only IF bike is suited for it. I like the sensitivity, mid stroke support and the grip levels I find are better than air on a like for like bike basis.

Coil vs Air - Rockshox Vivid and Super Deluxe Coil - Bikers Edge

Time to revisit the coil vs air shock debate. You all thought I got it wrong last time so we're back at it with a Vivid and Super Deluxe.

bebikes.com

View attachment 138299

Well that settles it, I guess I’ll enter Rampage instead of the WC. Really though, I feel like air shocks are better for e-bikes because of extra weight of the bike and the air shock being progressive handles that better. Also because of the extra weight of e-bikes, the initial stiction of air shocks isn’t really an issue like it can be on a regular bike. But again, it boils down to rider preference. I love the X2 on mine, and since it was just replaced with a new 2024 X2, it’s even better.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Super Deluxe

 

[Plummet]

Here’s a breakdown from world champs 23 vs rampage.

Personally I’d take a coil over air only IF bike is suited for it. I like the sensitivity, mid stroke support and the grip levels I find are better than air on a like for like bike basis.

Coil vs Air - Rockshox Vivid and Super Deluxe Coil - Bikers Edge

Time to revisit the coil vs air shock debate. You all thought I got it wrong last time so we're back at it with a Vivid and Super Deluxe.

bebikes.com

View attachment 138299

Makes sense. Dh is about grip, crankworks is about pop and bottom.out

 

[Plummet]

Super Deluxe

View attachment 138314 View attachment 138315

That's more like it. Now go it some dh tracks with it.

 

[slickrock]

Looks impressive in downhill garb and hints to where things are heading with full power EMTBS.

 

[Onetime]

Looks impressive in downhill garb and hints to where things are heading with full power EMTBS.

I mean, it makes perfect sense. That’s what I wanted from the very beginning and it’s why I got my Voima and built it up with a 40. It’s a DH bike you can self shuttle and it pedals so efficiently and climbs so great, you can literally ride anything with it.

 

[Plummet]

I’m pretty sure more than half of the field on WCDH are on air shocks. It’s not the travel, it’s just a preference. But air shocks are more progressive, more adjustable and easier to add or remove air than to change springs. Also a little lighter too. I prefer air shocks, but different strokes for different folks.

If you like more pop then airshock.

You can argue that bottom out performance is moot now with hydraulic bottom out control on coils.

Foe me, I don't have a voima for pop. I have it to charge the gnarly. If I wanted pop I'd get a different bike. So.. . Coil is the way and the light for me.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

I mean, it makes perfect sense. That’s what I wanted from the very beginning and it’s why I got my Voima and built it up with a 40. It’s a DH bike you can self shuttle and it pedals so efficiently and climbs so great, you can literally ride anything with it.

I agree. on this bike you could use it to commute to work, go to the shops, do a 30 mile XC loop, an enduro, a road ride, a World Cup DH track (I’d maybe avoid some of the gaps and super gnar )

Ain’t many bikes that you’d want to do that with! It’s a special bike for sure.

 

[Plummet]

I mean, it makes perfect sense. That’s what I wanted from the very beginning and it’s why I got my Voima and built it up with a 40. It’s a DH bike you can self shuttle and it pedals so efficiently and climbs so great, you can literally ride anything with it.

Same. Though voima isn't the best on easy trails. There are better bikes out there for people that tootle easy tracks.

Ideally the perfect set up for me would be a meld between sonni and voima. Kinematics and and rear centre if the sonni mixed with battery location, on bike charging and bottle mount if thr voima.

 

[Onetime]

If you like more pop then airshock.

You can argue that bottom out performance is moot now with hydraulic bottom out control on coils.

Foe me, I don't have a voima for pop. I have it to charge the gnarly. If I wanted pop I'd get a different bike. So.. . Coil is the way and the light for me.

I actually don’t have mine setup to be poppy. I ride a lot of chunky stuff and I like to be able to plow it, so my setup reflects that. But because my bike is built up full 27.5 and a bit lighter than stock builds, it still handles jumps well and turns pretty quick considering how big it is, comparatively speaking.

 

[jbodnar]

Rob, will you still review the Sonni?

I would love to see it, even if I can’t get one.

 

[slickrock]

Pure irony: my Sonni finally arrived today.
View attachment IMG_0334.jpg

 

[Murphius]

Pure irony: my Sonni finally arrived today.
View attachment 138802 View attachment 138804

Lucky AF!

 

[Mossbeard]

Pure irony: my Sonni finally arrived today.
View attachment 138802 View attachment 138804

Oh wow, thats perfect timing lol
Actually makes me happy to think some oft the last ones must still be on their way to their (now) unsuspecting owners
Please post some pictures when it's up and running

 

[cyberpunx]

Rob, I love the outtakes in your new Sonni build video!

Too bad it's a private video now ...