Orange bikes with DJI

[Rockhopper70]

Cheeky suggestion you might be a member of the Yorkshire republican army. Orange are weird, they've stuck with a patently outdated design philosophy all the way to bankruptcy, relying on a dwindling band of hardcore fans. But any bike can break if it's abused hard enough, there's been loads of examples in here over the years, boycotting is a bit knee jerk on a single incident but reasonable if you see a pattern emerging. Canyon went through a spell of dodgy frames & tone deaf responses to the point that sales fell enough for the CEO to get involved & make promises to do better.

The Pivot thing was just a poor comparison, it was an iteration of a pre production bike, given to a handful of factory riders that was unlucky enough to come unstuck in the full glare of the mtb world but isn't representative of Pivot bikes as a whole in the slightest.

To a degree I am, they are manufactured less than five miles from me. I bought my son a used five, which is a decent bike. I want them to prosper, as it’s local jobs at stake, but they are crazy money and it must be hardcore fans that stick with them.
I think the manufacturing method they employ only really lends itself to single pivot, albeit they had a linkage driven shock on the “switch” I think it was.

Fair comment on the pivot, if they want to give me a SL-AM I’d not decline them.

 

[RustyMTB]

I want them to prosper

Me too, it's a storied brand & a great British success. I suspect at some level, there must be an internal debate around being caught between what they're famous for & where the rest of the market is going but presumably, sales are justifying the direction of travel.

Off the top of my head, Santa Cruz ditched VPP which was a huge part of the brand identity, I don't see why Orange don't follow & dip a toe in with a more conventional rear triangle & see where it takes them.

 

[mooby77]

The testerman? God no. EVERY BIKE IS BRILLIANT

yes that guys is a grade A ****wad, he lives off freebies , " his patter : if I had to spend my own money I would buy " well go on then drop some wedge

 

[Kitsan]

I'm keen to see how it rides, I would rather buy a UK bike than an Unno Mith but in reality I will buy the better bike in terms of performance.

 

[The undecided]

Huge thanks to you for sharing that my friend.Glad to see that the rumours were true!
Love it!

 

[charleyc]

Regarding the linked video: yes, any bike can break. Not only did that Orange bike break particularly catastrophically (in a situation where it really shouldn't have), but Orange handled it about as badly as possible: they didn't send Alex a replacement frame because he refused to take down his video of the crash.

There are plenty of bike manufacturers out there; we are spoiled for choice these days. Why would anyone give money to a company that treats is customers this poorly?

 

[Zero cool]

I like the look of that (not that I’m in the market for a new bike
For a while yet), it looks like an Alpine 160, not too boxy and with nice simple lines/silhouette. I loved both the look and the ride/performance of my 26er Alpine 160.
The smaller motor and Slimmer battery make all the difference.

I want a black one with red decals.

 

[The undecided]

The downtube looks slimmer than my Phase Evo Le
Wonder what the all up weight will be?
I’d like one in white with either black or orange graphics done discreetly-not overwhelming and decked out with silver and orange coloured Hope parts.
I honestly can’t wait to try one……
Let’s hope it’s priced sensibly

 

[Rockhopper70]

The downtube looks slimmer than my Phase Evo Le
Wonder what the all up weight will be?
I’d like one in white with either black or orange graphics done discreetly-not overwhelming and decked out with silver and orange coloured Hope parts.
I honestly can’t wait to try one……
Let’s hope it’s priced sensibly

Discreet you say, Oranges should be Orange!

 

[Doomanic]

In addition to being hideous, I can't imagine why anyone would risk buying an Orange bike after the Alex Anderson story:

He got fondled by a hot biker chick. Totally worth it.

 

[Chiefworm]

and? still just a 20 year old suspension design with a modern motor

Tell me you have never ridden an Orange without telling me you have never ridden an Orange

 

[Zero cool]

Never owned or ridden one. As I said. I'm sure they ride very well. It's just all those welded pieces, with all those exposed welds, makes them look like an old home built bicycle that someone knocked up in their garage.

Compare that to a modern carbon frame, which looks very sleek. But we all have different tastes.

I don’t really like carbon bikes, I have a YT Decoy MX, but am not sure how well it will hold up as Dartmoor is quite rocky.

Discreet you say, Oranges should be Orange!

View attachment 163114

I almost bought my Alpine 160 in Orange, but opted for it in pink instead. Back then I used to be fast and good enough to pull off a pink bike, now I’m older I don’t think I have the speed to do it.

 

[Astro66]

I don’t really like carbon bikes,

Either did I, till I owned one. I Just wrapped it in Invisiframe. I didn't add any padding to the underside of the downtube, and the invisiframe has prevented any damage from rocks being thrown up. The frame still looks brand new.

I really do now prefer the weight advantage of the carbon frame. Where I really notice this, is when I try to lift my 25kg Alloy Merida E160 into the back of the car. It's so much more of a strain.

 

[The undecided]

Discreet you say, Oranges should be Orange!

View attachment 163114

Here’s my Phase Evo nice and Orangey not exactly discreet lol.
Their frame silhouette screams Orange all by itself without complicated graphics

 

[mooby77]

Here’s my Phase Evo nice and Orangey not exactly discreet lol.
Their frame silhouette screams Orange all by itself without complicated graphicsView attachment 163134

if you're gonna go all out you may as well nice , one thing for sure you will never be missed in the forest

 

[The undecided]

if you're gonna go all out you may as well nice , one thing for sure you will never be missed in the forest

 

[Fangs2k]

Where I really notice this, is when I try to lift my 25kg Alloy Merida E160 into the back of the car.

Lighter alloy bikes are available…

 

[EnduroIntern]

In addition to being hideous, I can't imagine why anyone would risk buying an Orange bike after the Alex Anderson story:

After watching this, I wouldn't get one even if it had a rocket for an engine

 

[Kitsan]

Do we know if the person responsible for not working with the owner is still at Orange, as I dont think I would want to buy one either after thinking about it?

 

[Astro66]

Lighter alloy bikes are available…

Sure. But carbon fibre is stronger per gram. Meaning you can save 500-900 grams in the frame. Go carbon wheels and bars, and you'll have the same strength bike that's over a kilo lighter.

You can't beat the Physics of a material that is stronger for the same weight. I'm not getting any younger and EMTBs are inherently heavier than MTBs. I live in the centre of the city and need to transport my EMTBs to ride them. So finding ways to reduce weight, without compromising performance is going to increase my longevity in the sport.

Someone drove away tonight with the boat I built 6 years ago. Literally brought a tear to my eye. I loved that boat, but launching and retrieving that sort of weight, really started to detract from the boating and fishing experience. So lighter EMTBs, without performance compromise, will help in the same way, IMO.

 

[Fangs2k]

Sure. But carbon fibre is stronger per gram. Meaning you can save 500-900 grams in the frame. Go carbon wheels and bars, and you'll have the same strength bike that's over a kilo lighter.

Sure, but that’s moving the goal posts somewhat. Your example was ‘lighter than your other 25kg alloy EMTB’ and now you’re also bringing in carbon components, so you’re not comparing apples with apples.

Spend similar money on the alloy frame bike and the weight gap is not that large, certainly none of my alloy EMTBs weigh anywhere near that.

 

[Zero cool]

As I said above, I absolutely loved my old Orange, it was light, nimble and with a CCDB it performed as well as any of the other bikes I rode or raced against. In 7 years it never cracked, and I abused it so much.

My main worry with this one is that the extra weight of the battery and motor. And it’ll turn out the the balance and agility was what made it so good.

 

[The undecided]

As I said above, I absolutely loved my old Orange, it was light, nimble and with a CCDB it performed as well as any of the other bikes I rode or raced against. In 7 years it never cracked, and I abused it so much.

My main worry with this one is that the extra weight of the battery and motor. And it’ll turn out the the balance and agility was what made it so good.

I honestly wouldn’t worry about the extra weight affecting things too much.In fact the additional weight does boost confidence everywhere,
it’s not a bike journo myth.
If you like the brand, trust me having owned Oranges since 2008,an eOrange (EPO) will really transform what you thought they were capable of.
I went out for a ride on my pristine FOUR tonight which I had mothballed over winter and after 5 minutes riding I headed back to the car,it was THAT bad!
It felt as if both brakes were seized on
and was a surprising reminder of the effort needed to maintain momentum let alone accelerate.
Absolutely no contest with my SX powered Phase irrespective of it only having 55nm so an anticipated DJI model would be awesome to ride.
After tonight I will never go back to a non emtb no matter how otherwise capable it is.

 

[Astro66]

Spend similar money on the alloy frame bike and the weight gap is not that large, certainly none of my alloy EMTBs weigh anywhere near that.

Yes you can buy lighter Alloy EMTBs. But a manufacturer who's goal is to produce the best light-weight full power EMTB with 160/150 travel, is not going to start with an alloy frame. Yes they can produce a good riding EMTB in alloy. But when weight saving is your ultimate aim. Starting with Alloy already creates a disadvantage. So you find that manufacturers, when building their alloy framed bikes, saving weight becomes less important.

So manufacturers like Orange. To produce lighter Alloy EMTBs, tend to compromise on motor power and battery, like in their Phase Evo. They use a 55Nm motor, and 400wh battery to produce a 19.5kg 160/150 EMTB. Whilst other manufacturers are producing EMTBs in Carbon frames with 120Nm motors and 600wh batteries in 160/150, but are lighter than the Phase Evo.

And that's my only point. If you want the best of both worlds, being lightness and full power. You will do best to look at carbon framed EMTBs. But if the weight doesn't matter, because of how and where you ride. Then any frame material will serve you just fine.

 

[Fangs2k]

And that's my only point.

Which is a completely different point to the one you were making about how much lighter carbon frames are, and how you really notice the difference when lifting your boat anchor of a 25kg Merida into your car…

My point was the Merida is a heavy alloy framed bike, others aren’t, and design for design and spec for spec a carbon frame saves a couple of pounds on average, hardly massive.

The new Orange (and what this thread was about) with the DJI setup won’t be as heavy as your Merida, the Avinox motor and 600Wh battery weigh about 1.4kgs more than the Bosch SX and 400Wh battery in the Phase Evo LE so complete bike weight should be around 21kg.

 

[mooby77]

reported , first availability will be September for the DJI powered Orange , full specs to follow soon I assume.

 

[Astro66]

Which is a completely different point to the one you were making about how much lighter carbon frames are, and how you really notice the difference when lifting your boat anchor of a 25kg Merida into your car…

My point was the Merida is a heavy alloy framed bike, others aren’t, and design for design and spec for spec a carbon frame saves a couple of pounds on average, hardly massive.

The new Orange (and what this thread was about) with the DJI setup won’t be as heavy as your Merida, the Avinox motor and 600Wh battery weigh about 1.4kgs more than the Bosch SX and 400Wh battery in the Phase Evo LE so complete bike weight should be around 21kg.

I thought I was having a discussion with zerocool about carbon Vs alloy because he said he didn't like carbon. And I agreed with him till I owned a carbon framed bike, because carbon frames are lighter. That is the post I quoted. I used my personal experience as an example of where weight made a difference.

So to reiterate. I changed my mind about carbon framed EMTBs because in the same spec as an alloy one. They will be lighter. That's it.

 

[Fangs2k]

I thought I was having a discussion with zerocool about carbon Vs alloy because he said he didn't like carbon. And I agreed with him till I owned a carbon framed bike, because carbon frames are lighter. That is the post I quoted. I used my personal experience as an example of where weight made a difference.

So to reiterate. I changed my mind about carbon framed EMTBs because in the same spec as an alloy one. They will be lighter. That's it.

Maybe, and they’re also stronger yet weaker at the same time. You’re posting on a public forum, it’s not a private conversation.

Your comment amounted to ‘I really notice the difference between carbon and alloy when I lift my really heavy alloy framed bike into my car, which is not as light as my carbon one’.

Brilliant! Are you going to tell us next that ursine creatures defecate in heavily forested areas, or the pontiff has a balcony?!

No thoughts as to any other material differences on how they ride?

I’m guessing you’ve never ridden Dartmoor, @Zero cool will be talking endless loose rocks, some of them pretty big, and it’s also a fact that whilst carbon might be lighter (let’s put aside the weave and the resin used) than alloy, it’s also less resistant to impact shocks.

It just is, so I can see his concern there.

 

[Fangs2k]

My main worry with this one is that the extra weight of the battery and motor. And it’ll turn out the the balance and agility was what made it so good.

If it doesn’t make other bikes with the Avinox system ride like pants, then I see no logical reason as to why it would make the Orange automatically a bad bike, so I wouldn’t worry too much.

 

[Astro66]

it’s also less resistant to impact shocks.

Yes. I use a very high quality protective film on my carbon bikes. Seems to give great protection from impacts when riding the very rocky Majura Park. Sounds similar to Dartmoor.

Your comment amounted to ‘I really notice the difference between carbon and alloy when I lift my really heavy alloy framed bike into my car, which is not as light as my carbon one’.

I notice lifting heavier things is harder. Perhaps gravity works different in Dartmoor.