New Bosch Tour+ mode officially launched

[Akelu]

what If I bought my bike online, and the shop is 4 hours away?

The only way you can get this update is by taking your bike to any bosch certified store that has the bosch software on their computer.
You don't need to take it to the place you bought it from.
Some stores will do it for free, some will charge. Most will do it for free if you ask while they are doing unrelated work on your bike (ie you take it in to get a cassette fitted, ask them to to the update and good chance they will just do it for free).

 

[nixo]

Any ideas how Tour+ differs from what Moustache/Trek developed? EMTB-Lite sounded perfect and this sounds a lot like it, but not sure how similar it is.

 

[sunstoner]

I do like the idea to be able to add it as a 5th power level then you can select what you when you want it....its all about the options.

Me too. Why not. Give us best of both worlds.

Ive never used EMTB and I just like knowing where im at. I dont want the motor to be dipping into Eco type assistance when riding on flat nor do I want it reaching for Turbo either.

If I was to get Tour+, id end up using Turbo way more. Tour is a nice balance of economy and performance for me.

 

[sunstoner]

Hang on so what range is emtb? If this isn’t eco/tour then tour+ sounds like a game changer, the lower cadence power is way to much torque at times compared to something like the Shimano which is nice and progressive (on the rise)

I believe Tour+ is Eco to Turbo. EMTB is Tour to Turbo.

 

[Iggy_BBR]

Been riding the new Tour+ mode for the past week, IMO, I find the support not overwhelming compared to the EMTB mode. For example, I was climbing a hill in Tour+, it basically felt almost natural (underwhelming, if that makes sense), as if I was under my own power. Compared to EMTB on the same hill, it was stronger as if the bike is being pushed up. Personally, I'm a fan of the EMTB when it was introduced, since I could feel the difference on the mode. When EMTB-Lite, I was a fan of that, since by then (I assume from having more experience riding an eMTB) I would find EMTB too strong (wheel slippage on rocks and roots) on some trails and I would switch down to ECO or TOUR. So with the new EMTB-lite, I did less switching between three modes and focus on the ride. I'm still getting use to the new Tour+, but I do like it, so far.

The other thing about the new Tour+ mode, I think it works really well for anybody rides with a steady pedaling cadence versus anybody who has a choppy pedaling style (but I could be wrong).

 

[Akelu]

Been riding the new Tour+ mode for the past week, IMO, I find the support not overwhelming compared to the EMTB mode. For example, I was climbing a hill in Tour+, it basically felt almost natural (underwhelming, if that makes sense), as if I was under my own power. Compared to EMTB on the same hill, it was stronger as if the bike is being pushed up. Personally, I'm a fan of the EMTB when it was introduced, since I could feel the difference on the mode. When EMTB-Lite, I was a fan of that, since by then (I assume from having more experience riding an eMTB) I would find EMTB too strong (wheel slippage on rocks and roots) on some trails and I would switch down to ECO or TOUR. So with the new EMTB-lite, I did less switching between three modes and focus on the ride. I'm still getting use to the new Tour+, but I do like it, so far.

The other thing about the new Tour+ mode, I think it works really well for anybody rides with a steady pedaling cadence versus anybody who has a choppy pedaling style (but I could be wrong).

So the EMTB-lite, thats just on Treks isnt it?

How does it work in terms of which modes are loaded at the same time? I know you can load tour+ and emtb at the same time, but where does emtb-lite fit in? Is it tour or tour+, and sport or emtb or emtb-lite?

 

[Iggy_BBR]

So the EMTB-lite, thats just on Treks isnt it?

How does it work in terms of which modes are loaded at the same time? I know you can load tour+ and emtb at the same time, but where does emtb-lite fit in? Is it tour or tour+, and sport or emtb or emtb-lite?

Yes, EMTB-lite is only on Trek, not sure if tis possible to other Bosch based bikes. The different Tour modes can't be all loaded at once, you have decide which mode you want. At the moment, there's three mode options to choose from: (standard) Tour, EMTB-lite (Only on Trek), and Tour+ (I assume its the same as Magic Tour for Mustache). As far as Sport and EMTB, Sport is non-variable, versus EMTB variable mode. EMTB-lite replaces (standard) Tour on Gen4 motors providing 140-240% assist, while EMTB provides 140-340% assist.
Some of modes are only available is certain combos. For now, I really like the new Tour+ mode, I really need to ride some trails for a better feel. The EMTB-lite mode, does a good job as a lighter version of the standard EMTB, which can be switch too, if more power is needed.

Currently my modes are: Eco, Tour (Tour+), EMTB, Turbo
Previous modes installed: Eco, Tour (EMTB-lite), EMTB, Turbo
Original modes installed when I purchased my Trek bike: Eco, Tour (standard), EMTB, Turbo


Performance Line CX:

Performance Line CX – The highest performance eBike drive

The best eMountain bike experiences: a powerful drive with unique dynamics and the best possible traction on trails thanks to the 85-Nm Performance Line CX.

www.bosch-ebike.com

Bosch FAQs:

Help Center

www.bosch-ebike.com

 

[Andrewscube]

Hi went out for a ride today and when I finished my kiox said update available install now, so I did. I now have some new software on the kiox screen. I have a small circular power needle next to the mode and I have also got the tour+ function.
Tour now feels like a turned down power version of emtb. Well happy I wanted this function and was planning on booking in to the LBS to be done.
Anyone else had this download via kiox.

 

[cshumphries]

Yes, EMTB-lite is only on Trek, not sure if tis possible to other Bosch based bikes. The different Tour modes can't be all loaded at once, you have decide which mode you want. At the moment, there's three mode options to choose from: (standard) Tour, EMTB-lite (Only on Trek), and Tour+ (I assume its the same as Magic Tour for Mustache). As far as Sport and EMTB, Sport is non-variable, versus EMTB variable mode. EMTB-lite replaces (standard) Tour on Gen4 motors providing 140-240% assist, while EMTB provides 140-340% assist.
Some of modes are only available is certain combos. For now, I really like the new Tour+ mode, I really need to ride some trails for a better feel. The EMTB-lite mode, does a good job as a lighter version of the standard EMTB, which can be switch too, if more power is needed.

Currently my modes are: Eco, Tour (Tour+), EMTB, Turbo
Previous modes installed: Eco, Tour (EMTB-lite), EMTB, Turbo
Original modes installed when I purchased my Trek bike: Eco, Tour (standard), EMTB, Turbo


Performance Line CX:

Performance Line CX – The highest performance eBike drive

The best eMountain bike experiences: a powerful drive with unique dynamics and the best possible traction on trails thanks to the 85-Nm Performance Line CX.

www.bosch-ebike.com

Bosch FAQs:

Help Center

www.bosch-ebike.com

View attachment 66879

How is battery usage compared to EMTB-lite on the Trek Rail?

 

[Doomanic]

I consciously used EMTB-Lite yesterday. I was actually doing a range comparison to Shimano Trail mode but it was interesting that I rode all day without needing EMTB or Turbo. However, on one hard climb I tried flicking between modes while pedaling at a constant force and cadence and I couldn't feel any difference between the modes.

The Bullit didn't do so well, despite being lighter and having a larger battery...

 

[Zimmerframe]

flicking between modes while pedaling at a constant force

Equivalent to a sparrow landing on a pedal ?

 

[Doomanic]

Hi went out for a ride today and when I finished my kiox said update available install now, so I did. I now have some new software on the kiox screen. I have a small circular power needle next to the mode and I have also got the tour+ function.
Tour now feels like a turned down power version of emtb. Well happy I wanted this function and was planning on booking in to the LBS to be done.
Anyone else had this download via kiox.

Motor firmware updates are only available from LBS. The update you have downloaded for the Kiox functionality only and doesn't effect motor performance.

 

[Clubby]

what If I bought my bike online, and the shop is 4 hours away?

My local service centre quoted £15 for a software update.
Personally, I’m another rider that doesn’t want to lose the standard Tour mode. I like the consistent output on tricky climbs. Emtb is good on steep stuff but I don’t like the way power dips and rises on tech features. Also feel the extra boost can push the front wide in tight switchbacks. Tour makes it much easier to judge pedal strokes on step ups etc.

 

[Gyre]

I decided to try out Tour+ after all and went for a short ride today after having it flashed yesterday. I would have loved it as a replacement for eMTB but as a replacement for Tour I'm just not sure. The low end does feel a bit like Eco, and like eMTB, you can feel the assist really ramp up when you stomp on the pedals, but is that really better? It might be harder to have any finesse getting over tech when the motor torque is on a sliding scale.

Anyhow, this was just one ride so we'll see. I'll repeat a ride with a known battery consumption and another with more technical climbing. It may be that I just need some time to adjust. I wish I could see the assistance ratio numerically displayed on the Kiox in real time. It would offer some point of reference.

On a related note, on both eMTB and Tour+, you need to set your crank length and can choose a torque cap of 75 or 85N-m. I chose 75 for both cases to avoid excessive battery consumption. I figure I'll leave the full 85 for Turbo mode.

 

[The Hodge]

I decided to try out Tour+ after all and went for a short ride today after having it flashed yesterday. I would have loved it as a replacement for eMTB but as a replacement for Tour I'm just not sure. The low end does feel a bit like Eco, and like eMTB, you can feel the assist really ramp up when you stomp on the pedals, but is that really better? It might be harder to have any finesse getting over tech when the motor torque is on a sliding scale.

Anyhow, this was just one ride so we'll see. I'll repeat a ride with a known battery consumption and another with more technical climbing. It may be that I just need some time to adjust. I wish I could see the assistance ratio numerically displayed on the Kiox in real time. It would offer some point of reference.

On a related note, on both eMTB and Tour+, you need to set your crank length and can choose a torque cap of 75 or 85N-m. I chose 75 for both cases to avoid excessive battery consumption. I figure I'll leave the full 85 for Turbo mode.

Surely the low end feeling a " bit like eco" ..is because it is eco ?..
Thats why it falls down for me ..I dont want to lose Tour as it is right now..
Look forward to reading further reviews though ?

 

[Gyre]

Surely the low end feeling a " bit like eco" ..is because it is eco ?..
Thats why it falls down for me ..I dont want to lose Tour as it is right now..
Look forward to reading further reviews though ?

I know that the Bosch chart says that Tour+ starts at 60% just like Eco, but my experience was that it gives a little more power than Eco even when soft-pedaling. ?‍

 

[sunstoner]

Ive just dropped the bike in for a service and told them not to bother with the tour+ update.

Although he did say that update wasnt available yet. Im fairly sure hes wrong on that given what ive read above but as its his job and the fact I didnt want it anyway I wasnt about to question it.

 

[Gyre]

Although he did say that update wasnt available yet. Im fairly sure hes wrong on that given what ive read above but as its his job and the fact I didnt want it anyway I wasnt about to question it.

From reading the various forums, I gathered that each dealer downloads the latest update from Bosch servers (which in hindsight, of course that makes sense) so it's not like this rolls out piecemeal to the dealers. Every dealer should have it so long as they have a working Internet connection and can be bothered to fetch it.

 

[Gyre]

Just got back from my "battery consumption test loop". ~35miles, 5656ft elevation gain, Tour (Tour+) mode the entire time with Turbo on the last climb out of the arroyo.

My impressions:

- Climbing in low gears and low cadence, it seems like fluctuations in your pedal torque sometimes get more accentuated with Tour+. Sometimes it even felt like I was riding an ovalized chainring. The effect isn't as bad as it sounds in writing and it's not always there, but I wasn't aware of it with the old Tour.

- I couldn't find any level of pedaling torque that was exactly equal to Eco. There was always a noticeable difference.

- I got into a groove with it at one point where I was turning 90-100rpm and 91-94% Max HR, and it flattened the slope holding at 11-14mph uphill. It was very flattering, like having a siren whispering in my ear, "Oh my! Look how fast you are! All that carbo-loading must have really paid off!". Very addictive. I felt much fresher at the later checkpoints than last time as well. I can see this really spoiling you for acoustic bikes, so that's a real concern.

- However, near the top of the mountain on the return trip, the battery indicator turned yellow, and once I cleaned the last climb it was an angry red I've never seen before. The jig was up. That sweet spot where it held good speed was (no real surprise) burning up the battery faster. Simple napkin math says I went through 760W-h today, where the last ride was 692W-h (i.e. 10% more consumption for an equivalent ride). I'd say that's a pretty significant difference, but not quite as bad as I feared.

- This mode does make sense for someone who wants to park it in one mode and forget about it - a hell of a lot more sense than eMTB.

Final notes:

- I had a couple small/accidental deviations from the prior test loop. Last ride was 0.65 miles longer. This one was 40feet more elevation gain.

- I had read that only the 2022 Kiox will actually display "Tour+" on the screen. Mine is 2021 and does not. If you said that the mechanic maybe was gaslighting me and the difference was all placebo and inconsistent riding style, it would be hard to prove otherwise. I noticed some small changes to my Kiox display, so I'm pretty sure at least something was updated even with the most cynical presumptions. Also, a 10% difference in consumption isn't overwhelming, but it seems enough to suggest a material difference.

- I sound like a broken record, but I really wish we could have Tour+ in place of eMTB instead of Tour.

- Assuming Tour+ is about the same, I'd say that Mustache's claim that MAGIC TOUR uses a few percent less battery than standard Tour "depending on conditions" is really presuming "conditions" with very tame climbs.

- I have my Tour+ torque capped at 75N-m. Anyone configuring their Tour+ to cap at 85N-m should expect a bigger increase in consumption than I did doing a comparable ride.

I'll visit a local trail that I use as a benchmark for techy climbing soon and see how I get on with it.

 

[1oldfart]

When you are riding, if we do not count the walk mode, how many
different modes can you select from?

 

[Gyre]

When you are riding, if we do not count the walk mode, how many
different modes can you select from?

Four plus OFF: Eco, Tour+, eMTB, and Turbo.

 

[1oldfart]

Four plus OFF: Eco, Tour+, eMTB, and Turbo.

With Yamaha/Giant we have 6 and obviously off.
Levels 1 to 5 and auto.
It is easy to select, i have no clue why people are so focussed
on some magic auto mode. Just go for more range or more assist
then use your transmission like any other bike. I do not use a display
i just pedal like we did 50 years ago. I smile and recharge.

 

[Hamina]

With Yamaha/Giant we have 6 and obviously off.
Levels 1 to 5 and auto.
It is easy to select, i have no clue why people are so focussed
on some magic auto mode. Just go for more range or more assist
then use your transmission like any other bike. I do not use a display
i just pedal like we did 50 years ago. I smile and recharge.

Try the Bosch one day and maybe you then feel the difference.

 

[Gyre]

i have no clue why people are so focussed
on some magic auto mode. Just go for more range or more assist

There are conceptually good reasons to use both strictly linear and these big S-curve modes. The former has a very simple relationship between input and output, giving you better control of torque and battery consumption, and the latter gives you access to a wider dynamic range without constantly clicking up and down.

 

[1oldfart]

Try the Bosch one day and maybe you then feel the difference.

I would like to try a Bosch but with Covid it did not happen. Here in Quebec
Canada it is limited. Haibike is not distributed so i buy Giant because it is
affordable and i trust Yamaha and Bosch for reliability wich is # 1 for me.
It seems Bosch is more expansive but at least it would offer me more
bike options to choose from. Maybe a nice Efatbike will be my next purchase?

 

[Hamina]

On flat asphalt the Tour+ feels same as ECO. I switched between the modes 5-15 times back and forth and only OFF and EMTB made clear difference on torque.

On steep hills switching to EMTB or TURBO makes also difference. Really hard to tell the difference to EMTB Lite more that the Tour+ feels sometimes more assistive.

Nyon or Kiox could tell the real watts from motor.

 

[Flyfisha]

I have had the ( Australian 25 kmph )upgrade for a fortnight. It has just replaced MTB with the word sport . There is supposedly a lower output at slow cadence using the equivalent of eco. A small change in how one of the displays is shown is included. It now has a circular display instead of a bar graph showing your input in the top left hand corner. The display is nothing special.

edit to add.

On steep hills the new sport mode ( old MTB mode ) does not assist as much as turbo. Changing between the two it’s quite noticeable.

 

[Gyre]

I have had the ( Australian 25 kmph )upgrade for a fortnight. It has just replaced MTB with the word sport . There is supposedly a lower output at slow cadence using the equivalent of eco.

"Sport" is a linear mode which should always give you more assistance than Eco and Tour until you hit a torque or power cap

A small change in how one of the displays is shown is included. It now has a circular display instead of a bar graph showing your input in the top left hand corner. The display is nothing special.

If you mean the "analog needle" in the upper left of the main speed display, that should be your current speed relative to your average speed.

 

[Flyfisha]

"Sport" is a linear mode which should always give you more assistance than Eco and Tour until you hit a torque or power cap


If you mean the "analog needle" in the upper left of the main speed display, that should be your current speed relative to your average speed.

Perhaps the Australian update that is for a bike limited to 25 km per hour is different to what is available in some countries?

 

[Gyre]

Perhaps the Australian update that is for a bike limited to 25 km per hour is different to what is available in some countries?

It seems very unlikely. This picture gets thrown around a lot, but my impression that this is a reasonably good representation of the modes regardless of the cutoff. eMTB-lite and Tour+ should be similar to MAGICTOUR, but may have a different curve in the same ballpark.