New Bosch Torque Update V Amflow

[Bomble]

With the new 120nm Bosch update coming, it looks like the motor will remain at 750w.
If a 120/ 750 Bosch and a 120/ 1000+ Amflow both set off at the bottom of a steep hill and started climbing as fast as possible, how would the smaller wattage manifest itself.
Where would it lose ground?

 

[JP-NZ]

Where would it lose ground?

The whole way up if rider for rider are equal. Watts (power) IMHO are more important than torque.

1000/1200/1300/1500 avinox are way more powerful than 750

 

[irie]

If I rode my trusty Aprilia SXV550 up the hill bet it would get to the top first.

 

[drive2race4fun]

This seems like a bunch of teens discussing how much power different BB guns have. If you want to shoot sth, get a gun. If you want to go fast uphill, get a good dirtbike.

Btw I ordered the new px pro, but I couldn’t care less if anyone is faster uphill with another motor. I bought this bike because it makes my hobby even more fun. And next year it’ll do the same for me, even when all of you ride around in your 2000W 32” Specialized bikes…

 

[Suns_PSD]

If I rode my trusty Aprilia SXV550 up the hill bet it would get to the top first.

OT: I always wanted one of those set up as a Motard but I ran KTM's instead.

 

[Bomble]

The point wasn’t really which is fastest, I wanted to understand the difference the wattage or torque makes in a real world scenario.

 

[drive2race4fun]

The point wasn’t really which is fastest, I wanted to understand the difference the wattage or torque makes in a real world scenario.

At the beginning there wouldn’t be any meaningful difference, probably also not when doing small technical climbs, but as you get faster the additional power will make a difference.

But again what are we talking about? Even a little basic sur ron would leave all those bikes for dead. The more powerful sur ron (and we’re still talking about an electric dirt bike, nothing fast) is in a different universe

 

[ZR1]

power determines the speed that can be maintained going up the hill, torque is the shove you feel when you accelerate

 

[bmwpowere36m3]

Torque is the force and Power is work performed (or energy) over time. Torque you'll feel instantly and power is what will determine how quickly you climb said hill.

The two go hand-in-hand as far as an electric motor (e.g. torque X cadence = power).

 

[Bomble]

At the beginning there wouldn’t be any meaningful difference, probably also not when doing small technical climbs, but as you get faster the additional power will make a difference.

But again what are we talking about? Even a little basic sur ron would leave all those bikes for dead. The more powerful sur ron (and we’re still talking about an electric dirt bike, nothing fast) is in a different universe

First bit is helpful, second bit you’re barking up the wrong tree. I don’t care which is fastest and obviously they are all slow in real terms. I was just using the hill race as an example to understand where the power difference of the 2 bikes would take effect.

 

[mctubster]

If it’s a long climb and it’s hot out at some point both engines will derate or even error out because they are unable to dissipate the waste heat at those power levels.

 

[Evelhornet]

 

[zizajaun]

AI slop:

 

[Yeungster]

This EMBN Video covers differences quite well

 

[emtbPhil]

In very simple terms - the 120nm is the amount of force the motor can apply
So setting off will be the same. If you ride up a steep climb at a very low cadence, slowly, both motors will apply the same force so it'll be just as "easy" for you to pedal

The watts part is how much cadence it can do - so the 1000w will allow you to bounce off the limiter pedalling as fast as you can up the hill, whereas the 750w will taper off

If you want assistance to get up steep climbs because you're a big lad - like me - then they're equal
If you want to wheelie up climbs at 15mph - then the bosch won't do it

 

[AndyWhyte]

If I rode my trusty Aprilia SXV550 up the hill bet it would get to the top first.

Great bikes but I've never heard them reffered to as "trusty"

 

[irie]

Great bikes but I've never heard them reffered to as "trusty"

Because never opened/messed with the engine and also changed both engine and gearbox oil every 200 (max) miles never had any problems with mine or the wife's. Had another as a race bike which unsurprisingly did shit itself after turning up the rev limit.

 

[AndyWhyte]

If I rode my trusty Aprilia SXV550 up the hill bet it would get to the top first.

Great bikes but I've never heard them reffered to as "trusty"

Because never opened/messed with the motor and also changed the oil every 200 (max) miles never had any problems.

Thats good and a very rare example. Hope it stays that way as parts availability is pretty hit and miss now.

Im still running 2 strokes off road.

 

[irie]

Great bikes but I've never heard them reffered to as "trusty"

Thats good and a very rare example. Hope it stays that way as parts availability is pretty hit and miss now.

Im still running 2 strokes off road.

Sold both of them recently, have several pairs of Alpina wheels and carbon (Dymag custom) wheels and loads of spares that need to be sold. Even have a complete 550 engine in new parts but was unable to find a new 550 crankcase. And a couple of frames etc.

 

[ZR1]

If you want assistance to get up steep climbs because you're a big lad - like me - then they're equal

A heavy rider needs more power to get the same riding experience uphill as a light rider on a 750w so get the most benefit from the extra power. I'd say its only equal for the lighter riders who pedal uphill at the limiter anyway.

 

[emtbPhil]

A heavy rider needs more power to get the same riding experience uphill as a light rider on a 750w so get the most benefit from the extra power. I'd say its only equal for the lighter riders who pedal uphill at the limiter anyway.

I'm comparing between 120nm/750w and 120nm/1000w - not heavy rider with 120nm vs light rider with 120nm - that's a completely different thing.

 

[ZR1]

I'm comparing between 120nm/750w and 120nm/1000w - not heavy rider with 120nm vs light rider with 120nm - that's a completely different thing.

Just trying to make the point it's misleading to say they are equal because the torque is the same, the 1000w will maintain a higher speed uphill. if a 750w hits a wall at 10mph a 1000 will go 13mph

 

[Lee Dove]

I won't bother updating 100nm is fine with me .

 

[TonTonUB]

Power or torque is nothing. It's how they are delivered.
And since the avinox has the 'hall effect sensor' on the rear wheel (not the bosch) ... hem ?
Smooth, supple, progressive, ultra reactive with no 'kick' nor 'turbo-slap' effect : avinox will be hard to beat WITHOUT the same level of precision at the rear wheel (the motor know where the wheel is 42 times per rotation, but also if it accelerates, brakes, remain at the same speed, in combination with pedal sensor, torque sensor, acceleration sensor etc inside the motor).

The power contest by amflow is only a trap, where lazy companies will fall, and fail.

In 2027, the surprise could come from the the shrink node. Imagine avinox releasing something like the ZF or the maxon ? But as a complete ecosystem (thin battery, etc), with 100 Nm, 800 W peak power and the same level of refinement ? Game over.

 

[wvridgerider]

OT: I always wanted one of those set up as a Motard but I ran KTM's instead.

I once was going to idle my 525xc up a single track hill to upset the guys with KOM's, they were asses but I was nice and didnt do it.

 

[Mario Antony]

If I rode my trusty Aprilia SXV550 up the hill bet it would get to the top first.

I love when Aprilia owners say:
"Trusty" & "Aprilia" in same sentence. LoL!
Had 1... and it was the 1st and last Aprilia in the garage.


For thoses measuring d!cks up a gravel road, just grow up and learn actual technic.

 

[irie]

I love when Aprilia owners say:
"Trusty" & "Aprilia" in same sentence. LoL!
Had 1... and it was the 1st and last Aprilia in the garage.


For thoses measuring d!cks up a gravel road, just grow up and learn actual technic.

Not like you to miss the point of a post.

Oh.

Bless.

 

[Mario Antony]

IF both bikes are limited to 25km/h

Strongest rider will win if HE/SHE can accelerate faster up to speed limit.
Then it's a matter of maitaing rider power at speed limit, or past it (which I doubt you can...).

If both ebikes are unrestricted, then Avinox will take the win, with the 1.000W power [1300W M2 or 1500W M2S+700Wh battery].

Does Avinox have the overun?

 

[wvridgerider]

AI slop:

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Sounds like how far an unladen swallow can carry a coconut. Ebikes can be techy I guess

 

[Johneracer]

The point wasn’t really which is fastest, I wanted to understand the difference the wattage or torque makes in a real world scenario.

Torque is twisting force of the motor. Watts are power available to the motor from the battery. If the motor is not getting enough watts, it can’t maintain max torque. As motor speed increases, it needs more watts to keep making 120nm of torque. In your scenario a 1000w Ebike would pull away because that motor can keep delivering max torque while your motor keeps making less torque because it’s only getting 750w of electricity. I’m generalizing but that’s the gist of it. Increase in torque without increase in wattage is nothing burger. This is purely Bosch having impressive numbers that don’t translate to anything in the real world.